I have a collie x with an excellent working pedigree, temperment etc. This coupled with her working ability has resulted in lots of people(including us) wanting a pup from her for working. My question is about her hips, as she's a cross i've had conflicting replies.. will the BVA score them as she's a x? same with eyes? Also when she was a pup she ran into a fence post and hurt her hip, would this trauma have resulted in now giving her a false score?
There is no evidence of hip problems with any of her ancestors.

Also any one know of any good vets in the north west for taking hip score xrays?

Many thanks

may

Do you know I am not sure if dogs from the working register are able to be scored under the scheme or not. But hips are only just the start of the research required if you are to be sure you are not passing on any hereditary problems either constructional or health.

I've spent the last 2 years reshearching her pedigree, back 10 generations on her sire side and 7 on her dam's. I have one dog in mind whom i have also reshearched. I asked the question on here as i have had several different replies from vets etc re scoring and i wondered what people on her knew before i contacted the BVA. I amnot an inexperienced person and i am well qualified to judge wether i should breed my girl or not. Please do not assume that all new posters are incapable of doing their homework. I am probably a more responsible breeder than most on this forum. This will be a one off litter and not bred for money or pets. It is all at the planning stage at the moment and i have 23 people willing NOW to book a pup before i even disclose who the sire will hopefully be, one being her breeder.
All will go to working homes.
may

if you put her on the working /activites register which costs about £12,i think they should score her. i have a WS only registered on that register & he was done no probs. if the trama to the hip has caused damage the score will be higher,but say if you get a score of say 3-12=15,at least youll know where the "12" came from. im sort of quite sure that the established xbred lines in obedience such as the coltrievers are done. what lines is she????

If she is on the working reg she can be hip scored & eye tested

I don't know of vets in the NW but know of an excellent vet in North yorks where you can take your dog & have the X rays done, the vet will explain the plates & give you a very accurate & informed "guess"& not have to leave your dog for hours at the vets either. She is happy to discuss scoring before you go as well & you do not have to be a client.

Its the fact that she's a X that seems to confuse people. I know ws's etc can be scored but was told that a X beed is more difficult. Whre about in the North Yorks? as i'm willing to travel as my vets have told me its a waste of time getting her done because of her trauma and her being  a x, though mainly ws. She won't be mated till next year so i have time to plan everything.

thanks for all your replies.

She can be hip scored, but only when registered with the KC and the working register is the only option open to you. As to eye testing, she can be tested whether or not you register her although her results will only appear in the Breed Record Suppliment if she is registered. This is the usual route for obedience people. In fact it is only possible to take part in KC organised events, be it obedience, agility or flyball if the dog has been registered. The KC rules are very clear on that.

As to any possible effects of running into a post, Without seeing the accedent happen and watching the dog move now it would be impossible to know. Damage to a hip is I would have thought unlikley though. Usually running into something would affect the front of the dog rather than the back. I know of one Golden Retriever breaking a collar bone doing just that. I would have thought that any load on the bip would have been a glancing blow although of course, I was not there to see it happen and strange accedents happen all the time!

Regards, John

Applegarth

If you want any more info message me

Jill is an excellent reader of plates & very helpful too

Hi May, sorry I did not assume anything, you asked a question and I replied in a way I thought would help. Please remember I don't know what experience you have, can only take your post as it is written. It would seem that as I thought you can hip score if she is on the working register.

The hip scores of dogs from the worki9ng register strangely enough are listed in the back of the Hound Breed record supplement, so as they are registered dogs they can avail themselves of the BVA/KC health schemes. :D

Actually  Barbara they are in all the breed record supplements as they can contain dogs from all the groups i thought they were restricted to the pastoral/working supp until I got a toy dog one & found them at the back years ago

But they aren't hounds, some are WS etc, so why in the Hound supplement, or do they copy them into all the supplements???

They print all of the scores in each supplement I think it is easier than separating out the different groups

Ah I see :D

I do find it interesting that some breeds hardly ever have3 dogs scored as HD isn't seen as a problem among the smaller breeds especially.

One such breed is the Beagle.  Well I was quite shocked at some of the scores of the few scored individuals of theis breed, and think that they have nothing to be complacent about.

All club members in our breed are requirted to Hip Score and Eye Test all breeding stock, and many non breeders are scored and eye tested too.

