we recently visted a breeder having seen an advery for pups availible, when we arrived the breeder had 5 litters with another two on the way, the dogs all seemed in good condition and happy.
was this a puppy farm, or a large scale breeder???

With that many puppies for sale I'd say this person was breeding commercially, for money. This doesn't mean to say the puppies will be badly reared but I would proceed with caution. Have you tried going through a breed club for help finding a good breed. Which breed are you hoping to purchase?

Sorry I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft barge pole....you would just be supporting the production of puppies for financial gain.
These pups may seem to be in good condition but are the parents health tested and they are obviously only bred for money not for the improvement of the breed.
Guest...what breed are you looking for and where are you ...maybe we can help
Archer

As far as the Kennel Club is concerned (if you make enquiries) the terms 'Puppy Farmer' and 'Commercial Breeder' are interchangeable.

I had 4 litters at once this year because all 8 of my bitches came in season within a week of each other. Dosen't make me a puppy farmer though does it?

Depends on how many of the 8 bitches you mated and when you had the litters before this and when you have the next ones and I suppose your reasons for having 4 litters at once, but that is your business and we therefore are not in a position to answer your question, only you can do that.

angienelly
Don't mean to sound rude but you say you mated all 4 bitches because they all came in season at once!...don't see this as a good enough reason..sorry.
I know most people only have one litter at a time and would only have 2 litters on the ground at the same time for exceptional circumstances such as the bitch was getting too old for a first or last litter....not just because the bitches were in season.
Archer

I did say that i had all 8 bitches in season only 4 were mated 2 3year olds for a first litter & 1 7year old for her 3rd & final litter & 1 5year old for her 2nd litter.
I already had people waiting for puppies from these bitches & some had waited well over 2 years, it is hard work looking after them all especially when they are in the home!NOT a kennel. I am keeping a pup back from each litter to run on until 6 months old+ so imagine the fun there.

People could well think i was a puppy farmer until they visit & see the dogs & how well cared for they are & i also allow them to see my breeding records if they wish.

I can think of many top show people who have lots of litters in their kennels at once, & many of you probably would use their stud dog or buy a pup from them etc................... would you class them as a puppy farm? I think not.

I am aginst puppy farming & the churning out of puppies for a 'living' but thats not to say i will accuse someone of being a puppy farmer without looking into all the details or reasons for having alot of litters at once. Personally i think i can tell a puppy farmer from a good breeder.

Guest if you do think they are 'puppy farming' then walk away, don't buy because you feel sorry for the puppies, & report them to the correct authorities.

Angienelly.  I wouldnt think you are a puppy farmer.  The trouble is many people these days forget that in the past there were alot of "Big kennels" out there one for instance that springs to mind  was the Great Dane Kennel that the late Bill Siggers used to manage.  I think at one time there were something like 100 danes in the kennels.  How many litters a year were produced?  They were never considered to be "Puppy Farmers" just one of the greatest kennels of Danes that has ever exisited.  Times have however changed and there are very few kennels like this around today.  Anyone that breeds more than say 2 litters a year are considered to be puppy farming.  Anyone that breeds 2 litters on the trot from the same bitch (even if it is nearly 12months since the last litter) are considered to be puppy farming.  What people fail to realise is that a bitch that is not in "breeding condition" will not conceive.  Mother nature is a wonderful thing you know.  If bitches all come into season at the same time and you have valid reasons for breeding from them then I can see know problem in that. 

<<What people fail to realise is that a bitch that is not in "breeding condition" will not conceive.>>

If only that were true.

Yes, there were in the past big kennels with very many dogs. They also produced many litters. They were (the famous ones anyway) producing high-quality stock who did well in the showring, either for them or for their buyers. They also exported quality stock to improve their breeds around the world.

We've all seen the appalling conditions in which many puppies are produced. If those bitches are in "breeding condition" (ie how we'd keep our own bitches) then we should all be shot.

Actually Molly1 in days gone by we had a FEW big breeding kennels breeding pedigree dogs and very few ordinary people at all breeding pedigree dogs and generally speaking they were rather better informed than the average person these days. You could walk around here and count the pedigree dogs on one hand so were it not for the people with the money to be able to breed then there would be very few pedigree dogs around.

