Hi all

I have a young male - Louis - who has always been on the thin side and whose coat has never been that great. At the moment he is on James Wellbeloved ( which all my dogs have done well on) but at a recent show a breeder whose dogs always look in fantastic condition told me to put him on Hill Science performance diet. I have heard mixed things about this food and wondered what others thought. Asking around within my breed ( Belgians) it seem that many of the top winning kennels feed this to the dogs they are campaigning.

I have tried feeding the BARF diet and it was a disaster !. They all had the most terrible runs but the worst thing was that feeding bones caused the dogs to fight over their food - something they had never previously done before. I had to make sure that all remaining bones were picked up or they would fight all day over them. All my dogs live in the house as one big family and they went from being relaxed and happy together to constantly grumbling and threatening each other.

Having switched back to James Wellbeloved things are now back to normal but before I switch again I would value your thoughts on Hills. Thanks.

Yvonne

Hi,

My goldens are fed JWB and do very well on it,I have also fed Hill's to my younger pup and one of my older dogs having the same great results.The advantage for me is we run (Koi and animal feed business).
I do feel its overpriced, but I think its a good food again what suit some dogs will not suit others.

Briony:-)

i feed eukanuba which it is the same contents as hills but slightly cheaper.my pup looks great on it and growing well.i think it is personnel choice and finding one thats best for the dog.
our food is £38 for 15 kg.our vet only reccommend eukanuba or hills but they do get a cut in sales.the only thing i have noticed there is alot more range in hills including treatment/medication food if needed.
my mums dog is on hills but for kidney failure she never had it before but can't eat enough.
you can also get it in wet or dry so what ever the dog is used to are mix them together.
saying that my mums dog is good for her age 11 going 12 so it must suit her.

No way would i feed my dog Hills or eukanuba as for the vets on a recent trip tp ours he tryed to sell us some Hills . I asked him what was in it he then read the label on the bag, HE HAD NO IDEA , most vets have very little understanding of  pet food  and  i think they get a heafty pay back from hills to sell thier food.Also i will only buy my dogs food from a supplier thats approved By The BUAV ,check out thier web site i think 8 companies are approved two i know of are Trophy and arden grange.Our Trophy agent Has given us a full list of all the ingredients, protein levels and before we started to buy just advised us to check the labels on some of the big companys bags
it was areal eye opener .our dogs loves his Trophy premium food and i know exactly whats in it ,they are not a big company and not found in every area but i would recomened them. Again they are approved by The BUAV so at least i know that no other dog Has had to suffer just so my dog gets a good food. can Hills and Eukanuba say the same?

Hi,

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and different food suit different dogs and their owners.
With the show Goldens I have had great results and it works for my dogs.

Briony;-)

Quite agree Briony & I could relate documented evidence about how Trophy treat their agents & how their company operates(no I have never been one)etc but at the end of the day it's a personal choice on what we feed our dogs. One food will suit one animal may not suit another

Before we go down the animal testing route argument, think about the animals that are used to produce the food, just because the food is BUAV approved, doesn't mean the food animals are treated humanely

Basically we have freedom to choose & just because you disagree does not mean one person is right & the other is wrong

I think burns say that their chicken are not battery raised, which is important to me - but everyone has different priorities :)

Sorry
i have no idea how Trophy treat their agents, keep them in cages untill they are ready to sell and then let them loose on Jo public?. i am not that interested.  The chap who comes to me shows no signs of ill treatment and takes time to make sure my dog is ok

I am more concerened about what i feed my dog. i belive in getting as much information about  the food and the people who sell it. Yes it is important that i buy From a company Thats approved By the BUAV  check out their web site its very good and covers all aspects af animal welfare .So yes it does concern its self with the source of the food  .Some of us keep an open mind about thease things and are not won over by slick advertising and hard sell  BY big companys  but prefer to do research first.thats why i joined this forum after all this is a place to exchange views and ask people about other foods to get feedback.

Grondemon,

"at a recent show a breeder whose dogs always look in fantastic condition told me to put him on Hill Science performance diet. I have heard mixed things about this food and wondered what others thought. Asking around within my breed ( Belgians) it seem that many of the top winning kennels feed this to the dogs they are campaigning"

Sorry to quote your own words, but that sounds like a pretty compelling testimony to me! Definitely sounds like its worth a try!

