is this normal price for 8 weeks old puppy?
i think this is way to much.. or is it?
anybody how have an idea?

Divide it by four and that is then twice as much as I would pay! And before anyone says that £500 is not enough for a puppy that has to be born by caesarean then I will reply that the breeders and breed club should get their house (and the breed standard) in order and start breeding non exaggerated dogs which CAN have a natural birth.

John

God, I'm importing a european champion dog for less !!

Have to agree with your sentiments.  There are other breeds that often need C sections, like the Boston Terrier, and having sourced one of these for a friend, they are around the same price as my own and many breeds, (unless things have changed drastically in last few years).

A quarter of th3e price stated I think would be more usual, even though I wouldn't pay it :D

I have to agree John, its a breed thats half way down a dead-end street already.  Surely it wasn't originally so difficult to whelp.

No, it used to be OK many years ago although it was always a breed which suffered from the heat. The problem in recent years is that the heads have got exaggerated to such an extent that the front of the dog is just too large to pass out of the back end (Trying to be delicate in describing it!!) if you follow my meaning. If there was a will in the breed to improve the situation and the breed standard was changed to discourage the exaggerations then after a few generations the situation could be reversed. The trouble of course is that what fits the breed standard now and is winning at show would at a stroke no longer fit the breed standard. Too many people have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo :(

Best wishes, John

No, guest. That price is way over the top. Bulldog puppies are notoriously expensive, but £1500 is usually top whack for a really good pup from quality, show-winning parents.

this thread is a bit similar to the one about blue staffies for £1200.

guest, this price is excessive, even for a breed which has problems giving birth and which often requires expensive veterinary treatment (hence the high puppy prices!)

I personally prefer the american and old tyme bulldogs which are bred to have longer legs and longer muzzles, as I feel they represent a healthier type of dog.

at the end of the day its your money, but shop around is my advice,  find a good breeder who tries to breed the fittest, healthiest bulldogs - a fool and their money are easily parted!

Not replying to your directly but there does seem to be an erroneous idea that all bulldogs are born via a caesarean and are automatically unhealthy. There are plenty of healthy bulldogs and there are a good number who give birth naturally, think the cost is a question of boosted requirements and a case of supply and demand. Please be aware that you can pay as much for a poorly bred dog as you will for one that is bred with care. The best tip I can give is to do your homework and learn what a good health pup should be like and the going rate for such a pup, this applies to all breeds.

For a Bulldog £1500. is plenty but £400 is probably too little. Enquire of the breed clubs and visit as many breeders as you can, then you will know what sort of breeder you want to buy from and the price you can be expected to pay for the healthy well bred pup. Unfortunately it is the popular breeds and cross breeds that are bred by people who either do not know or do not care what they are doing and they are the ones who are more interested in what they can ask for the pups they produce than the homes they are going to.

I realise not all bulldogs suffer this, but it does seem to be a problem which needs attention in the breed. did anyone see that programme about bulldogs it was on quite recently........the vet on there advised people to buy or rescue a crossbreed instead of a pedigree breed as she believes the breeders who breed the bulldogs just for money are causing cruelty and ripping people off.

Yes, but that vet's a prat who believes all pedigree dogs are unhealthy, which is clearly a load of old toot.

That programme and that vet were talking about as much sense as people asking £4000 for a puppy or saying that all Bulldogs are unhealthy. In any breed, cross breed or pretend breed you will get unhealthy specimens at least those who care for their breeds are doing their best to make sure that every possible care is taken to produce a healthy dog, the same can't be said of those breeding for money or fashionable cross breeds and pretend breeds who have no way of checking up on the genes their breeding stock are carrying.

Why would a Bulldog price need to be £1500 Jackie when a Labrador price would be around £400? Health checks are the same price, feeding would certainly be no more, KC registeration is exactly the same so I can see no reason for the higher price!

Regards, John

Supply and demand John. Dogs, like anything else, are only worth what people are prepared to pay for them :)

In other words Mel, "The great god £££" Sad isn't it :(

Best wishes, John

Yup

no, I think she was just pointing out that a lot of breeds suffer from hereditary problems, and she was highlighting the bulldog in particular as suffering at the hands of dog breeders desire to breed to a set show standard.

I have to be very honest here, my favored type of dog is one bred to conform to a standard of what it can do and the purpose it is bred for, rather than for looks alone. bulldogs are no longer used for illegal bullfighting etc, so  I agree with the vet in principal .

perhaps its time they were bred a little more along the lines of the american bulldog which as well as being a more handsome dog than the english bulldog, can perform more functions (ie guard dog, catch dog etc) than its english counterpart.

just my opinion, dont mean to offend any bulldog breeders, as im sure there are good ones out there who strive to produce better, fitter bulldogs, I just think perhaps its time to call some changes in quite a few breeds as when you look back to say 50-60 years ago, the dogs then were very different to the exaggerated charicatures we see in some breeds today.

