Hiya
Its my own fault for singing praises a few weeks back when I thought we'd overcome so many hurdles. We still have, in a way, but we are really concerned that our girl is getting nervous again. Tonights walk being the cause of writing this. She walks over BT and other manholes and past wheelie bins etc that she used to find traumatic, with no problem now. However...she's starting to get startled again if someone comes out of their house, if a passing car is playing music, if children are on skate boards....and the worse being tonight....when she refused to walk past 2 men merely leaning against a wall quietly minding their own business. She 'about-turned', completely freaked out and pulled hard on her lead to get away. These were the things that we thought we'd overcome 5 months or so ago. (She's 12 months old now).
To help you can judge where we are going wrong, what we have been doing over the past 4 days during this time is just asking her to sit until she's calmed down or the offending car/person etc had gone away. We only say 'good sit' and nothing else. After she has sat for a few seconds...she has been fine and we have been able to continue on the walk. However, with the gentlemen tonight, I felt the need to turn round and walk in the other direction a few yards and I then asked her to sit with no problems at all. On this occassion, the few seconds of sitting didn't work and we had to continue in the sit position until the had actually got in their car and drove off.
I know its hard for you to advise me when you're not there to witness it, but I have tried to say it 'like it is'.
I really would appreciate your comments/ thoughts/critisisms on where we are going wrong. I'm taking her nervousness very personally in the form of my failings.
Thank you ever such alot
Jo :)
ps In the last 4 days - Rosie has also decided that she is scared of plastic supermarket carrier bags also?

Hi Jo,

I've not seen your earlier post re this display of nervousness but think it's significant that you recitified or at least improved the behaviour a few months ago and it has resurfaced at 1 year.  Young dogs, of both sexes, are going through major hormonal changes at approximately 6 monthly intervals and stress during these times can easily trigger nervous behaviour - often to things which we mere mortals can't begin to comprehend!

I'd advise that you continue with the regime which you have currently found success with BUT under NO circumstances add pressure to your youngster at this time.  Don't attempt to introduce anything new to your usual routines or even tweak them.  Hopefully you will find that over the next few weeks as the hormones settle again, so too will much of this renewed anxious behaviour.

Good luck, and keep working calmly with Rosie.

Thank you ever so much for your response Teri. It seems I've certainly misunderstood literature I've read & thought she should have been over her 'fear periods' now - was obviously very wrong. I shall do as you say.
Kindest Regards and thanks again :)
Jo
<<<<who obviously wasn't at all calm when typing my 1st post, judging by my grammatical and spelling errors - sorry)  :O 

My retriever was very similar, She suddenly became nervous when she hit a year. My trainer informs me that there is another fear period at roughly a year to 15 months, although it is not so bad as the earlier ones i think with a dog that is already a little nervy it can r worse. Ellie is 15 months now and seems to be just as bad, her hormones are all over the place as she is going through a false pregnancy, so i am hoping that this is the cause. Has your dog had her season yet? Ellies behaviour deteriorated 3 days before she came into season
I understand what you mean about not being calm though, i have found it almost soul destroying. I was so careful about socialising ellie, and yet now she has become a barking and growling menace, tonight she let me down completely by barking at some children. Time for some intensive socialisation i think!

I think it would help to teach her to focus upon command on you more. AND....to associate these things that she is uncomfortable with something good rather than teaching her avoidance of these things by turning and walking away. I would suggest having some very special treats in your pocket and every day practicing with her. It will take time and dedication. But get her into a situation where she is not too close to something that upsets her, but some distance away. Later, you can practice with these things closer.

When she makes eye contact or alerts to that thing that you think she will be nervous about, get her to look at you and give a treat. When she looks back again at that thing, again, use her name and try to get her to focus on you....again pop a treat in her mouth. Soon, she'll look at that thing she's worrying about and then look at you. Again, pop a treat. Eventually, she'll be looking back and forth at the "offending" object, then back at you....reward. This should teach her to focus on you at these times of stress and at the same time these worrysome people, dogs, whatever will be associated with pleasure. I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into the fear period thing at this age, at lease insomuch as avoidance in hopes that she'll outgrow it. I'd get on it and start conditioning her.

