I can also buy over-priced, hyped up biscuits though, even if of the same quality as a cheap brand......Folks will pay more thinking they are better.....If all biscuits were the same price, as long as not broken, which to me would mean health wize relating to dogs...Those expensive biscuits would just be seen as a rip off.....

But broken biscuits may have the same ingredients as the whole ones, but they don't look the same ...
;)

JG You argue a good case :) As always

Karen

as far as the pups in the same litter costing the same, there is nothing to dispute.  in the US anyhow, a reputable breeder has a litter and each pup is evaluated on many levels.  there are usually mostly "pet quality" and sometimes one or two "show quality.".  the pet ones are great pure-bred dogs, however, they may have some tiny fault that keeps them from being "show quality".  this is why not everyone has a show quality champion dog.  there just aren't that many of them, even if a litter is bred by two champion dogs.  anyhow, this is not an arguable fact here, it is the way it is.

So you keep charging less for your biscuits with all the same ingredients, and others will sell biscuits with the same ingredients, add a fancy name and a hefty price tag.....
Shame you can't seem to grasp what you are doing....

At least we agree all you are concerned about is the look.......

skyeye, yes, most of the breed standards are based on the look of the dog.  there are certain and very specific traits and things that are for each breed.  some breeds have eye standards, some don't.  anyhow, that is what it is about as far as your dog winning championships in a show ring.  if you just want a pet dog and don't mean to show it, then it doesn't really matter what it looks like.  that is why my pup is from a shelter.  i just wanted a companion, not a show dog.

<<and others will sell biscuits with the same ingredients, add a fancy name and a hefty price tag.....>>

Sadly the con-men will, yes. And gullible Joe Public will fall for it. :( That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I'll stick with being honest, thanks.
:)

Doesn't make it right....but your very actions  make it more possible.......

.....and not so honest although with respect , im sure you have the best intentions....you cannot charge more for a pup and say it will be show quality at such an early age....If i paid "going" rate for a pup from yourself and it did not make it in the show ring...what would you say......specially if a friend had its litter mate that did make it in the show ring, but was charged less as you thought it only desireable as a pet/broken biscuit... .......

If Joe public is to understand the price drop in certain pups is due to them being pet only quality due to faults surely they would imagine a more highly priced pup to be of exceptional quality.....

You seem to misunderstand, Skyeye. I wouldn't charge over the odds for a potential show pup (and nobody can say that a young pup is better than that, because so many things can go wrong), but I would charge less for one that would never ever make a show/breeding prospect. It would still be a perfectly healthy pup, and reared to the very best of my ability. But mismarks, non-standard colours, blue eyed pups (in my breed, bad faults) etc are not 'special' and therefore more costly. Many breeders wouldn't even register them.

No, i don't understand... I said the going rate, not that you would charge over the odds, but just as you re-stated you would ask less for a non-show dog...

You said it all in this sentence... "It would still be a perfectly healthy pup" that should be, imo, the bottom line..not lower/higher prices for minor faults, (SBT's anyway)

I agree they are not special and should not be more costly........or more cheap.

Skyeye, the 'going rate' in a breed is generally a price range - in my breed £350 - £450 is about the 'going rate', with the top figure being for a well-bred, well-marked pup with bilateral hearing and show and breeding potential. The lower figure is for a well-bred, not-so-well-marked pup, or one with unilateral hearing, so not suitable for breeding. Patched, extremely lightly marked pups, those with one or two blue eyes, or non-standard colours might well be less. All these would make perfectly healthy dogs, but some have less 'breed type' (which is what pedigree stock breeding is all about) than others.
:)

Ahhh, so the pup wouldnt actually be lower priced than the going rate...? Just the bottom end of it..Thats fair enough...

Maybe it was myself just blindly arguing....mmmm couold be, kids broke up and all that...
Was feeling a little vulnerable i guess, The mad price i hate......

Lol, maybe i should have spent my time argueing with the breeder that asks £1200...
I think im actually getting what you are saying.....and con men will con folks regardless of any measures...

Sorry JG, SD if any of my posts came across the wrong way...as blue staffs are a little close to home.....also a little fired up as i hate to see someone ripped off....although i guess a fool and his/her cash are easily parted...cant nursemaid the world....

Find it hard to express myself with text..
So, i'll step out now...

No hard feeling on my end towards anyone......Thanks for the chat....

<<also a little fired up as i hate to see someone ripped off>>

I agree absolutely! Charging more than a pup is worth is a rip-off! If the going rate for staffs is £400 - £500 (I haven't checked) then no matter what the colour, it shouldn't cost more than that. A poor example of a staff should therefore cost less. That's not ripping anyone off - quite the opposite.

Jeanjeanie, Can I ask why breeders would not register mismarked ones? is that common in your breed do you think?

Just wondered?  :-)

Pam

But if a house has been built to a lesser quality then less time has been put in ;-) so it is worth less...  unlike puppies they are all all reared the same.  ( or should be)

I have seen some very nice blue staffies, but they were Irish dogs and all had bluey-green eyes, which IMO suits the colour, but of course if youre talking KC dogs is a no-no as the standard states dark eyes.

seems a bit discriminatory against blue really as a large portion of blue dogs do have light eyes.