>>  no, I think she was just pointing out that a lot of breeds suffer from hereditary problems, and she was highlighting the bulldog in particular as suffering at the hands of dog breeders desire to breed to a set show standard. <<

No, Russett I was not, you bang your drum if you like but I said noting of the sort, I think if everyone breed to the breed standards then dogs in general would be a lot healthier.

If you like the Am Bulldog fine but stop pushing it down other peoples throats, they are not all healthy by any means and if someone wants a Bulldog they do not want an AM bulldog or any of the money making efforts that are sold as being 'healthy versions of the bulldog, they are not and the whole idea is nonsense.

jackie h i am not banging any drum, by "she" I was referring to the lady vet on the programme in question! Im sory if somehow you misconstrued that to mean I was talking about you?

I stated my opinion that is all. not trying to shove anything down anyones throats, I respect the fact there are good respectable bulldog breeders out there and I said so.

>> I just think perhaps its time to call some changes in quite a few breeds as when you look back to say 50-60 years ago, the dogs then were very different to the exaggerated charicatures we see in some breeds today. <<

They may have changed but most are a good deal healthier, and believe me I am one of the few on here that can remember that far back. Please do a lot more research before you start making such all-embracing statements.

jackie h why are you being rude? I was just stating my opinion, not targetting anyone in particular. I have researched many breeds out of interest and have been in dogs for a long time too. If you look at pictures of many breeds they look (IMO) better than they do today, and, in times gone by, dogs were bred less for money and looks and more for functionality.

This is an open forum and I think im entitled to my opinion as you are yours, and (I hope!) I have put my point across without being rude to anyone.

sorry if you dont like what I said, it wasnt directed at you personally.

You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to take my words and suggest what I meant by them, which is what I thought you did. Apologise if I was rude, did not think I was, but I can speak for myself and find it irritating for someone to try to explain what I meant (I accept that is not what was intended) and then to make such all embracing, unfounded comments about other peoples dogs

I didnt take your words, I was refferring to the lady vet in the programme when i said "she". I think you maybe misunderstood and thought I was talking about your post which was above mine?

dont worry about it, I dont want to argue, I just have a different opinion to you thats all, doesnt mean we cant discuss in an adult manner.

I like bulldogs, I just feel its unfair they should suffer breathing problems and birthing difficulties because they are bred to have such an exaggerated face, and I prefer the american typeof bulldog as it is not so exaggerated, but i do appreciate that not everyone will agree with me obviously.

Have amended my post to acknowledge that I misunderstood your post. The thing is most or the Bulldogs in the show ring have no more trouble breathing than any other with a flattened skull and a wide gape. And the majority of those breeders I know have no more caesars than other large headed breeds. It is unfair to take the word of one self publicising vet to dam, not just the bulldog, but most other recognised breed as well.

Happy for you to enjoy the dogs you have chosen and I think you would be upset if someone started to spread or repeat untruths about them, just as breeders of health bulldogs would find your remarks unfounded and upsetting.

no problems jackie, i think its easy to get mixed up on here as when you click on reply, the reply doesnt allways end up directly underneath.

the reason I mentioned bulldogs specifically was because the original guest posted about them, but i do agree, the problems of the bulldog can be applied to all brach......(no, Im not even going to TRY and spell that word!!!!) "short-faced" breeds :-)  and I feel the same way about breeds like the french bulldog, pug and peke, however to try and suggest change for the good of the breeds breathing/reproductive health, is obviously going to go down like a lead balloon with supporteers and breeders of these breeds.

I can understand why as to change the shape of a bulldog or pug is to change the very essence of the breed itself, and obviously a lot of breeders would find change hard to deal with, but surely it is something worth considering, to breed for longer face shape and (hopefully) that would help these "man made" problems? Im not suggesting that all breeds should be pointy faced, long legged and athletic, just that considering the idea of changing these breeds a little to try and help their health, may not be such a bad idea?

(in an ideal world!)

<<no, I think she was just pointing out that a lot of breeds suffer from hereditary problems, and she was highlighting the bulldog in particular as suffering at the hands of dog breeders desire to breed to a set show standard.>>

Jackie H, not wishing to get involved with this discussion (as I have nothing of use to add) but I believe Russett was speaking about Emma Milne (the lady "pratt" vet in question) not yourself :)

thankyou blondebird, you are correct, that is who I was reffering to (although I wouldnt have called her a pratt, she seemed to raise some valid points.........again,only IMO)

:-)

Have already acknowledged I misunderstood.

thanks, no offence meant, or taken :-) have replied to you above :-)

Sorry Jackie H we must have been typing at the same time :)

Russett1, if you do a search on here you will find a discussion on Emma Milne from not so long ago which should help you get both sides of the story, personally I think she is a "pratt" who speaks a load of twaddle and only sees ill pedigree dogs because he is a vet, and vets rarely see healthy dogs.  That is JMHO though, and obviously everyone is welcome to their own :)

Claire

how do i do the search to find the discussion? is it in "search" at the top?