As for nowadays, I would not judge a person without seeing them but I would question their motives behind mating 4 dogs at the same time. To me it would appear un-necessary. Maybe if a person particularly wanted to have a last litter from an oldie, but then the first mating could have been delayed for a few months until the next season. So saying, they could have very good reason.

As I said, I would not judge without seeing but I would want answers before buying.

John

Very good point, John, about the way breeding has changed. In 'the old days' with the big kennels there were far fewer people breeding pedigree dogs at all. They were much less common than they are now - most people who wanted a dog were more than happy with a mongrel - I know we were! A pedigree dog was much less affordable than now, and most people wouldn't contemplate breeding from them.

The JV Rank Kennels that Bill managed were different to the puppy farmers of today, They employed lots of kennel hands, I mean lots(bill did once tell me how many but I can't remember). Breedings were carefully planned & the the dogs & puppies feed the best of foods & exercised correctly. The dogs did live longer unless taken by distemper then too.

To be able to buy a puppy you were grilled at length & to own an JVR bred Dane was a real privilege

I lent Bill's book to a "friend"who lent it on & it was lost- a great upset to me

The JVR kennels
JVR kennels 2

Molly1, :-)

""Anyone that breeds more than say 2 litters a year are considered to be puppy farming.  Anyone that breeds 2 litters on the trot from the same bitch (even if it is nearly 12months since the last litter) are considered to be puppy farming.  ""

I have never heard this before and not on here.  I think even if at times things get heated on here nobody has every said anything like this UNLESS the person is breeding for the wrong reasons. So whether they have 1 litter or 5 it would be the same if it were for the wrong reasons.

I think anyone with a bit of understanding and some inteligence understands if, for the right reasons some breeders  have a couple litters a year. 

I guess another thing to look at especially if you are showing and only breeding for something to show is you may have small litters, so possibly out of 2 small litters you only get 1 that really is what you want for the showring but will run on 2 or 3.  larger breeds who have large numbers maybe get 2 or 3 good ones out of a litter of 10.    Some small large breeds produce 4 times what a small breed does. 

Anyway I thought your comments slightly clouded what people were trying to say.

I think we all agree when negative comments are made they are 100% not directed at the genuine breed enthusiasts :-)

You say

"I am keeping a pup back from each litter to run on until 6 months old+ so imagine the fun there."

How are you going to give each of these pups individual attention and training when they need it?  At the moment I have one puppy aged 5 months and she takes up an awful lot of time to have the individual attention and training she needs.  I once kept two puppies from the same litter, it meant I couldn't start obedience classes as early with one as the other and meant I was trying to do show training with two at once rather than one.  All very hard work, the thought of trying to do it with 4 and give each the attention it deserves horrifies me.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

if you had those four litters purely for profit then yes it does !

Yvonne

You are running very close to the line in all respects, one if you allow one of your bitches to produce another litter within a 12 month period from when your first had its litter this year you will need to apply for a dog breeders licence from your local Council. It is possible you will also need to have planning permission to operate a business from your private address. Failure to comply could result in operating a breeding establishment without a licence which is a prosecutional offence.

Next, what in heavens sake are you going to do with 4 litters of puppies, are you prepared to take them back if the purchaser is not happy with their puppy for whatever reason? Do you have room for the more than 8 bitches and any returned puppiess?  Can you ensure that each bitch will produce a healthy litter - what if they didn't, what then?  The Country is over loaded with dogs and puppies that people have bred and purchased often a whim, the rescues are overflowing, dogs are destroyed daily for nothing more than no one wanting them and yet people continue to breed often for the sake of it or monetary gain. Why breed another litter from a 7 year old when you already are breeding from 3 others? Sorry, this whole breeding thing does not make sense to me and then people say I love my animals - my dogs but can you ensure they will not end up sometime during their life as unwanted - I very much doubt it. Please think before you do it, there is already too much suffering.   

This is a side issue, but the main reason that concientious breeders and dog lovers are against commercial breeding.