I personally like the colour. we have a blue/white pied mastiff cross who has very unusual white eyes, hes an absolute stunner! but I dont think its right to charge these phenomenal prices, I mean £1200 is excessive!! as someone else rightly pointed out, the people breeding for blue will think they have found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!! I think it would be a good idea to find out who this breeder is, as they obviously know something  other staffie breeders dont !!! how to rip people off! 

blues are hard to get unless you breed blue x blue, but that does not give an excuse to charge these sorts of prices

also, has the price gone up by £300 in the last day or something? as I see the guest has started another thread now asking if its OK to pay £1500, has the world gone mad? lol! :-)

52 posts take this debate to the trisha show lol

Rofl @ Staffy Lee

skyeye, jg is right about all of this, and so am i.  i cannot believe that you have not encountered this kind of "going rate" price range if you know anything about buying pups from a reputable breeder.  this is just the way it works.  of course you cannot garaunteee that a dog will be a show dog, but you can pretty much count out the ones that won't make it to stardome.  this means that they will not win championships.  they still will be valuable, lovely dogs.  that is all there is to this. there is just no contesting it.  call any "reputable" breeder you want to and ask.

Huh, where did i say i had not encountered it? Where did i imply that i did not know that this is how things work, kc world anyhow.....hardly makes it right though.....
jg and yourself are right, in your opinion anyway,this a dictatorship....? ....i am free to not agree with you? no?

Read the whole thread, i am not the only one that thinks they all should have the same price!
My reasoning is that this practise makes it more difficult for folks to charge way over the odds, for their "rare" colours etc...large size etc.....I AM RIGHT lol, no mark up or down for cosmetics.....sends out the wrong message.......
Surely you have come across this before....There are breeders that charge the same for each pup...
I am amazed that you can not at least comprehend my point, regardless of if you agree with it or not........

Lol the last 2 dogs i have purchased off reputable breeder's,met one of them from the breeders page on here 2 and half years ago actually.... they both were charging the same price for each of the litter mates......Guess cash is just not the driving force in my circle....seems to be the all and end all with JG and yourself though shelterdog.....akin to charging over the odds...

The only way to change things.....is to contest them.....
What do you suggest to try and end  the extreme markups....havent noted one suggestion yet...just want to argue with me..crazy thing is if only you could see it is my intentions are surely good......and health related, your reasoning just comes down to cosmetics....cosmetics (rare) is the reason given for extreme prices.....
sigh.............

Knew that you would not be converted, if common decency had  prevailed though , at least we could have had a more constructive chat....was actually hoping someone here would have better suggestions on how to do what is actually best for the breed...

You just want to "win" and say youre right....i was trying to make it more difficult for con men....If you could get over argueing with me, and tell me how you would do this..

I guess no-one you know would get ripped off, as long as you and yours are ok...why worry about others eh? Dig your head in the sand, say all is ok how things are atm....a month or 2 (if that)and you'll get another over the odds price......You'll curse the breeder/seller/buyer what will you do top try and prevent it reoccuring though...Things arent so fine with the setup atm...

and please....they may not win "kc" championships...Omiting the kc part made your statement false...there are other shows to be entered where they would be more than welcome...as long as fit and healthy....

The more correct something is, the more it should be able to stand criticism and contest...

How can charging less be in any likened to having cash as the over-riding principle, Skyeye? Quite the opposite! It's the ones who charge 'full price' for sub-standard puppies that are guilty of that (like one commercial breeder I investigated many years ago. All her puppies cost the same - the healthy ones and the sickly ones ...).

<<What do you suggest to try and end  the extreme markups>> - We don't mark up - we mark down. We don't con people into thinking their pup is worth more (in monetary terms) than it actually is, unlike those who charge a blanket-rate regardless of quality ...

healthy vs sickly is another point entirely...

In the scenarios i mentioned all pups were equally healthy...

I know you mark down,and understand your reasoning, but then someone comes along that marks up, justifying it with a cosmetic reason...and could be equally convincing...(or else they wouldnt keep doing it if they could not  convince people)

The blanket rate would be fair , this assumes all pups are equally healthy.....as previously mentioned,with staffs, if it is a good breeder they all should have show potential anyway....

Again, What do you suggest to try and end  the extreme markups? Not accusing you of marking up, i am asking you what could be done to help put a stop to it...my suggestion was the blanket rate, you dont have to agree, but an alternative would be nice.........

Hi We could suggest loads of thing to try and stop the extreme mark-ups, however going back the original poster, even if he decides not to buy the pup for £1200, somebody else will, so then the breeder will have another litter and charge the same regardless.

Alison

The best way to end the extreme mark-ups is for people not to pay those prices! If people won't buy ("A pound of apples at £50? You're having a laugh!") then the price won't be charged. However for that to work you are depending on people being wise enough to do their homework on what they want (just as they would when buying a car or a washing-machine) and be prepared to shop around.

But, human nature being what it is, they won't. They have to get a puppy 'now', and they believe the conman's hype that the non-standard is 'rare' and therefore valuable, not realising that it is rare because it is faulty goods, and therefore unusual ... but less valuable ...

It is down to purchasers to stop the conmen.

Archer wrote on the other thread before it was locked,

>> I have never seen a good example of a staffy that is blue(or blue and white).Maybe its because the breeders of these dogs were breeding for colour rather that conformation. <<

Wonder if it is just that or if the gene that carries blue also carries whatever makes eyes pale and the conformation less than good.

Sorry to drag this thread back as I know it had moved on to another subject, that of the pricing of pups.

i think you are right jackie H, blue seems to produce pale eyes and blues can suffer from CDA meaning they lose fur on their ears, bellies etc. as far as conformation goes I wouldnt like to say that blues have less than perfect conformation, as the blues I have seen have been gorgeous! but, as I said in earlier post, they were Irish staffie dogs which are a different kettle of fish alltogether.

LOL your right, a Staffie with the conformation of a ISBT would be a bit of a worry.