HI AGAIN I  feel  some breeders are a bit like vets .When we purchased our setter from a well know breeder we asked the qustion why she was being fed on a particular brand . PART OF Her answer was that because she was such a well know breeder she was given heavy discounts
and free food from that manufactors . Money talks with the big boys and after all breeders are in bussiness so it pays
to keep their overheads down ,this may be the case with her but not all.I dont know but it always makes me wonder  . We changed OUR dog over quite easly without her growing a second head such were the dire warnnings from the breeder not to change her food, but we are very much behind the  BUAV Campain (you may have noticed) thats why -JO  

jo english
hills and eukanuba are science diets. they are made up to give any dog the requirements they need.
my bog is a giant breed i have done reasearch and most foods have to much protien in them,to what is reccommended by vets for the type of dog and stage of development. i wouldn't just buy a food because my vet said so.......i make up my own mind the same as other owners.you say that you don't feed your dog on a food because it was reccommended by some one.don't you think other owners have made their own choice as well? if i gave my boy food that was lacking for him i could end up with a dog that hadn't got the strenght in his frame to carry his weight.
im sorry but i feel i have to say i think you are like the vets pushing your own idea's of what is the best food onto others.
you take your dog to the vets for their professional advice when you need it,so why won't you accept their advice about diet?
what would you do if your dog had a medical need to change to hills?
every person is entitled to their own choice of food even if we don't always agree.

"to the vets for their professional advice when you need it,so why won't you accept their advice about diet?"

I would not accept vets "professional adivce" about feeding because if you ask any vet what training they have had in animal nutrition it is generally " a couple of hours sponsored by XXXXX"!

Unless vets take a specialist course in animal nutrition I am afraid they are no more or less likely to have more expertise in this area than anyone else! :D

i did ask that question at my vet because of the dog i have (leonberger). the vet spoke to had training in animal nutrition with a few years experience in the field. a lot of the vets at the hospital (our vets) say hill's but the vet said they are virtual the same.feeding the correct diet is a big issue when you have a giant breed pup thats grows in mass around 2 kg a week.
but there is vets that will flannel you i understand that but thats why as the owner you need to check yourself.at the end of the day the choice is the owners and i don't think any any would give their dog a diet they didn't feel was the best. 

Hi,

I run a animal feed business and I don't push ANY particular brand,if Im asked what my Goldies are fed I tell them.
Customers come to us already knowing what brand they like we supply at very competitive prices.
I'm not concerned or interested in advertising there is no one feed that suits all dogs.So long as the dogs are fit and healthy and owners are happy it should not matter to anyone else who feeds what.
If someone ask an opinion on the board about certain brand that I've used i'll give
it, however I also know not everyone may agree with me and thats fine, but because that brand may not have worked for their dog doesn't necessarily mean it s a bad choice for someone else.

People are getting so obsessed in what we are feeding our dogs and listening to other people about their dog feeding ( not saying you should not be aware whats in them) and are forgetting to listen and assess their own dogs.Too many people in my opinion are reading so much on the back of packets they are not enjoying their dogs without worrying about food contents and becoming obsessed.
If your dogs are happy ,healthy,glossy coats,full of energy,good teeth and firm poo
just having annual checkups from vets your not going far wrong ,RELAX and enjoy your dogs whatever you feed:-)

Briony:-)

hi briony
for years the human food chain used vauge indgredents on human food untill they were forced to improve the labeling of food
as a result more care is taken into what gos into human food and this along with people taking a more healthy outlook
to what they eat we humans are begining to live longer. So should we not now extend our knowlage of better eating habits
to our dogs so they to could live longer Our animals trust us give them a decent diet as they cant read labels .after all 
how many people with children say well my son eats chips, burgers    coke and hes happy so why try to improve his diet just because a dog eats something and dosent complain assume its good for him-Jo   

One slight diff Marie
i dont stand to make any money out of my opion most vets are tied into Hills so yes they will recommened it the makes them money
as for calling somthing a sience diet please! a lot of dog food is called Chicken and rice but if you check the ingredents they contain less than 4% chicken .but we humans are  easly mislead by a names that sound grand. i am lucky i have found a vet who will not stock hills or eukanuba his view is he not into selling dog food only getting ill animals better .But this fourm is used by people asking for others peoples opions on food all i am doing is giving mine, not getting paid for doing so Jo

Jo i agree 100% with everything you have said :)

I've gotta admit that i AM obsessed with what my dogs eat,i think it's a good thing rather than a bad!