Carrie

Carrie- No matter what fear period a dog is going through, you shouldn't avoid what they are scared of, be they puppy or adult, however it does help the owner to understand that there may be an underlying reason otherwise, the owner ends up feeling like a failure.  

I can almost totally agree with both Carrie & Lucie/Meg's advice except that it is essential to differentiate whether you are pressing on with desensiting an existing fear reaction compared to a seemingly new fear reaction.

A young dog that is afraid of a small number of specific situations / objects etc but is nevertheless showing signs of improvement should be kept working towards overcoming their nerves by gentle and consistent habituation.  However it is CRUCIAL to advoid NEW problems which may provoke a nervous response.

IMHO adding pressure at a sensitive stage in your dog's hormonal changes will lead to an adult dog that is not merely scared of a few specific situations but one that is scared of life in general - a far greater problem and distress for both dog and owner alike!

We only fail our dogs when we fail to attempt to help them by exploring every avenue.  Hopefully Jo's posting will attract a variety of diverse opinions and methods which will help in the long term.  Just please - for Rosie's sake - don't rush things, particularly in her pubescent stages. 

Teri 

Lucy, I agree. That's what I meant by the part of the statement........ (at least insomuch as avoidance) In other words, even though they may be afraid of something or are going through a fear period.....gentle, gradual exposure with you as an anchor....ie: the teaching to focus on you while getting a treat needs to be continued.

But be careful to try and intercept before the full blown reaction from the dog occurs so as not to be rewarding for that. You don't want to associate the treat/praise with their reaction, but instead, with the ability to begin to accept and deal with what it is that's making them nervous. Yes, they do have their fear times and we don't want to make it worse or discount them. That's why it's good to expose them to whatever it is they're afraid of, but from a sizeable distance....just enough so they see the thing, but it's not in their face.

I have people that will come up to my Dobe and shove their hand out close to his face. He's not a Labrador Retriever. He's by his nature suspicious of strangers at first. They want him to be friendly and like them right off the bat. It irritates me. He backs up a few steps....no aggression....yet, that is. He doesn't like his personal space encroached upon. So, I try and intercept and tell them to wait and let him come to them, if he chooses...that he's not that into strangers. So, that's a bit of a fear thing I guess. He doesn't look afraid...just more like, "hey bucko....back off. I don't know you and I don't have any affection for you at this time." LOL. He's had mass amounts of socialization so that can't be it. They are different from many breeds and this is my first Dobe. So, this situation is slightly worrisome to me. It could be that he's still a pup. I hope it doesn't mean inherant bad temperament. I have always felt like he had a great temperament. After a couple minutes, he's great and likes to be fussed over by strangers. If people come to my house that he doesn't know, within a minute or two he's quite a pest for affection from them. He just needs a couple minutes to assess anyone new. With people he already knows, he acts like they're his long lost relatives. So....?????? I don't know how to habituate him to that because I am not so sure he SHOULD have to be accepting of that pushiness from strangers. I think it goes against his breed's nature. So, if anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. That is if no one minds me butting into this thread.

Carrie

Hi there
I too am experiencing the same problems that Jo Basset has been having  My dog is  a 1yr 6 month old jack russell bitch called Jude , everything was fine til she turned a year old then  everything seemed to scare her from  ice cream vans to shadows  even when I bring out the ironing board she runs and hides I too tried sitting her down and waiting til she calmed down a bit I stopped saying that she was a good girl as I was told that gave her praise for being scared .I dont want to have to end up taking Jude to a dog behavioural psychologist
I use rescue remedy  in her water which someone had suggested to me which sort of helped but not completely. I did post my problems  under a different name. My mum has Jude's sister and she has no problems wotsoever . So  any help or remedies  would be appreciated
Fortuna