If someone is breeding for financial gain as the primary motive they are going to try and minimise costs and maximise profit.

As they can get away with it, this may mean skimping on health tests, feeding the cheapest food, which may be adequate, but hardly optimum.  The main deficiency may just simply be the amount of time spent with the pups.  Pups are hard work and soiclisation takes time.  How can you cuddle 5 litters of pups at one time?  Puppies are not farm animals, most are destined for a busy family home, and the more exposure they have had to such situations the less likely there are to be problems wityh the pup coping later on.

Also these people will often buy in litters from even less caring breeders for resale, as maybe they are better placed to sell them, perhaps having a shp or boarding kennels, whetre they are guaranteed to have a lot of passing trade.

It really annoys me when people looking for a puppy say I just want a pet.  That is what any pup will be including those that are top examples of their breed.  The breeder should be striving to produce the best breed type they can with excellent temperaments.  If they necer see the ring, they can be proud that they have produced top class pups, and that the owners have something that really is the breed they were hoping for.

We all also know that often people a couple of years down the line deside to have a go at showing their pet, and some have done extremely well, and become more involved with their breed.

The biggest bugbear apart from the poor quality of the stock being produced, and sold fr little or no less than top class specimins is the lack of breeder back up and responsibility for the pups beyond date of sale.

Most breed rescues deal with the fall out from these places.

When looking at these litters imagine if it was you who had bred them.  Would you have time to look after that many pups.  Most people find it really hard looking after just one baby pup!

In reply to the first question on this thread.

They need to be licensed either as a dog breeder or as a pet shop if they are 'buying in' puppies to resell. Check with the Council Environmental Health Department. If they are not Licensed then perhaps the Council should be investigating why they are selling 5 litters of puppies without one of the above.

Not a direct reply to angienelly, but as a some time puppy purchaser, I would not buy from her. Do not think that a breeder can socialise 2 litters never mind 4. And if I found out that the person I was thinking of buying a puppy from had 4 litters available then, yes, I would think them a puppy farm because it is not possible to give the required attention to that number of puppies. Know in time past large kennels with a lot of staff would do this but they were not producing for the pet market and if they were may be the requirements and understanding of puppy rearing has changed. I expect my new puppy to be used to domestic noise and also a variety of people of a variety of ages.

Hi, this is one of my pet hobby horses, we get fixated on size not quality of care!  Have said on a number of other posts, you can have puppy farm mentatility and methods with only a couple of bitches, in the family kitchen!  ON the other hand, some of our top show kennels (and yes, I am attatched ot one of them) do breed several litters at a time, possibly from 2 or 3 different breeds.  However, they have people on hand, 24 hours, to tend, care for and socialise the litters.  We often run on several pups, either from the same litter or several litter sof similar ages.  ALL the pups we breed are extremely well cared for and socialised.  Ww have the advantage of having a whole lot of us "in partnership' so to speak, and the pups are often lead trained etc by one of our partners.  It is dangerous to generalise simply on numbers, our breeding record speaks for itself - of one of the recent litters Mike ran on, 1 puppy we kept won the Puppy Stakes at blackpool a couple of weeks ago, and his litter brother has just been awarded Winners dog at the Summer national out in Indianapollis.  The sister also did well at Blackpool, in the breed.  I dont think any of these pups could have acheived these honours if they were not confident and trained!

I am not coming out in favour of puppy farms and dealers - I am complletely opposed to them, but numbers are not the best way to decide if someone is a puppy farmer/mill.  The quality of care, the standard of the dogs, the knowledge and dedication of the owners, these are much more important.  I  know it is very hard for the general public to differentiate, and it is certainly not impossibel for a show breeder to also be a puppy farmer, but if you find a breeder who has consistently excellent results in the ring, and is breeding the breed they themselves show, and selling pups as pets from the matings which also produce the show pups, why should they be written off?  It is much more important to be able buy from someone who can tell you the history of their dogs (including detailed health results) going back generations, show you test results, have healthy,  well cared for, well balanced, clean, socialised pups from high quality parents that themselves are temperamently and physically excellent representatives of the breed, as demonstrated by years of show (or working success).

