Received:

ANIMAL WELFARE BILL 
 
Wednesday 14 th July 2004 
Launch of the Draft Animal Welfare Bill by DEFRA for Public Consultation (100 page document).

Approved Prosecutor Status: Protection of Animals (Amendment) Act 2000 (12 page document) 

On the 7th June 2004 the RSPCA signed a written agreement with the Secretary of State (Margaret Beckett MP) for DEFRA to allow them to perform the functions of an approved prosecutor and will come into effect from the 1st September 2004.
 
Agreement ? 

Safewings are gravely concerned at the silence surrounding this new legislation. Despite the fact that this new legislation applies to EVERY pet/companion owner in the Country there has been NO public notification of the above agreement. WHY? Even those involved with the Consultation Process at high levels were not aware of the agreement. WHY? 
 
Safewings are gravely concerned that on the 1st September 2004 a Charity, the RSPCA (who only complete a 6 month training course) will be given more power than the Police Force WHY? 
 
Safewings are gravely concerned that there will be no Governing body to police the RSPCA and that there are no systems or procedures in place to protect members of the Public against wrongful powers of seizure, prosecution etc. 
 
What Does It Really Mean? 

On the 1st September 2004 the RSPCA will be awarded their much sought after powers of entry and seizure. They will be given the legal powers to enter premises, using force if necessary, and WITHOUT a warrant or Police Officer present. They may enter the premises in your absence. They may seize your animal(s), if considered in distress, to sell, dispose of or euthanase. You will, even if you win the case be fully liable for all costs arising from the care of your animal(s) during the prosecution process which can now take 3 years.  
 
What Can I Do ? 

Express your objections and ask WHY there has been no Public Notification given by contacting ... 
 
Secretary of State Margaret Beckett MP 
Your Local MP 
Local/National Newspapers 
Local Radio Stations 
Send us your factual first hand accounts (signed please) of any experiences you have had with the RSPCA. 
 
 
DEADLINE 20TH august 2004 

For more information:
Contact 
Safewings Wildlife Conservation Projects 
46 South Street 
Isham 
Kettering 
Northants 
NN14 1HP  
birds.safewings@virgin.net 

Very worrying Admin!

Regards, John

This is so typical of this government.

If they don't tell outright lies they do things in an underhand way.

Strikes me that everyone is at risk if this goes ahead as there are too many RSPCA who think they are experts in everything to do with animals when they know diddly poo!!!!!!

I have doubleposted this - sorry Admin :rolleyes:
I didnt see your posting here

I think all concerned need to write and express their dismay at these powers.
Given they can use force to enter, can enter when your not there, without police presence and take the animal and even if you win the case YOU are responsible for the care and upkeep of your animal while its been in their care with the case pending !
They can also euthanase

Are they trying to say mistakes dont happen too ? Would you be happy if they got the wrong address and entered your home and took your pet ? :(

Crikey this is dreadful. I wonder if it will change the way they react to reports though because their standard response at the moment seems to be call the police!

Think that knowing that they can barge into a neighbours property will stop some people reporting their concerns, after all none of us wish to be sited in any further action, by either party for the reason for the break-in.

Will this apply to the SSPCA too? Obviously Ill be expressing outrage at the lack of governance coupled with swingeing powers, but is animal welfare devolved or national and will this put ideas into the sappy brains of our MSPS once they tire of making patronising adverts adjuring us to stop smoking, eat more veg and listen to the kids more?

Yes Id be interested to know if this applies to scotland too?

No, this only applies to England as as I can understand. It also only applies at the present time to commercial premises and not domestic. However, I suspect that the RSPCA will soon be asking for further powers to enable them to do so.
Are you aware that DEFRA have the statutory power to enter your property and seize your animals should there be an outbreak of disease that is placing both animal and human under threat? There is no redress against this either you cannot defend yourself or animals by going to Court and pleading to Judge to not let it happen. You and you animals farm or domestic have 'no rights'.  If Defra says your animals are to be killed because there is an outbreak similar or the same as FMD.  It could even be a imported disease, (the relaxation of quarentine could be a downfall to our animal in the longer term) we are already hearing of cases of diseases not heard of here in the UK before. If it  is a serious threat to animal and human health then they have the power in place to act.  There will be no use pleading with them not to, it is too late for that it is the Law. 

Pat, as you say the Authorities already have these powers anyway. I lived in the Surrey area where, in the early 1970s, there was a rabies scare. All the wildlife was exterminated (3 years later a rabbit was a rare sight), and loose dogs could be siezed and destroyed.