Hiya
Thanks ever so much for your suggestions and advice. Yes - Rosie has had her season LucyandMeg - she just got clingy and off her food a bit. I'm luck that I can remain calm at the time...its just after the event that I let myself think about it too much and start worrying excessively :rolleyes:
You made a good point Carrie, about focusing more on the command training - with regards to drawing her attention to me rather than the offending 'object'...although I don't usually rely on food for training purposes...she is very much food driven so could possibly try using this theory throughout this time.
I agree completely with Teri about differenciating between desensitising 'renewed' issues and not placing any pressure on her during 'new' issues. For instance...I pulled out a cucumber from a shopping bag and she ran off - petrified....I came home with a brown paper bag (takeaway) and again she ran off....these are examples of 'new' issues that I have not responded to, or inflicted upon her purposely. However, the 'renewed' issues of the wheelie bins and people in the street is when I will just stop when she does...if she voluntarily sits, then fine...she tends to have the time to suss it out and normally gets up to carry on walking with no instruction from myself at all.
I would reiterate that to Fortuna who is also looking for advice like myself. The 'sit' is voluntary on her part - but if she carrys on pulling in the other direction - I continue with her when it comes to 'new' fear factors. (I can't bring myself to deliver 'firm' instruction when she's scared) Not only is the sheer nature of the breed extremely stubborn, but she was particularly nervous when we took her in at 5 months old. I really don't want to risk making unnecessary setbacks in what we've already acheived.
We have no problems at all with her being nervous with other dogs and visitors...and she experienced thunder and lightening yesterday for the first time and never bat an eyelid....much like her lack of reaction to fireworks!
We know we are so very lucky, which in turn makes these fear characteristics even more upsetting and, as one of you rightly said, if not careful, it can knock confidence. However, we have found the feedback on this site has enabled us to do the best we possibly can and appreciate this alot. Level headed feedback inspires confidence in itself - so thank you again.
Jo
:)

Hi Jo,

Great to hear that things are looking brighter for you both :-)  It's easy to forget that hormones affect our dogs as much as they affect us!!!!  Keep yourself focused on all the positive sides of Rosie's character - some youngsters are terrified of strangers (people or dogs) and many dogs of all ages can't handle thunderstorms or fireworks - so she's doing pretty good already :o)

You're doing her proud,  Teri  

Thanks Teri..........you're right ;)

hi Jo Basset

I am glad I am not the only one that has this problem  so much so that I actually started a thread myself I have read up on stress and panic attacks in  dogs and one of the things I read  was the sitting til the thing passed it mainly I think to give the dog time to calm down  but in my case this didnt work lol  I try  not to introduce new fears for my pup but it is a worry  when you feel that you cant go out for a walk  in case they start acting up  as for the food treats I can see that working perhaps for a little while but then you have to think of the health issues in  that respect if it was my dog I would need a wheelbarrow ful of treats to give her and then  she would end up overweight I take her ball  and try to distract her that way  but if they are stressed out  I find that nothing works or is it I may have a stubborn  dog lol who  thinks " I am outta here I not walking passed that or you can  go  but I am staying right here or if  you think I am going past that  you have another thing  coming " LoL  Jude ( jack russell) is a very friendly little dog  loves to socialize with humans and animals alike  wouldnt have her anyother way. Jude's sister is the complete opposite  nothing really seems to phase her and she too is friendly she just plods along while Jude goes into orbit I try to soothe her and calm her down not by  saying things like  " awww baby " but firm and gentle Jude likes to go walks  but I  sense that  she is stresssing herself by the way  she pants  and the tongue is out  a sure sign  of stress  I found this out on a canine stress  site  lol  Dont know if any of this is relevant  but thought I would just share my  views Hope you dont mind  lol

