Hello! My dog is now so strong that she almost pulled me over today! So I have invested in a "dogmatic" collar. It's a bit different from a halti as it is made in real leather. I tried walking her around the block with it & it seems quite good> But when we got back she had a ridge around her muzzle & most of the time on the walk she was trying to paw the thing off! Has anyone any experience of these collars & how longdoes it take for the dog to become used to it?

Hi,

I use 2 Haltis but they have a very soft piece of leather almost like velvet under the noseband piece which cannot be seen I find one dog adapted very quickly the other intially tries to paw it off stil lbut once were really on our way he doesn't bother with it.It taken him a few months.However I don't need to use the Haltis on the way home just normal collar and lead.They are just always in such a rush to get where they going ,once there they are fine:-)
You may need to persevere a little longer.

Briony:-)

Hi,

Have used the Dogmatic too - but oil it thoroughly first!  It is not a soft leather initially but will improve dramatically if oiled.  I soaked mine overnight and it was better but then did it over again and it turned out great.  One point worth mentioning - the strap which holds the lead ring can (in some breeds anyway) be caught in your dog's mouth.  EG. if he's sniffing at something and you walk ahead of him the under-chin strap ends up at his mouth level and can prove dangerous - so check the length of it before messing about with the Dogmatic and that way if it's too long they'll be able to alter it for you within their guarantee.

When the leather is sufficiently soft it should not mark his muzzle at all - are you sure you have sizing correct?

Teri 

Hi Teri,
Someone suggested using baby oil to soften the leather! The size 3 that I have bought seems to be the right size I think it's just the rigidness of the new leather that is marking her muzzle. Took her to the park today again today & she seems to be getting used to wearing it----although at times she looks like a dancing pony!        It's only on outward journeys to walks that I have problems with pulling 'cos on the way home it's usually me pulling her! I see what you mean with the ring although I have been attaching that ring to her collar with her lead! I take the dogmatic off when we get to the park 'cos she look like a nasty dog with a muzzle when it's on! I'm thinking of renaming her Hannibal {Lecter}  

Dear guest ,

  Instead of buying aids to help your dog walk nicely could you perhaps  enrole her on a training class and learn to teach her to walk nicely? - just a thought!

Hi Sugar,

This is a great piece of equipment for anyone who has genuine difficulty in restraining their dog - of course it is NO substitute for training but some owners of larger breeds may themselves have back/leg/shoulder etc problems which either temporarily or permanently make the initial walking of an exuberant dog difficult for them.  It's also an excellent head control for anyone with a dog prone to lunging out unexpectedly - and let's face it, not everyone can cure that problem - look how often we see it at dog shows!!!!

PS.  I don't have any connection with that company - just hands on experience of the product which in itself is an excellent training tool, look up their website and see for yourself :-))

Teri 

Basically any oil works to soften the leather - even cooking oil <LOL> - although good old saddle soap, elbow grease, leather balsam etc are probably more correct methods :-)

Re. attaching the headcollar lead ring to her ordinary collar - watch that one, as it will cause strain on the neck or worse.  The whole idea behind the Dogmatic is that the loop under the chin is free to loosen off when the dog is walking sensibly - by connecting it to another collar the nose band will be permanently pulled down on the muzzle and this will cause discomfort and no end of frustration.

Teri

Sugar, training classes, whilst very good are not the be all and end all when it comes to lead training. My two have been to classes since they were pups, and they are now 2 1/2 and 15 months. THey do really good heelwork no probs but when it comes to walks they just get so excited that they forget all their training, so headcollars come in useful so that you are all safe. On the way back they are fine, so they do know what to do.

Your problem Lucyand meg is that you probably never done whet I do until my dogs are trained for normal walking is train in the street-sure Joe Public thinks I'm mad but I don't care. I do all of my private & pre class training off lead so my dogs want to be with me then I class train & public train on lead(for obviously safety resons) Having dogs already focused on me off lead does make the on lead training easier ;)

Lucyandmeg ,  i only suggested training classes because they seem to be the ' in ' thing at the moment. I went to classes when we first had Rosie and to be quite honest didnt think much of it! Since then all her training has been by us at home / on walks etc  and she is now a gentle well behaved dog who i am pleased to take anywhere! She does have her mad moments and enjoys her games , walks , visits etc like all dogs but she doesnt drag me on a walk or go bowling over kids in the park ( for example! )
I understand halti and gentle leaders are good for people who may have large strong breeds but in my view if you teach them from puppyhood then most of the time there shouldnt be problems when the dog grows up - exceptions obviously taken into account ( rescue dogs , sudden behavioural changes , change in family circumstances etc )
   

I had to smile Sugar at the mention of classes being all the rage

I had a lady contact me about training classes & advised her of the nearest one, she went with her large strong GSD puppy on a halti. She was told they were not allowed & told to buy a choker from the club(she refused) & was not allowed to train. on the way out the trainers were bringing in their dogs all on haltis a case of do as i say & not as I do

The lady then had some one to one from me as we are friends & yes I let her use the Halti until she had the confidence to use the same collar I use on my dogs(normal buckle collar)on it's own. I normally do not train people but did it as a favour, she did her homework each week & had the pulling sorted after 4 weeks. He now wears only his collar & no more pulling

Oh i certain have tried training outside too. People must think i am mad stopping everytime they pull, but it doesn't seem to stop the enthusiasm though. My BC has always had problems from day one. She was terrified of traffic and so pulled because of this. 2 1/2 years/lots of socialisation and training later, the car problem is better (although she went through a stage of lunging at cars) but the pulling is now a very ingrained habit. I have tried all the usual methods but they just don't seem to work on a mad border collie. She even tried to pull on the halti, but at least she doesn't pull me along too! Any suggestions most welcome.

When I say training outside I mean obedience style rather than obedient dog style training Slight difference. I used to take my titbits & tuggy toy & trained on I must admit quieter streets like I would train for competition Aiming to get 100% concentration on me from my dog. Add to this that all my private home training is done off lead means that I have to work harder & my dog wants to be with  me-I'm not alone doing all private training off lead-some top trainers train this was & the only time their dogs work on lead is in the novice class in competitive obedience(they are of corse on lead at other times just not trained on it)

Oh right i see! Yes i must agree it is always good to train obedience style outside too. SO many dogs are excellent inside but completely nuts outside! I think training heelwork off lead is a very good idea, otherwise it is easy to rely on the lead. I think i am going to have to do some more training outside.

Well, Luke still hate his dogmatic - and seems to be hating it more as time goes on! And, yes, I have softened it with oil and saddle soap - all to no avail. So, we persevere with walking backwards,round in circles etc etc. Last night at training classes - outside because it was so hot - he walked round like an angel - but then I slipped on the grass & ended up on by bottom ....:D :D :D. So he can do it - just chooses not to most of the time...