Hi,

Ive just changed from Bakers Complete onto Pedigree Complete Helthy Appetite for Small Dogs. Just wondering if anyone had any oppinions on the food. Would be good to hear your experiences.

Ben :)

Pedigree is not a food i would ever feed my dogs,to many questionable,gross ingredients.
There are too many more super premium foods to choose from,there is no need to feed an inferior food such as pedigree! I would stay away from any pet food that you can buy in a supermarket.

christine

All I can say is,  if it suits your dogs then, stick with it.
Christine most people want to do their best for their pets, but do no have the time/knowledge to feed raw.
At the end of the day dogs will do well on foods you, may/may not/ feed your dog, let people choose without putting them off.

liberty

Ozzi,

I understand where you're coming from, but I agree with what liberty is saying. I have the time to feed raw, but not the knowledge, I am looking it up at the moment, its called BARF isnt it?

Does BARF work for really fussy dogs also? He is the fussiest eater in the world, nothing that I have made him, when I first got him he wouldnt eat, I put this down to the excitment and he would eat when he was hungry. This turned out not to be the case, I took him the vets to see if there was a underlying problem and he was fit as a fiddle (what does that saying mean anyway, lol). I went through a variety of foods for him, and found that he loved Ceasar. Upon getting him Rabies vaccinated the vet asked what his food was and I told him. I was advised not to feed this to him as it was meant for senior dogs and was full of preservatives, basically he reffered to it as him eating MacDonalds everyday. This was the only food I could get him to eat. So I had to try and find something else. I eventually got him onto Bakers complete, as the vet reccomended anything Purina to me. Then I was told by a few people from here that it is full of salt and not really a good food to feed your dog.

I must admit that the only reason I bought it was because of the advert, lol, im such a advertisers dream ;) and he seems to enjoy it, but still odesnt eat as much as he should. He's a terrier and imho looks  underweight. Im sure that different dogs of the same breed eat differently, but I would like to think that I could put a bit of weight on him.

Dont get me wrong though, he is full of energy, bright eyes, good teeth and coat, but looks skinny. MAybe its just me being paranoid about him being skinny though, I mean terriers are meant to be lean anyway, and he is healthy. I just wish I could get him to eat regularly and 2 good sized meals a day. Reading back on this it seems im doing this more for me than for him.

I would spend any money and any time to make sure that he was happy and healthy, so feeding raw is not a problem. Ill have a search on the internet for it now.

Kind Regards

Ben

Ben,
Get into the habit of reading the labels.  what you want to see is Meat or maet meal as one of the first ingredients.  This is a sign of a higher quality food, as meat is the expensive part,a dn cereal the relatively cheaper part.  Dogs are desiogned to eat mostly meat and bones of the animals they catch or scavenge.

Avoid foods with Artificial colours (they add nothing nutritionally to the food, and can actually cause problems in some dogs), Dogs do not need sugar, so all the ones with the moist chunks are full of it and salt.  sugar will be described as Fructose, Lactose, corn syryp, molasses etc.  Your dog needs none of these.  Also avoid artficial preservatives.  The only preservatives should be Vitamin C and E (Mixed tocopherols).  Now some people like to avoid anything with Best Pulp init as it makes gas (hard to find one these days that soesn't use it) ands some people with itchy dogs prefer to avoid Brewers Yeast.

I persoanlly like Arden Grange, as it is a premium food with minimum of added muck, naturally preserved as any dry fod can be, and has 0one of the highest animal protein contents.  They deliver too.  Their web addy is www.ardengrange.com, I also like Autarky, available at a lot of feed merchants, it has a good meat content, has added herbs and (yes I know after processing they may not be very useful) and the dogs like it, addy www.autarky-foods.com