I respected the vet in questions opinions as she happens to have the same opinion as my vet, (we had a discussion about it not so long ago) and possibly others who see a lot of the problems associated with this type of dog,  and I could see where she was coming from. I dont think its appropriate to call her a "pratt" as shes obviously a trained person who care about animal welfare, but again, thats just IMO! :-)

If she cared about animal welfare she would be promoting cross breeds and mongrels - IMHO

type her name in the search bar at the top :)

blondebird, she did! :-) at the end of the programme it showed her playing with her dogs in the park (collies or collie crosses I think) and she said the best thing to do is get a dog from a rescue centre :-)

damn it I meant would NOT be promoting cross breeds and I cant edit my post now  

Yes russett, she and her then husband bought two litter brother collie-crosses from a farm - no health checks were reported to have been done on either parent! Not very responsible - but that's what she has said (on TV and in print) is the best way to get a dog. :rolleyes:

I didnt realise that jean genie, I presumed she had gotten her dogs from a rescue centre.

BUT, and I risk being shot down in flames here, I still agree with what she said, and if I were given a choice, I would probably opt for a collie cross breed from a working farm than a pedigree english bulldog, EVEN if the tables were turned and the bulldog cost say £40 and the collie cross was £1000 simply because the chances of the collie cross being healthier (in general) and longer-lived compared to the bulldog, would make it worthwhile.

tried doing search, nothing happened, am I spelling her name right? is it milne or millne?

Milne, with one 'L'

I'm the other way around, I'm afraid - I would much rather have a bulldog than a collie-cross (and no, I don't breed bulldogs, or any other brachycephalic breed). And I'd rather have a bulldog than an Ambull. I think the bulldogs are much handsomer. Horses for courses!
:)

jean genie..............im jealous!!! you have out-spelled me!! :-)

did you have to look it up or did you know it off the top of your head?

My spellings pretty bad so didnt want to risk it!

Correct spelling is my job! ;) Actually, I had to look it up about a year ago, but once learned, usually never forgotten!

Not certain of the other skull shapes though. :o One is mesaticephalic (I think the 'normal' shape, ie lab, GSD etc), but the other - the saluki, greyhound shape? No idea!
;)

There is a docking thread which mentions Emma Milne a lot ..but the flaming forum wont let me do a link :( Just type her name in the search engine

thanks ......will do :-)

To anyone who believes breeds should be allowed to keep their individual identities, she is a prat. To people who think they should all be allowed to cross randomly and emerge as a "one-size-fits-all" Euro-breed, then she is marvellous.
JMHO.

if bulldogs etc were bred to be a little longer in the nose and leg, they would still be bulldogs, im not suggesting that all short-nosed breeds be changed radically to make them look like a new breed, just to breed them more along the lines of the sussex and old tyme bulldog types, or even the AB

>> just to breed them more along the lines of the sussex and old tyme bulldog types, or even the AB <<

Now it is this sort of comment that always confuses me. Look at half a dozen of any of these dogs and they look totally different, so it is not possible to think of them as a breed, can't say if this applies to AM's in AM because I have only seen them in the UK.

Any type of dog for which there is a demand will be bred by those who do not have a clue what they are doing and there for the chances of having a sick animal is much higher, this applies to recognised breeds as well as crosses. The more popular the more likely it is to find a poor specimen. 

It does strike me as odd that you should suggest people would be better of buying dogs that have no background information as far as health or temperament is concerned and apart from the AM do not breed true to type. Would you not be better suggesting that people only bought from breeders who understood the breed they are breeding and can tell you about the background of the puppy you are buying for at least 10 generations and in most cases far more, show you pictures of the dogs in question and tell you little tales about their lives.

yes, I agree that there are some good breeders of bulldogs who are striving to breed the best they can, and would advise someone to go to them if they have their heart set on a bulldog. If you look at the other thread you will see I advised guest to do a search on here :-)

however, if they were undecided, then I would probably advise them to research and consider the AB and some of the other types of bulldog which are bred to be longer legged, with a longer muzzle and for a more athletic purpose.

>>  however, if they were undecided, then I would probably advise them to research and consider the AB and some of the other types of bulldog which are bred to be longer legged, with a longer muzzle and for a more athletic purpose. <<

......but no health records. Long legs may be fine it that is what rings your bells but not if the dog has epilepsy in it background. Have you ever watched two bulldogs play, I mean two well bred bulldogs, they play as hard and pant as much as your average well bred staffie. And a good deal less than your average well bred mastiff who as it happens have long legs.

Try reading this!

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=366657;hlm=and;hl=Can%20we%20ask%20breeder%20for%20a%20refund%3f#366657

Just my in put
I have Bulldogs breed and show them I love them they make wonderful pets for the family they greet all with a big lick they love children /mine run/ jump/ chase /fight/ whelp naturally/mine will run out with my Bullmastiffs or my Corsos my youngest two are so fast,, all mine come over the fields with me to feed the ponies and never stop playing around or chasing things. I dont want a dog that i have to watch and worry about just in case it gets hold of another dog or my ponies i want Bulldogs to stay sweet and kind...

a properly trained AB will not chase livestock or harm ponies, especially if you have owned and trained the dog yourself from puppyhood. :-)

val, you cannot click on the link provided, what was the topic about?