I dont know if the kennel the original poster has all of this, I do know that lots of top breeder do.  I also know that lots of superb dogs come from much smaller scale breeders.  It is the standards which count, not the numbers.  A lot of different breeds, often with no dams available to view, should certainly sound warning bells, ask more questions and walk away if the answers dont sound right, but dont necessarily discount someone just on numbers, and conversly dont automatically assume that someone with just one litter at home will be a good breeder!
bye
Gwen

My point of view entirely Gwen hence the post re the Rank dogs They had dogs up into the hundreds but had loads of help & all the dogs were given superb care Their behaviour in the ring is an indication of the quality of care as well as their physical appearance

Noone breeds for the show ring in the same numbers nowadays as the cost of help would be astronomical but successful breeders like Mike for example have to have the highest standard of care etc for their dogs otherwise they would not go on winning & prodiucing such lovely outgoing dogs(got mugged by one of his yankees that he had sold at Darlington a couple of years ago-she was flirting outragsously with one of my cavaliers-no puppy farm dog would turn out like her)

Yes the dogs may be kennelled but the kennels will be of a very high standard Not everyone can house all their dogs in the house. My BC's were born in a kennelled environment & settled straight into the house because they had been reared & socialized correctly. Some breeds do not kennel well Cavaliers for one, yet others can take or leave the kennel without affecting their temperament(A local Ch Sh winning Cavalier breeder has their dogs kennelled & it shows in the dogs behaviour-very unsure & clingy as puppies rather than the usual bustling style. They do breed an awful lot & always have puppies-to me they do border on the puppy farm as they do not test their dogs)

Thats exaclty it, isnt it Moonmaiden, the "not testing".  Now that is certainly one of the warning signs we can point puppy buyer to watch out for, I cannot think of one valid reason why any breeder, in a breed which has tests available for hereditary conditions, would not use them, so that would immediately put up a "warning flag".  Teh number thing has never seemed at all valid to me.  I really cant think of any other field in which professionalism is automaticaly assumed to be a bad thing by a large portion of those invovled in it!  I I do mean professionalism, not comercialism.  to be professional is to treat dog breeding with the degree of importance it deserves.  And if you are devoting your entire life to it, I think you should be able to take pride in your methods and achievemtns, not have to justify and excuse them simply on a numbers cirteria! 

A lot of the time, we (meaning the regular posters on this board) answer questions in a very absolute way, without thought that any way other than out own can be either a)acceptable or b) the norm for anyone else.

I dont personally know anginelly (hope I spelt it correctly), and I dont know the breed referrred to.  However, I have succesfully raised 3 litters, all within a few weeks of each other in age, very succesfully.  However, I have the advantage of being permenantly on the premises (work from home, and very part time at that) and have the benefit of 2 staff members too.  So I can honestlyl say I believe my pups (all small or toy breeds, small litters) got as much time devoted to them, and as much in house and outside socialisation, as any puppy could have or needs.  And wiht these 3 litters we are talking about 8 pups, the total or less than some would have in 1 litter anyway.  I have trouble seeing how people who work full time, (and I know there are a lot of them in the dog game) and have a family, can manage to care for and rear litters.  I know poeple take time off for the first days/week or two, but I woul not be happy withjust that time.  However, I do them the justice of believing that they may come up with coping strategies, rather than dismissing them out of hand.
bye
Gwen

The time reason is the very one that stops me having bitches & breeding I used to take all my holidays & accrued extra days off which was around four/five weeks plus I had a canine partner who did not work & then spent every other waking moment with the puppies-it actually used to make me ill-fatigue & total collapse after one litter.