Consider that last year there were 20 Elkhound litters registered, (17 by people with an affix, one Pet owner having a litter, and sadly two bred by puppy farmers.  One of these was having her second litter in a 12 month, and other bred from at under 18 months, neither with health testing).  During the same period 26 dogs were Hip Scored and 77 Eye tested.

I have a friend with dobes and she was very saddened to see what a small proportion were Hip Scored and otherwise tested compared to the litters bred, and it wasn't all down to commerical breeders and puppy farmers not testing either.

She even ended up faling out over this issue with someone who wanted to use her dog, she was not prepared to accept an unscored bitch who had not been eye tested or VWD tested, even though her dog is clear of Von Willebrands and has a reasonably good Hip score.  ended

It's the same with GSDs most pet owners do not score or haemo test & they are the majority of the breeders most GSDs registered don't have affixes

It is as bad as breeding for usually traits like colour & coat the ,ore unusal the higher the value in the GP eyes In BC's its merles that are popular because of the markings-one puppy farmer always has loads of puppies registered(sometimes in excess of 10 litters a quarter)She has gone form B & W & Tri to merles now

Cavaliers most pet people have never heard of Syringmyelia yet it is believed at ALL current dogs have a line to a known carrier(doesn't mean they are all carriers but that they could be)& people in & out of the show world are still breeding from dogs under 2 1/2-the pet people without eye or heart tests as well

If more people health tested then the true state of dogs health would be known & of course all bredders should be hoest about their dogs

I just can't beleive the head in the sand attitude.  always feel better the devil you know.  At least if there are problems in a breed then the best can be done to reduce the incidence of affected dogs being produced.

In our breed ( Belgians) almost all breeders hipscore and eyetest once - at around 12 months or earlier if they can for the eye test.  It very rare for people to eyetest annually. We rely on people's honesty to report epilepsy in their lines. Because we are not (fortunately) a commercial breed , we do not have huge numbers of pups born and it is fairly easy for folk to keep tabs on what different lines are producing.

Yvonne

In our advice for eyes it is stressed that the dog or bitch must ahve an up to date eye test at time of mating i.e. less than 12 months old.  Maybe the breed clubs need to educate more on this one, as I know that eye testing was not done when I had the breed but hips were stressed.

Belgians suffer from Posterior Polar Subcapsular Cataracts similar to Goldens and Labradors  These hereditory cataracts are in the main late forming and can occur at any age up to around 8 years old. Really the only safe plan with eyes is to test annually at least up to 9 years old.To only test eyes ones is almost as bad as not testing at all!

Regards, John

When very few people eye tested my freind decided to avail herself of a testing session put on by our ringcraft.  One of her bitches failed her eye test (groen) and the other one (Terv) passed.  she had the Terv retested before mating as the cert had run out,a nd she also failed, both thad Cateracts, from very different bloodlines.

She is amazed at the number of people who will happily mate unteste4d stock, and also blames stud dog owners accepting untested bitches.  She had a st7ud enquiry for her young dog,a nd when she pointed out that the bitch would need to be hip scored and eye tested before she would consider it the lady got stroppy, as she only wanted a pet litter!!!  She even complained to the breed club about my freind!

So often people are unaware that problems can come along later in life. Running eye testing sessions obviously my dogs are tested. Bethany sailed through her eye tests right up to eight years old. At that point I was told, "Sorry, she's got cataracts in both eyes!" My Anna is clear so far but at six years old there is still another couple of years to go before I'll know for certain.

Best wishes, John

Hi John

Think we've had this discussion before - unfortunately the reason that folk won't get the eye test done annually is because at the moment they can advertise them as 'eye tested clear' after one clear certificate ( usually done as young as possible to ensure that no cataracts have have time to develop !.) You can probably tell that this is a real 'bee in my bonnet' and I think the scheme needs to looked at again because I believe the situation in my breed is prevalent across most other breeds.

Unfortunately I think the only way forward on this is to somehow link annual testing with puppy registration ( no  pups registered from stock which has not had all CURRENT health tests done). this is VERY unlikely to happen given that puppy registration is a big money spinner for the Kennel Club and they seem unwilling to do anything which may impact on this.

Until then  a 'one off' eye test just to obtain a clear certificate which is then used for the dog's entire life is a meaningless excercise.

Yvonne