As for feeding euk. sci.diet etc. who would want to feed a food that is made by palmolive-colgate,sure i trust them with soaps etc. but dog food??I think NOT!!! I wouldnt feed these foods even if i got paid for it!

christine

Yeah that's the feedback that I was getting from others who show- they said that the Hills performance food really made the dogs 'bloom' and gave the coats fantastic condition. Many years ago I did try Eukanuba but found that it made my Groenendaels coats turn a rusty shade ( the dye in the food ?).

Yvonne

Have you compared the two foods to see the difference?  The websites are very detailed in their ingredient lists.

i did compare the two before we got out boy at 7 weeks so i could see the difference between them and others.
unless they have changed as he is 16 months.
is there a lot of difference now? i will check it out as a update.

A shiny coat can easily be acheived in a variety of ways, vit e, epo and zinc all help grow healthy skin and coat (i dont recommend feeding extra zinc unless you have a reasson to, you CAN overdose on it).

Adding tinned sardines to breakfast every day, add olive oil to the feed, voila, one shiny coat.... and if i can get a shiny coat on a wirehaired dog, without feeding XXX brand of (IMO) crap, i will!

Em

Hi,

What I said was be aware what in the food of course,but lot not be obsessed:-)

I found the only way for my dogs to have such a glossy coats feeding Jwb with occasional sardines as a treat
I found Hills gave a similar result to an older dog where althogh Jwb previously gave him a glowing coat did not and I tried the Hills and I liked it for him.
As I said what suits one how they feed might not suit another.

Learn  to go over your dog feel his condition use your hands and look at him,so many people fail to do this and get so wrapped up in ingredients brainwashed by other people and vets too.
If i'm feeding a complete food I want one I don't to have add sardines or oil to produce a healthy coat or anything else apart from an occasional treat.
The only other thing I occasionally use is green raw tripe to a youngster and I don't use very often this works for us.

As for my family I'm not obsessed with their food either,They eat everything in moderation,Sometimes we have frozen meals but I prefer to cook from scratch,they eat plenty fruit and veg both raw and cooked but they also have biscuit and sweets they have fizzy drinks at parties or if we go to Macdonalds but at home they have fresh frit juice or C-VIT or water .They are not allowed to eat between meals unless its crips ,fruit or raw veg,but I don't go through reading every label.

Briony:-)

I would say your best bet is to compare ingredients and of course price...You want a food where the very first ingredients is meat or a meat meal andnot preserved with BHT,BHA or Ethoxyquin any of that in it stay away...I have copied ingredients of dogfood and compared them to eachother, I even went as far as carrying bags around in the petstore lol :D just to compare. Also listened to what other people thought...But it all comes down to what you can afford and what your dogs do best on. You may find a food that suits all your dogs or just some of your dogs....Just do alot of comparing and I'm sure you will come to your own idea....Put somethings in search and I'm sure you will come up with alot of talk on dogfoods on this site cause we all know there has been alot lol :D For mine Nutro Natural works and well Purina never did caused the poo's big time in my crew, I have tried plenty. Just like I can't use the chicken I have to stay with the lamb because some got the poo's, much easier for me to buy one kind they all do great on instead of two different kinds.

Your always going to have people saying its bad or its good (I'm sure I even done it ;) ) but in the long run its what you feel comfortable feeding....You could always try it for 6 months and decide from there.

Not sure if this is of any help :)
link

Hi - I have to agree with the person who mentioned Ethoxyquine in Hills and Eukanuba.  My Flatcoat has polycystic kidney disease and the vet recommended Hills Science k/d.  Great!  Firstly she wouldn't eat it, secondly it contains Ethoxyquine which is a pesticide.

I now have her on Burns which is holistic, no chemicals or preservatives.  She is doing well.

I have read a great deal on these foods recently and will never again feed a dog on foods which contain pesticides if I can help it.