I'm too busy being annoyed about having to spend £100 getting passports for my horses to meet with an EU/DEFRA directive. That got through with no consultation and for what? So we HONEST horse owners don't get fined or jailed for having an unpassported horse/pony/donkey, whilst the ones who are actually cruel will get away with having no passports because they're not traceable - or they just buy one from Southall when the horses go tot he sales anyway!! It will probably be dogs next.

In the light of the knowledge that many of us have of varying effectiveness of the RSPCA, this is dreadful.   

I'm writing a letter today

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Yes Jo you may cross post.

Incidently, many organisations have the power of entry eg: Gas,Electricity et al

Gas and electricity do have to obtain a warrant from a magistrate first (unless the law has changed since I worked in the industry) - unless invited in of course. Does that apply to the RSPCA ?

Daisy

Sorry - just reread your posting above and see that they won't need one :)

In an emergency, gas/electric do not need a warrant. If you think about it, by the time they have obtained a warrant your property could have blown up!

That type of emergency is rare and generally the occupants would be only too happy to let them in :)

Daisy

If they are in ;-)

May I cross post this, Admin?

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

There are a number of concerned people crossposting this :)
The more the better really

Sounds like the RSPCA will then have more powers than social services to enter and sieze one has to ask why this is, since social workers are trained for far longer than 6 months.  Another worrying aspect is that the inspectors can deem your animals in such a state as to require euthanasing immediately after only 6 months training! - vets train for much much longer to be able to practise and would be unable to euthanase without owners permission unless in very extreme circumstances. 

Another thing, what selection process will be put in place for inspectors? since these new powers could easily be open to abuse by the wrong people.

The whole thing is just a dream come true for those con-men who wish to enter peoples homes for burglary etc.  Who will be able to deny someone entry who looks like an RSPCA inspector ?

I've got to say this....

Everyone moans the RSPCA do nothing with cruelty cases...and now they are getting more powers to actually ACT everyone is up in arms and moaning I can't see why this would affect anyone looking after their animals properly - and the RSPCA will still be as busy as ever with REAL cruelty cases to bother with ones that are not genuine What DOES everyone want? Constructive comments on what would work to everyone's agreement might be better?

Can't help thinking that you have a point, Chloe

Daisy

<<<I can't see why this would affect anyone looking after their animals properly >>

Mistakes are made though Chloe- there is a site called Animadversion which documents some .
I worry about the DDA though and certain bullbreeds- if there are malicious calls could there be a possibility of someones dog being removed .

I also always think there is an element of bias from those who investigate complaints about themselves. :rolleyes:

Although in fairness I would imagine as the RSPCA still has a duty to protect their own employees I would imagine that they would advise that the police are taken along to avoid agression and potential violent incidents.

Mistakes are made in all walks of life though lel - the point is that everyone has been asking for the RSPCA to have more powers, act more aggressively, be more aware and stop sitting with their thumbs up their backsides whilst neglected animals die - well now everyone has what they wanted. You can't please all of the people all of the time but you have to start somewhere :)

Yes ChloeH,

But more powers than the police??  They won't even have to get a search warrant, let alone permission to sieze. This puts them above the law, no-one to answer to but themselves!!   Just keep your fingers crossed its not you coming home to an empty, broken-into house and a load of trouble and expense (not to mention traumatised animals) all through mistaken identity!

I don't have time now to read the full thing - and I shall do exactly that before making a judgement. However, if the occasional mistaken identity leads to some of the dreadful cases of cruelty being avoided then frankly, I can cope with that. It happens just as easily with the police - wasn't there a case of someone being killed after they entered the wrong house and shot the poor bloke in bed? I know which organisation I would prefer to make the mistake!

there will be no Governing body to police the RSPCA and that there are no systems or procedures in place to protect members of the Public against wrongful powers of seizure, prosecution etc.

I think its foolish to put forth a draft without looking at the implications -

Whos going to have the statistics to see whether the RSPCAs new powers are actually working - whos going to check they're targetting the right cases- whos going to highlight the mistakes ?

Have you read this: http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/cm62/6252/6252.pdf All 102 pages? I'm not arguing with you, I just wonder who has actually read the whole thing and understands it?

Page 18 - section 14.

I thought you hadnt read it ;)

I hadn't - I just skimmed down to the bit about entry into private dwellings - so ner ner :)

:p