Hiya Fortuna
Don't mind you sharing your views at all :)   Clever aren't they?...sitting when they choose to let the problem pass them by....and... sometimes not, depending on the level of threat. Another thread talks about shorthand used on vetinary file notes, one of which says DMITO (Dog more intelligent than owner!!)...I'd say that should be written on many dogs files (no offence intended to anyone other than myself really!) :D
I agree with you about the treats out on walks too...I used them a little while training to heel...but had a 1-2-1 trainer who didn't recommend it either. Very useful for enforcing lapses though I suppose. Although, with the problem we are having at present, when they do react so badly to a situation, I don't even think the treats will distract them. (Taking some out tonight-just in case) The theory that Carrie suggested to concentrate on command training is certainly more beneficial.
I haven't got to the stage were I'm reluctant to go on the walks...I tend not to think about it...perhaps with the attitude that I don't actually envisage anything is actually going to happen. When it does...I'm actually quite nonchalant (sp?) at the time...its when I get back home and think about it that I start to perhaps over analyse. I must admit to watching/staring at her more than when we first had her. Very much into watching her body language....this is when I picked up her 'voluntary sits'.....your book was right...she chooses to do this to regain calmness. Like yourself, I don't 'soothe talk'...I just start talking about the ironing, weather and her favourite toy etc like a mad woman on laughing gas <<<slight exaggeration>>>> ;)
We will just have to ride the wave and do the best we can, but as you say....its just so upsetting to see fear in them :(
Jo
:)

Hi Jo Bassett
I did leave the ironing board out at one time for about 2 weeks  moving it now and again to a different place. Today when I had Jude out we were walking passed a shop that is getting renovated and there was some drilling going on  and she nearly went into orbit then on the way home as I always do I let her off the leash  and there was a van sitting at the kerbside  the driver came round to close the van up got in his cab and started the engine Jude (being off the lead) about turned and high tailed it back the way we came Jude wouldn't stop  even  when I called her til she thought better of crossing the road. I dont want to always have to have her walking on the lead  as I like to walk up the canal with her and let her run I have tried to ignore her hyperness but it seems to  be getting worse day by day  and I really dont want to stress her out to much either or to take her to a dog behaviourist  not yet anyway as I know they can be very expensive I would like to try and cure her myself. What I am going to  try and get is a tape of noises as Teri suggested of things that upset Jude lol dont know if I will be able to find one of those or if I am going to have to go about with a tape recorder and do it myself lol I did surf the net looking for sounds but to no avail yet so if someone ones of a website with sounds off trucks rattles bangs and household noises I would be grateful

http://www.crosskeysbooks.com/members/rafe1.html

Crosskeys sells his CD/booklets on:

Curing the Gunshy Dog
Curing Firework Phobia
Curing Thunder Phobia

http://www.soundsscary.com/Page%201.htm
http://www.dogdayz.co.uk/
http://www.soundsscary.com/Firework%20night%20client%20handout.pdf

Hi
I understand that you like to let Jude off lead...but IMVHO, is it worth the risk? - perhaps it would be best to avoid this during her fear period. A long lead in an open field is all that I can rely on at any time with mine.(my basset would certainly prefer to follow an endless scent trail than follow a recall instruction!) :)
Also, during my girls fear period, I've avoided particular areas such as building sites, town centre delivery areas etc. Maybe others will see this as avoidance tactics?, but my aim is to practice commands, while building up trust between us both at this stage. I am taking her through car parks, pasts pubs etc....its just that I'm choosing times when they are less busy.
I'm obviously very lucky with her lack of interest in noise. Do you have a radio or TV on most of the time, even when you leave Jude on her own at home? We have ours on quite loud...we're also noisey around the house too....me clattering pans in the kitchen...and my husband banging away in the garden.... (for want of a better expression! ) I suppose I'm just airing my thoughts....but the assistance you've had with purchasing some CD's sounds a good idea for you. Start them off at low volume initially...and then increase accordingly and see how it goes.
Hope you soon see some light at the end of the tunnel....and please give it some thought about possibly keeping Jude on her lead for the meantime. She's obviously a very clever girl, knowing she couldn't cross the road without you...but something may scare her so much next time that she'll be forced to forget such good training & behaviour. ;)
Jo
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