Well, last Tuesday while I was at work, my mom and dad decided to let Kieron outside to have a run. Now, some of you aren't going to like this, but please don't say anything about it because this is the only training method that has worked with Kieron. I have trained Kieron to wear an electric collar. She wears it only when she is out to run. While we don't have a fenced in yard and there are no parks near me, she is allowed to run off leash around my yard with her collar on. Yes, my Siberian husky runs off leash. Yes, she has a wonderful recall so long as she has her collar on. I don't even remember the last time I had to actually use it on her because she has learned to come when called. Anyways, again, please no nasty comments on electric collars. You have to admit that if used correctly, this training tool does wonders.

On with my story, my dad had the collar on Kieron and was standing outside with her while she ran around, getting her exercise. Well, Kieron started to run down the hill towards our neighbors house. My dad called her back, but she didn't respond. So he sent a warning to her. (A warning on the collar is just a quiet tone without a shock. To shock the dog, the tone is made and is then followed by the shock, teaching the dog that the tone is followed by the shock. The dog eventually learns to do as told with only a warning, no shock at all.) When Kieron didn't respond to the warning, he pushed the button to shock her. The collar didn't work. Kieron continued down the hill and into our neighbor's yard. My dad was running after at this point.

My neighbors own a senior blue heeler bitch. Kieron decided to pick a fight with her. Dad said that he could see her as he was running. He said that Kieron simply ran over to the sleeping heeler bitch and started barking and growling. The heeler bitch responded by fighting back. By this time, my dad had reached the two fighting bitches and seperated them. He held Kieron's collar and walked her home.

This has nothing to do with the e-collar, just figured I'd say that it didn't work so that you all wouldn't wonder why Kieron got away from us.

My question is this. Why did Kieron fight the heeler bitch? I know that two bitches together isn't always a super great thing to do. But how come Kieron gets along fine with her 10 month old daughter? Surely Kieron doesn't recognize that little Hoona is her daughter, does she? So why would she get on with Hoona and just all of a sudden pick a fight with a senior heeler bitch that was peacefully sleeping in her own yard?

Before you ask, the collar has been taken care of and works now. It was running a low battery and so wasn't responding to the remote's signals.

Why did Kieron do this?

Kieron is a 2 year old spayed red and white Siberian husky bitch.

-Tara

Hi

I know you dont want to hear negative comments about e collars, so I'm not going to go on about how disdainful I, and alot of other people think they are.
I have a gsd girlie, I have had her from 7 weeks, if you have the time and patience, MOST dogs can be trained without e collars, hitting, violence etc., etc.,  I have had no experience my self of training dogs, I only watched my mum, from a very young age train them.
If you show patience, trust and loyalty to a puppy onwards, I truly believe this is what you will get back.
Your question was about a bitch attacking another bitch, well in doggy world, this can be quite normal, just because your dog does not attack one related to it, doesn't mean a thing. They just happen to get on with one another, simple as that.
I am no dog expert, and I'm sure people on this site that are far wiser than me, may be able to give you better advice, as they have done for me in the past.
I wish you luck and advise you to read on dog behaviour books as they can be a great help.

You might think it has nothing to do with the collar - but maybe she has learnt that other dogs mean she's going to get shocked?  It may also be down to poor socialisation, or even a displacement activity - she didn't know what else to do when she had her freedom in a place she's not accoustemed to, and for want of anything better to do - she picked a fight!

It could be a number of things, as mentioned lack of socialisation, and yes, the presence of another dog = shock. It does happen although supporters of the collar never admit it. I know of a case where a dog was attacked and killed by a dog wearing a shock collar  :( due to the other dog being given an unexpected shock on a high level. The dogs were in a van. I believe that although this type of punishment seems to work, there is always some sort of fallout at the end of the day. Also you say your sibe responds when she is wearing the collar - but that isn't really the case, as she was wearing the collar but still chose to run off.