Gonzo,i had to re-read this statement you wrote twice to make sure i actually read it right "surely it wouldnt be around if it wasnt any good" As long as people keep buying their product then they are going to keep making it!Like i said before the only thing pedigree or purina etc. have going for them are their multi billion dollar advertising claims,thats where their profits go,NOT in their foods!
The brands i use do not advertise very much,and not at all here in Australia,the reason being is because they would rather spend their money on the quality of their products rather than pumping it into advertisments. Have you ever heard of the 4D's?? this stands for Dead,Diseased,Dying,Disabled in other words By-products.By-products range from heads,beaks,hoofs,feaces and feet to roadkill and euthanised dogs and cats,why anybody would want to feed this to their beloved pets is beyond me.Any commercial food NOT starting with an actual meat source i.e chicken,chicken meal is not worth looking at and any company that can afford to sell their products at mega cheap prices is skimping out on something at the huge expense of our pets!
Gonzo you said "you would spend any money" then why are you choosing to feed pedigree? Fussy dogs are not born they are made,i have 2 prime examples sitting at my feet as i type ;) Before having shih-tzu's i had always owned big dogs,primarily Rotties,who would hoover up anything i put before them,when my tzu's came to live with me i assumed they would be the same hence when they refused to touch a food i put down for them i promptly changed it for another and then when they went off of that particular food which was usually within a couple of days,i then changed it to another food and so on and so on until i created a pair of monsters who wouldnt even bother getting up of the couch to see what i had put down for their meal,i could have put down 50 bowls of 50 different brands of food and they still wouldnt touch it coz they knew if they held out long enough i would give them something even better.It got to the point that i was on the floor coo chi coochi cooing to them trying to force a piece of kibble down their throats because they hadnt eaten for half a day,the last straw came when i just fell to the floor crying tears of frustration,i had let these dogs take over my life and dictate to ME what the rules were,it wasnt as if i was serving them a bowl of crap,i spent a fortune,and still do,on the best cuts of organic meats and veggies,not to mention a 3kilo bag of innova costs me $35.00,i was throwing more food away than they ate.To cut a very long story short,i served them up a balanced,nutritious,tasty meal and if they didnt finish it within 20 minutes then i took it away and they got nothing until the next meal!This went on for 2 frustrating weeks,needless to say i now have 2 pretty good aters,they are still not chow hounds but they are a thousand times better then they were!

As for dogs changing over the years,well yes they have but one thing that will NEVER change are their insides,no amount of shovelling artificial,commercial foods down their gullets will ever change that,dogs are designed to eat,rip and tear at raw meat and offals,wether one chooses to feed this way is up to the individual owner,i am not a raw,homemade or commercial pusher,i am a feed a better more natural species approriate diet pusher :D I wouldnt mind  feeding a fully raw diet it's just that my brats prefer slightly sauteed meats and veg but love raw meaty bones which no dog should EVER be denied.

All it takes to feed a better diet is self education,forums like this one and alot of reading and above all common sense.If i couldnt eat it then i'm not going to feed it to my dogs.If you look at an ingredient list on a dog food and cringe or even question a certain ingredient then it is best to look for another food(remember the 4D's)The best foods have the least amount of ingredients.

Well i best end it here before this turns into a book :embarrass:

christine

In the UK euthanased animals are not put into pet food unless handed back to the owner for burial they must be detroyed to clinical waste standards, diseased farm animals are treated in the same way, any abottoir caught passing on such meat to a manufacturer would find themselves in deep do do.  Of course non diseased waste can be passed on to the pet food manufacturers.  Personally I have absolutely no problem with this in fact I believe it would be morally wrong to allow it to be just wasted.

If you run a search on this site, you will find many past threads on BARF. Can we keep this thread about Pedigree please.

Liberty,
Gonzo asked for our opinions on pedigree and i gave him MY opinion,whether he or anyone else decides to take my advice is completely up to them.
I think it's an excellent thing if i can put at least one person "off" of feeding pedigree or any of the other garbage foods available out there.

Like i've said a hundred times before.....Dogs can survive on just about anything we toss into their bowls,but i dont just want my dogs to survive,i want them to THRIVE.No dog or any living being can thrive on cheap,inferior foods.Just take a look at some of the cheaper pet food ingredients that are available,with some of the first ingredients being Maize,Corn,By-product meal~shudder~,wheat widdlings,peanut hulls,it is bad enough that these ingredients are even in our pets foods lettalone being among the top ingredients,anyone who says that these ingredients are good for our pets needs their heads read,i just wouldnt have the concience to feed such foods,it would be alot easier and cheaper but at the massive expense to my dogs,No thanks! I would rather be broke and know that my dogs are fed the best than be rich and feed my dogs life shortening,cancer causing(BHA,BHT,Ethoxiquin preservatives) crap foods.

christine

We feed pedigree to our dogs!  They all do great on it personally.  One of our boys had a problem with high in oil foods such as Nutro and red mills so he had to come off of them and we thought we would try pedigree, and they love it, they all eat, they have good quility coats at last and they all do small poos!!!! :D

Personally I think its fine, yes other people disagree but then I might disagree with their foods...If your dog does well on it and is happy and healthy then I say stay on it!!!!