The guy I hope to get another BC from is S/E working with his dogs & spends hours alonmg with his wife when he has a litter or two together(usually the back end of the year to avoid the lambing season)He does every test possible & really cares about his dogs(he has just taken a returned puppy from a show breeder(dog is dual registered) to work with-he calls him his poncy dog but admits he is a worker !!! lol)

The Cavalier breeder who does not test denies any resposnsiblity for producing defective puppies & has a clause in their sales receipts-but Cavaliers are a commerical breed so people buy because they are so desperate to get a puppy-me I wait until the right puppy is born-even if it taks 2 + years. They have upto five litters at a time & are Local Auth licenced(kennels are lovely & clean but very clinical)

If you are a member of a large organisation where there are enough people and enough homes to bring the pups up in then it does not apply. I was saying that one person in one home can't deal with up to 48 puppies at the same time. You may just about be able to clean and feed them but there would be little time for anything else unless you had staff that were willing to take the whelping bitch into their own home. Know there are some groups of people who work under the same name but from different premises and that is a different situation. Even with the toy breeds is it possible to bring the litters into the heart of the home for rearing, may be it is but I would have thought the dams would have found that stressful.

I am not suggesting that the dams and puppies are not given every care but having bought pups from breeders who have more than one litter and do a sort of rotation and those who rear the litter in the family room I am aware of the difference and if your main requirement of your puppy is to have a family pet I know where I would be looking to purchase from. If my main consideration was for the show ring and I had staff to help look after my dogs then I would be and have been and even may be in the future, happy to take a litter from a breeder who have more than one litter at a time, rotating the pups from kennel to kitchen to the exercise yard or play room.  But it is not the ideal in most cases and you do need to know what you are looking at and be clear in your own mind what you want. It would have to be a very special mating for me personally to consider a puppy from a litter when that litter was one of more than 4 or more.

Yes of course you would expect for the normal tests to have been done and the breeding stock to be of breeding quality, that goes without saying, it is the quality of the early upbringing that seems to matter.

But this may be the case here......we dont know.  Many many kennels employ staff to look after their show dogs, breeding stock, puppies etc.  Also another factor to consider is alot of breeders prefer to breed in the summer.  Summer puppies are in some ways easier to look after, what with the longer daylight hours and for some reason (IMO) seem to do better than winter puppies.
In an ideal world we would all have our puppies indoors from day one.  I have mine outside in a kennel.  People are not allowed to touch them unless they are going to their new homes.  Prospective owners view them and decide by looking into the playpen or kennel which one they want.  The puppy is then marked but the new owner does not get the oppurtunity of touching the puppy until they come to collect it.  Might seem hard to some but I dont know where these people have been before they came to see me.

Blimey! I wouldn't buy a puppy I hadn't handled, examined it's mouth, checked for hernia etc! I would wonder what the breeder had to hide. Just my opinion.

Me neither JG, I would walk away without a puppy

There is no hard and fast rule between breeders you have to look and see, and no I would not consider a puppy I had not handled and seen passed to another person and playing with it's litter mates and with his dam. And yes I want my puppy to have spent at least a good part of his time in the home, in the past I would forgo that for a good show prospect but not now, my dogs are 99% pets and in my view a home bred pup is best for my purpose. Would not be interested in a kennel bred pup no matter how good it was.

Unless I could handle the puppy and perform all of the tests I always perform when selecting a puppy then I would consider it a waste of my time even bothering to go. I do not select my puppies on looks alone and I would recommend that no one else does.

John

But what about bringing in diseases?  I would quite happily show the mouth, show that no hernia was there.  I dont want all and sundry handling my puppies thats all.  My puppies can be seen playing quite happily with their littermates and mum.  Perhaps I am too fussy with my puppies and am concerned about their welfare!!!!!. 

Molly if you are that worried you could always hand the visitor some alcohol get before they handled your pups, but IMO pups should be handled by as many different people and children as possible before they go to their new home. (Sorry about the people & children I don't really see them as a different species, I don't think ;) )
What about the dam, are they allowed to touch her, I would want to.

I invite children in to play with and handle my puppies. I invite the neighbours in likewise. I want them handled by as many people as possible before they leave me. I make sure they wipe their feet first, because my pups are in the house. I've never had any health problems arising from this.

You must have more faith than I do in other people.  Do you not worry that they might drop your puppies?  Step on your puppies? etc.  My way works for me and I have never had any complaints and I have been breeding for many years now.  In fact many owners are now on their 3rd or 4th puppy from me.  The liquid gel that you suggested Jackie would be fine but what about anything that could be lingering on clothes.  Have read on here before that people always change their clothes and shoes when they return home from a show or elsewhere for fear of bringing something in when there is a litter on the premises.  I see this as being no different to letting people that I dont know not handling my puppies.  Afterall they might have been to visit a puppy farmer before they came to see me!!