I think it is great that your girl runs around and has some freedom, but maybe it would be good to look at other ways of getting her exercised and also socialised...problem is that (I'm guessing here) if your sibe has not been socialised and only met a very few other dogs, there may be problems. In the UK sibe owners do racing and so on with their dogs...its excellent because the dogs are doing what they have been born to do.

Lindsay
x

Maybe your dog DID receive a shock not enough to stop her dead but, enough to shock her all the same, and the attack on your neighbours dogs was the result of 're-directed aggression'.  It can happen that a dog who is frustrated and aggreived by one set of circumstances turns and takes frustration out on the nearest thing (animal) it can.

Humans do this too.  You may not be able to smack your boss in the face if he is being extremely rude and unreasonable but you do, as a consequence, go home and kick the door, scrub the floor or take out your frustration in some other way.

I'm sure you don't want negative comments about using an e-collar but I'd bet this monstrous contraption had a part to play especially as it's use, as you've found,  is not foolproof.

Well, thanks for the advice. I am completely considering your cause/effect theories conserning Kieron's collar and her picking a fight. I thank you all for not assuming that I am a bad owner just because I use an e-collar on my dogs. That's what I was afraid of, being told off just because you all don't believe in a certain thing that I believe truely works. Anyways, I will pass on your suggestions to my dad, who has been curious ever since this happened.

I guess I forgot to mention a couple of things, though. Kieron has never been shocked when meeting a new dog. Never. She is only shocked when she doesn't respond to being called back. (Example; she starts to run into the next door field full of cows and doesn't respond to my calling her back. She gets a shock and then turns around and comes back for a game of "catch me if you can" with lots of praise for coming back.)

Also, this little heeler dog that she fought with, she has tried to pick a fight with before. There have been times when the little heeler will walk up the hill where Kieron's territory is and will find Kieron and try to sniff her, resulting in Kieron attacking. This actually has happened 3 times. (No, my neighbors obviously don't fence their dog in. The little senior doesn't even wear a collar, either. :( )

Could this possibly change the reason Kieorn might have attacked? I seriously say to you all assuming that new dog= shock. How could it? I always let her meet new dogs and have never, ever shocked her for sniffing and saying hello.

Thanks again everyone for the great advice. Thanks also for, once again, not telling me I'm a bad owner just because I use a certain training method. I'm not a bad owner. :)

Just wondering, is it not possible to put up a fence so that the collar isn't neccessary?

I have always wondered why so many dog owners in US have dogs and unfenced yards.  Is it that they aren't allowed fences around their property.  I would find the lack of privacy and security unacceptable myself for a start.  Surely anyone owning a dog needs to ahve a dog proof garden.

A lot of the time they are not allowed to fence their own property. :( Seems very harsh to me. :(

Putting up a fence is not an option. Believe, I've tried to get my family to work on one. The reasons are various, I won't go into them. So nope, no fences.

"A lot of the time they are not allowed to fence their own property.  Seems very harsh to me."

Haven't heard that one before. There are height restrictions is some places due to the visibility from the roadway....for safety reasons for drivers, or a rare occasion in a housing developement where the homeowners association may have some convenants and restrictions. But as far as in general.....nope.

Fences are very expensive and ugly sometimes. I happen to have 5 acres and a fantastic mountain view which I'm not about to mess up, plus my pasture is down below my house and it's rather a picturesque outlook. I am surrounded by thousands and thousands of acres of forest service land that goes on clear into the next state and up to Canada. I do have a few neighbors on my gravel road that I live on.....just a few and some more people a few miles away. There's hardly a need to have a fence. That's my situation. I know if I lived in town, a fence would be a must. But the U.S. is BIG, HUGE and there are a lot of places where people have a lot of land, well away from other people. Not everywhere is all jammed up. But there are cities and towns which, if I had to live right in the midst, (God forbid) I'd put up a fence.  

Carrie