Hi Gonzo,
Liberty has given the impression that it's either Pedigree or raw!
I agree with Christine, as I wouldn't feed my dog Pedigree but neither do I have the guts to try raw at the moment.  There is a middle ground!  Have a good look around this forum and look at different websites, most of which list ingredients.

the new pedigree range is excellent-----pedigree performance, it seems to suit even picky dogs, give it a try mine are thriving on it.  :)

I use the pedigree food to raise pups and the last 2 litter we have had have done well on the pedigree puppy porridge, then on to the pedigree proffesionsal with really good results.But I have always found that the tinned pedigree foods are to rich and give my dogs the runs, but they are a huge company making vast profits I presume by all the sponserships that they give so they must be doing something right for a lot of dogs. I feed a complete only because of circumstances, mainly Burns, Bones and liquified vegs.but I am giving the other holistic dog food a trial.

Hi,

Thanks for all the different views on this. I would have thought that as Pedigree is a widley used food, that it would be ok. Reading the nutritional information is all well and good, but they do rigorous testing on it, and surely it wouldnt be around if it wasnt any good for dogs. People have said that their dog(s) are thriving on it, and my dog likes it, so I think ill stick to it and see how he gets on, at least for a while anyway. A natural food is for a dog is all well and good, but dogs arnt wild anymore, and they have changed from what they used to be, so I dont know whether nowadays a natural diet is any better for them. In this I mean that they may need the nutrients they're getting from the complete foods now. Just a thought.

I havnt had time to read all of the threads,i will reply fuuly later BUT just for the record...I do not feed BARF,the only raw meats my dogs get are raw meaty bones,i DO feed commercial,in small amounts for their morning meal which is Innova: www.naturapet.com  or eaglepack www.postalpets.co.u.k. and i homeccok for their dinner,only because my dogs arent too keen on any sort of commercial foods!

I have absolutely nothing against feeding commercial foods to our pets,however what i dont agree with is crappy foods such as pedigree etc.  You guys in the U.K dont know how lucky you are,you have a decent range of super premium pet foods,we in Australia have a choice of TWO holistic/natural dog foods! So you have no excuse to feed inferior foods,it makes me so angry when i hear of people feeding bottom of the barrel foods when you all have such a great choice of healthful pet foods.Try living here with your dogs and then you will know how good you have got it,why feed a supermarket brand when you have other so much better choices??I can sort of forgive the Aussie pet owners for feeding these types of foods as the majority of them are extremely un-educated and there is no other choice(the 2 brands i feed do not advertise and are very hard to find) when it comes to pet nutrition,it seems you guys know better than that?? It just doesnt make sense to me??
I would be like a kid in a candy store shopping in your pet shops,please dont take furgranted the excellent choice you guys have.

Until later

christine:)

McDonalds is around, does that make it a healthy nutritious diet for humans?   Children like Coca Cola, does not mean it is good for them :)

Yes pedigree DO do rigorous testing on animals; hence why I would choose a food that does not rely on experimentation on animals (the BUAV site lists the current ones that meet their approval).

What anyone feeds their dogs is entirely up to them using the information available. Unlike many products pedigree do not indicate exactly what the ingredients in their formulae are because they change so you never know what exactly your dog is eating, from which animal etc etc which may be important if your dog has an allergy.  It also contains unecessary sugars and salt, caramel colouring to make the food look good to you, the purchaser as well as several other additives.

If people ask for opinions they will be given; I would not feed any food that contained sugar, salt, caramel, neither would I feed any food that did not specify exactly what was in it,.

There are many many foods on the market; pedigree just happens to be a high profile one, does not mean it is the best, just the best marketed :)

IMHO Burns or Naturediet, is a far healthier option.

If these big pet food manufactures used the Billions of dollars they spend on advertising , sucking pet owners in and spent it on improving their foods thngs would be so much better.

If only McD's would do the same with their 'food' too!
:)

Hi Gonzo,

I have just changed my pup over to BARF, I think the next best thing to this for fussy eaters would be naturediet it is more natural to your dog than eating kibble and is still a complete food, you could also give him a few chicken wings as a treat or a marrowbone from the butchers :)

JMO

Claire

I think even McDonalds would not describe themselves as a complete diet :)

Well said Tohme.  Yet again the voice of reason.

Personally wouldnt touch Pedigree with a barge pole nor if you paid me.  You have no idea what is in it and I am fairly sure if you did you probably wouldnt buy it.  If you can buy it in a supermarket it is generally not good.  If you want to feed your dogs the bits that no one else wants then thats fine.  Personally I think more of my dogs!