Of course I am concerned, but the benefit to the pups' mental health of being handled by many people outweighs (in my mind) any slight risk of harm. Of course, you let the strangers meet the mum, don't you? Because they need to be able to judge her temperament too. And once she's been handled, then the pups might as well be too, because she's going to transmit any germs to them anyway. But the immunity they get from her will defend them - that's what it's for!

Just out of interest, how do your buyers see how the pups react to strangers? This is, of course, a significant indicator as to which is the best pup for a particular person.

I feel it is essential that my puppies meet as many people as possible and experience many things before they leave my home.  I take my puppies out and introduce them to people and places long before they go.  I have visitors in to see the puppies. 

How do you expect your puppies to build up immunity when they don't have any contact with the outside world?  You are extremely lucky they don't fall prey to the first germ they ever meet when they leave you.

Like others have said, I wouldn't buy a puppy I hadn't touched.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Also my litters have been out to have their hearing tests done, where they have been handled by many people. They are carried into the village to be stroked by people and see traffic. The tattooist comes and IDs them. Etc, etc. Never a problem.

Molly1

I find it difficult to believe that you are being serious.

If you don't trust the new owner to even touch your pup until they are going to their new home, either because of carelessness or disease, why do they suddenly become a suitable owner for the pup when they pick it up to take it home?

Disease is a risk, but it's a very small risk. Particularly at the time when most people would be paying their first visit, up to and around the 5 week old period. During this phase the puppies immunity through the mother would be at it's greatest. In all of the litters I have ever seen I have never seen a puppy lost because of infection brought in. Obviously a person visiting should take some precautions in that they should wear clean cloths and wash their hands before going but I would have thought most dog people would realise that. Non dog people may not realise but then of course, without contact with other dogs that person would be of no risk anyway.

John

It would seem as if we are in danger of doing to our animals that which we have done to our own species. With our care and cleanliness, our biological wipes and disinfections we now have a generation that is open to any disease or infection that they happen upon. Remember a time when the children would sit on the curb, bare foot and eating jam butties whilst playing marbles in the gutter - don't remember an outbreak of sickness or allergies then. Don't think we should be careless with our health or that of our animals but they have to meet some germs in order to built up a resistance. Of course, if the dam is not immunised or there is an outbreak of something in the area then that is a different matter but I think this sort of care is doing the pups no favour, either with their health or their social skills.

Additionally I wouldn't buy a puppy that wasn't accustomed to being handled by different people.

My pups are handled by myself, visiting friends, the girls who work for me, my nephews (16 & 8) and staff members 11 year old daughter, from about 3 weeks old.  Prospective puppy buyer are allowed to visit from 4 weeks.  Everyone gets sprayed with parvocide (esp. soles of shows) and wipe hands on kitchen roll dampend with it.  This is the best compromise I have been able to make between well rounded, socialised pups and keeping infection at bay.  Whilst all our pups are bred with the show ring in mind, we do realise that the vast majority will find their place in life as a pet (much loved we hope), but whether show or pet, socialisation/handling/experience of noises both household and esternal are all vital in a pups early days, especially with the pups we run on longer.  However I do know breeders, particular with tiny toy breeds, who will not allow any visitors to handle the pups. 
bye
Gwen

Oh dear. Molly.  You worry that people might step on and drop your puppies and dont let people touch and handle them. etc.. etc...

I for one would walk away if i was treated with such a complete lack of respect when coming to view a puppy.

The way you are bringing them up is against all sound advice given on this board, well socialised, accustomed to as many different sounds etc as possible. 

I also note they are in a kennel in the garden.

Not looking good...

Maybe some of you wouldn't buy a puppy from me but lets put it this way maybe i wouldn't sell you a puppy- i have often refused to sell people a puppy on the grounds that the puppy just wouldn't suit their lifestyle.