My vet agreed she had no idea what was actually in the food!!

Oops,is it proctor & gamble,not palmolive colgate?!!

Some folk shop by their wallets and leave their concience at the door :(

Hi all

Having had further conversations with experienced BARF feeders I've decided to give this another go - I kind of feel that it makes sense and I don't really want to chop and change my dogs diets with different complete foods. At least with the BARF diet I will know exactly what they are getting.

Yvonne

I think in an ideal world we would all like to use the barf way of feeding but the modern way of life some times will not allow all of us the time .That why i have chosen to seek out what I consider to be the best alternative a dry food that's made by a small firm (Trophy )
That tells me exactly what's in the food and is not owned by large profit driven companys who spend millions on advertising and  50p on ingredients ,at least you have given up on the  likes  of Hills. Now if only Vets would look a bit more at what they recommend based on the  content of the food and a little less at how much profit they make on the food they sell we  might all be on to a winner.

My vet is refusing to stock science diet ,as it will soon be available in the supermarkets here,which has put a few vets off of carrying it,i hope the rest will follow.

christine

With all the things that go on it the world of dogs, to say nothing of other animals and things in the world as a whole, I find it really hard to understand why some of us get so worked up about what we feed our dogs and the constant harking back to the same old theme. One sometimes gets the idea that unless you feed in the same way as the person posting you must be doing it wrong.

People should feed as they see fit, there is no one correct way, dogs do not live as long as humans so something that has time to build up in us and cause harm does not in the dog. No dog food manufacture is going to make a food that does not produce at least acceptable fit and healthy dogs. And no one should criticise others for what they chose to spend their money on, some can't afford the very expensive, some do not have the knowledge or the supplies to feed BARF and others do not care who produces the food their dogs do well on and that is up to them.

Fine to say what you use, or if someone asks to make a suggestion, but why does every discussion on food turn into a crusade. Only one or two of the members of this forum have any training in animal nutrition, and they are worth reading, but even then they will have their views on what is best and we, who own the dogs, have to decide if the best is so much better that we need to change the way we feed.

I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that what's the point in having a forum if people get upset about the comment. We are all free to make valid point's debatable points or silly points thats  the beauty of free speech. On the subject of us living longer than dogs we are also as a race living longer because we have improved our diet .Humans have the knowledge to also improve the diet of dogs and therefore improve their live span. We humans domesticated dogs, keep them as pets and owe them a duty of care. A few years ago no one cared what we feed cows. Until BSE hit the headlines. some  farmers were feeding the cheapest form of feed they could get their hands on not caring what was in it ITS CHEEP, THE COWS EAT IT WITHOUT COMPLAINT, IT MUST BE O.K.  it  only became a problem to us humans when it came into the human food chain and the link was made to BSE . I am 100% convinced that people would soon take an interest in their ingredients of dog food if something like BSE started to effect dogs and give the fact that a lot of dog foods contain animal derivatives and certain cemicals  that day might not be to far off .I believe (only my view not a crusade) that at the end of the day large manufactures in any industries look firstly at A/ profit b/ how to make more profit. C/how do we reduce our costs? Cheep unregulated ingredients are just one of those methods.-Jo. Ps I am currently doing a course on animal nutrition on line .I  like to know what I am talking about.

Perhaps as you are relatively new to the forum you are unaware that this subject is brought up time and time again and some of the people who post on such threads seem to think that there is only one way to feed and that is the way they do. Yes, I know, I don't have to read it and in future I probable wont.

Sorry   for being the new kid on the block No I have not read all the posting on this subject but the original question asked for an  option on Hills, did not realize their was a qualifying period before you could give one-jo

Hi just something that occured to me from your post but when did dogs start to live longer ?when they were fed table scraps and little care was given? When the commercial diet was introduced and people started to believe that dogs should be vacinated regularly and advances where made in veterinary medicine.Or when people started analysing theirs and their dogs diet?(i'm not saying this is bad)
I feed BARF myself but also believe that preaching which some posters do to people (not meaning any offence to anyone)will not help.The vast majority of posters on here love cherish and do the best they can for their dogs it may not be the way I would do it but it doesn't make them anyless caring or a bad owner. JMHO Gillian