Camerons, you have the impression that I said feed pedigree or raw, if you read my post, I actually said if it suits your dog........ and that could mean any food, I personally do not feed pedigree, but neither do I feel the need to attack any dog owner who does.

Well said DVNbiker,you said everything i wanted to in a nutshell,i dont have the talent to say what i want in a short paragraph!
Usually when i say supermarket food is crap,i get blasted for it,but no-one can argure with this fact if they simply read the ingredients and educate themselves a little,some people prefer to turn a blind eye to what is in the dog food they are feeding, ignorance is so much easier than reading for hours and hours and studying the ins and outs of pet nutrition,not to mention easier on the concience and pocket until the time bad nutrition catches up and the vet bills start rolling in!

christine

Christine, you do yourself few favours, with that kind of post. I  shall say again, if a dog is happy on it's food, then don't change it, just because some 'know it all's' post on here.  Championing some new food/ way of feeding :rolleyes:

If your dog is happy, then stay with it, and ignore the folk who would have you believe that their way is the the only way.

liberty

Liberty.what brand of food do you feed??

Christine, I feed a mixture of Pascoes Complete and Nature Diet, at the moment, before that, purely Pascoes, Chappie, Omega, Butchers combination. My Golden should see 15yr old in Dec.

So, your point is????

My point is,it's usually the owners who feed the lower scale foods who kick up a fuss when someone points out the pitfalls of such foods.
You cant be in a debate like this and not share what you are feeding,thats all.I was just curious is all :)

Anyway i can see a padlock looming on this thread which usually happens if a healthy debate starts or if someone disagrees with someone else.God forbid! ;) :D I do not want to see this thread locked as i hope some things will be learnt from reading it.
By the way Liberty what made you think i fed raw?in reference to your first post.

christine

I don't feed lower scale foods to my dogs but I really object to the way "complete" food users (Like myself) are branded as uncaring because we don't sit with a magnifying glass scrutinizing the list of ingredients on every bag of dogfood going. 

My younger 2 dogs WERE fed Burns, they looked terrible on it and their stools were very loose & dark in colour, I know of a few other's who's dogs have been fed Burns and it hasn't agreed with the dog.  I wouldn't recommend Burns!  

The best food for your dog is the one it looks good on and digests properly whether it be cooked, raw, sauteed, microwaved etc.......

I would say that 95% of the top winning showdogs are fed on completes and I don't think they look that bad on them do they?  Likewise, in the line of work I'm in now, we sell a lot of completes to working/farm homes, these owners must be satisfied with how their dogs look on them.

Most BARF feeders are pet people.  I'm not decrying you but why do you think your method is better than those I have listed above?

Hi Lily

Not sure what the statistics are on raw feeding; to be honest I thought all of us were pet owners although some of us have dogs that enjoy other activities as well.

As the majority of dogs in the UK are purely pet (as opposed to working gundogs, those who compete in Field Trials, Working Tests, Working Trials, Agility, Heelwork to Music, Obedience, Flyball, Sledding, showing etc) then it would probably be logical that the majority of raw fed dogs ARE pets.

Speaking from experience and as an owner of a dog that participates successfully in many disciplines, I can say that a great many of my peers do feed raw.

I have always said that there is no ONE food that is best for ALL dogs ALL the time and I have certainly not branded anyone uncaring because of their choice.  All I try to do is to explain what labels/terms ACTUALLY mean and what pros and cons there are to particular options.

Posters often ask for opinions and therefore they will be expressed; sometimes these opinions are based purely on empirical knowledge sometimes they are based on scientific fact; what enquirers do with those opinions/knowledge etc is up to them.

Again those of use who are passionate about subjects, whether it be breeds, methods of training, feeding, sports etc will, naturally, espouse those views which support their own; it is, after all, human nature.

To look at it another way, we could choose either NOT to respond at all or respond in the vein of "who cares, feed what you like, what does it matter to me..............."

All of us want what is best for our dogs otherwise we would not bother to join a forum such as this; often we want what we see as best for ALL dogs too.  The aim is to share knowledge, experience, facts, opinions so that those looking for answers, suggestions, solutions can make more informed decisions based on more complete data than they originally possessed.

I do not have any vested interest in any dog food, I am not an agent, retail owner etc etc etc.

The fact that food is such a big issue is obvious from the hundreds, yes hundreds, of dog foods available all vying for custom and it is natural that those who choose a certain food will support its value (one is hardly likely to say "I feed Pluto but I think it is cr*p" :D ).