I breed Jack Russells(small type & small litters) & alot of my puppies are exported to show/working homes worldwide & after having our line for 54 years we have yet still had no complaints. We breed when we need a new dog to bring on for working thus why i am keeping 4 youngsters back, you must remember with working dogs that even if it is bred from 2 workers dosen't guarentee you the puppies will have the guts to work! If i just bred one bitch or 2 & kept a pup back whos to say it will or won't work or have the stamina to do so?
I have a rough idea when they are puppies as to which show signs of working ability but its all down to how the dog performs on real quarry. If i have 3-4 to choose from then i am in with a better chance of getting a good sensible worker who will carry on our line, the other puppies would be sold on to people who i have waiting for puppies or placed on co-ownership agreements.
Breeding licence for all you that must know..............we have had since 1990. All our dogs live in the home as we have room to do this..................& there is 3 of us looking after the puppies so they all get lots of love & attention & are certainly more socialized with people,dogs & domestic appliances.

I think too many of you on Champdogs think you are the elite & have the right to dictate to people what they can/can't do & critisise anyone because they breed more than 1 litter per year....................i would think the reason you only breed 1 litter a year is because thats all the dogs you can keep or cope with or that is the only dog you have worthy of breeding...................some of us can't help having more than 1-2 dogs that are worthy of passing on their genes.
P.S All our JRT's are eye tested by a KC/BVA vet even though its not called for in the breed.
No expense should be spared when breeding for quality.

My pups are born in the house and live there until they go to their new homes.  When visitors and family come,
I love them to play with the pups and socialise them.  I watch them most carefully to ensure that they handle
the pups gently.   I only ask that they wash hands and take shoes off.

For god's sake, having a litter doesn't mean that I can never go out of the house and meet people for fear
of bringing germs back.  Common sense please - these are puppies, not immunity challenged sick babies
living in a sterile bubble.  I would think a pup has more immunity from the mother's milk than a bottle-fed
baby, yet a new baby is passed around to all and sundry. The only exception is after going to a dog show
or vet's etc.  Then I leave a complete change of clothes by the front door and change when I get back
before touching the pups.

When people come to choose one (from about 4 weeks old), I encourage them to come back on a weekly
basis if they want, and they often video their pup's progress.  That way the pup is already part of their family.
They go to their new homes, relaxed and asleep on the owner's lap because they have spent the previous few
weeks being gently handled and cuddled.

Do you mean that you are breeding Jack Russells to 'work' at driving foxes from their earths once they have been hunted and have gone to ground? I thought that was not allowed to happen anymore., or is it to flush rabbits out ?.

Also a bit puzzled as to how you can be sending small Jack Russells to show homes when they are not recognised and therefore not able to be shown.

Also what criteria are you using to decide that you have quality breeding stock ? without a breed standard then it must surely be just your opinion that you have dogs worthy of passing on their genes.

Yvonne

Far from an expert on the subject, and I am sure Anginelly will be along to answer for herself, but just because they are not a KC recognised breed does not mean that there are not breeders of many, many years standing, who know just what they are looking for in a JRT!  Go to any terrier show (bye which I mean country type terrier/lurcher show, not KC) and you will seem them exhibited, with lines going back years and years, and the breed afficiandos able to recite pedigree details as long as your arm.  This is an old breedwith a lot of history, and a whole lot of people much prefer the short legged type to the "Parson" type now seen in the show ring.

I know one local breeder who has been approached to send pups out to the USA, where they are much in demand.  these particular pups are in fact going to a hunt kennel.
bye
Gwen

If they are not KC or ISDS reg they cannot be eye tested throught the BVA/ISDS?KC scheme tho'

Yes they can Moonmaiden. We eye test quite a few unregistered dogs. The only thing is, it is not recorded anywhere. Hip scoring is not possible with an unregistered dog.

Regards, John

Thats what I meant they cannot actually go through the scheme & get a BVA/ISDS/KC certificate which is what is suggested by saying they have been tested under the scheme Yes they have been tested but not under the scheme If its not recorded there is no real proof that the actual dog has been tested through the scheme, at crufts they were asking for chip or Tattoo numbers which obviously ties the dog to the test, otherwise you could take the same dog time & time again