I have issues with ALL commercial foods simply because I cannot see that ANY food can contain EVERYTHING for ALL dogs; but that is my choice and I am fortunate that I am able to exercise that option as are all that belong to this board.

Naturally you are not going to recommend Burns because you have had unfortunate personal experiences of it; does not make it a "bad" food just one that is inappropriate for your dogs.  Just as nuts are an inappropriate food for someone with a nut allergy :D

There are downsides to ALL methods of feeding, raw, complete, dry, wet etc etc etc  we choose what we think is best and live with the consequences of that choice.

Well put Tohme :-)
I have found nothing but good advice regarding food and many other issues on this board, if people like yourself and many others have the time and courtesy to answer any posts then people should accept others opinions or dont ask/read in the first place.

Christine, what I feed my dogs is not cost related, as long as they are doing well on it. THAT is what is important to me.
If you are including me in your comment regarding ''Lower scale foods'', then I  am not prepared to get into a discussion on Dog food Snobbery.

I stand by my inital comments, if your dog is doing well on a food, then stick with it, and thats whether it costs £1 or £10.

liberty

Liberty,my comment was directed to whomever does feed lower end foods,not to anyone imparticular.
I am going to say this for the very last time! Dogs can survive and "do well" on just about anything,they are after all scavengers,i've seen dogs do just fine fed on pedigree or purina etc. but i have also seen how great they do when changed to a more species appropriate diet or even a super premium commercial food.

Lily monster,I myself feed commercial foods,i have absolutely nothing against commercial food,i have said this to you time and time and time again. Where have i or anyone else said that people who feed commercial are uncaring,it sounds like you have some issues in your own concience that you need to deal with.As for reading ingredients with a microscope,that is a ridiculous statement,it doesnt take a scientist to know what is good and bad in a pet food.
People can feed whatever they want to their dogs,it's not the owners i am concerned about,it is the dogs i care about!
And if i can help just one person make a more informed choice when it comes to dog nutrition then i think thats a good thing,dont you?

I dont have any right to criticise commercial feeders as i do feed commercial,i would feed more of it too if my dogs would only eat it,obviously they know whats good

Christine, on a lighter vein, it's Lily Munster, not Monster

liberty ;)

Methinks that's been done deliberately Liberty!   Knowing ozzie72 from previous encounters.

Microscope??????  Magnifying glass........

Oops i realised that typo and went back to edit but i took to long and it wouldnt let me change,hence the cut off post above,the "u" is to close to the "o"

Anyway as i was saying......Gosh i forgot was i was saying

I am so very passionate about dog nutrition,i just wish other people were too,after all good nutrition is the foundation of good health,the body will shut down if it doesnt get the fuel it "needs" all it takes is a little self education and common sense.
I pretty much dont feed my dogs anything i could not eat,this is the philosophy i go about when choosing dog foods.

I have a book that contains an excellent article re: this debate from an unbiased author. Right now i MUST take my dogs for a walk,i will post it when i get back,if i can find the book.

christine

Ditto Liberty,

I wonder if if the BARF feeders put as much time & effort into scanning the packets in the local supermarket for their own or their children's food?  Have they ever eaten a McDonalds (I don't because I'm a vegetarian), Burger King etc? 

I know what suits my dogs and what to feed them.  If somebody asks me about the food I will tell them but that's it, I don't stand on my moral high ground and tell them why my food is better than what they feed, it is everyone's freedom of choice as to what they eat, feed themselves, children or their animals.  

Whenever a "branded" food thread comes on, I notice the BARF feeders just can't stop introducing the subject onto the thread.

If your dog likes Pedigree, looks good on Pedigree, why not feed this?     I've heard that the new Professional is very good food and Ive had numerous good reports about it from fellow showgoers, even the most pickiest of dogs seem to be eating it.

That my final say.   It'll erupt into another kibble -v- BARF argument again and I'm not going down that road.

In answer to your questions Lily

Yes I have always put as much effort into reading packets for my own and my children's food (tend not to buy much processed food).

Have eaten a McDonalds but not in the last 9 years :D

Same here tohme,it's become a habit for me to check ingredients on all the foods i buy.Every now and then we have junk food and so do my dogs.

I think i'll make this my last post on this thread,it's starting to give me a headache,i can only bang my head against a brick wall so many times ;)

christine

I find it very sad that yet another thread on complete diets has been highjacked by the anti lobby. I will edit this thread in due course.