Hi
One of my friends has an 14 month border collie bitch (complete), she has in the last 3 months or so started to attack other dogs.
It has now got to the stage that if she even sees another dog in the distance she starts to growl and whine, any dog coming to within a few yards and she turns into the most terifyingly ferocious dog, she just doesn't seem to see her owner or hear any commands in her rage.
She attends the local pet obedience class and is one of the best working dogs there, but again any dog coming close risks being attacked.
One trainer tried using discs to shock/frighten her out of it, food has also been tried, we have also worked her through and around the other dogs.  She has always been on a normal collar and lead but is now walked on a halti to try and keep control, she has twice bitten her tounge with the power in her lunge at other dogs.  Any other suggestions would be welcomed.

Regards
Joan

Have her checked out at the vet to rule out medical causes first.

Hi
Thanks for the quick response, she has been seen by a vet who ruled out any medical problems but recommended that the socialisation be kept up.  She is booked in to be speyed mid July.
Dogs at the training class she used to play with now back off because of her aggression.

Joan

If you are happy that your vet has ruled out one of the major causes of aggression in dogs (hypothyroidism) which can only be done by running a complete blood panel then I would ask to be referred to a pet behaviourist.

Hi

Have sent a p/m to you.

Joan

I was reading one of the dog mags recently about a bearded collie who started to be aggressive. The vet did a test for thyroid problems, and nothing showed up.
The desperate owner eventually went on to Canine Immune Mediated Disease Awareness group on the internet and was told that the test her vet had done was not very useful and to ask for a complete thyroid profile. It's important the vet checks not just T4 but also T3AA, T4AA and TgAA to rule out autoimmune thyroiditis. To cut a longer story short, the dog's thyroid was found to be destroying itself and once on medication the dog improved and the aggression etc went :)

Not saying for one moment your dog must have this, but your situation reminded me and it's not a bad idea to spread this sort of information.

Lindsay
X

In my experience collies can have a problem with other dogs in a class situation.  Because they love to work for their owners in preference to playing with other dogs they can get a bit frustrated if other dogs are too much in their face.  Maybe she wanted to put some distance between herself and other dogs and if she was told off and discs were used then I would expect her behaviour to worsen.  Working her through and around other dogs if she is uncomfortable with the situation isn't necessarily going to help either.  She should seek help on a one to one basis with someoe who has experience with dogs with dog to dog aggression problems.

Thanks to everyone for your help I will pass on your suggestions.

Joan

Out of interest... does the coliie react like this whoever handles her?
I recall helping a lady with a dog that was a bit dog agressive. (not as extreme as this one though!) However if I took over his lead and walked him near other dogs he took no interest in them at all. This was not a result of me doing anything at all, purely a change of handler. Unfortunately, I never found out how this ended up as she was asked not to bring him to the classes for being too disruptive. (Decision nothing to do with me!) A shame because he worked beautifully when he wasnt trying to kill the other dogs!

In the classes the dog is not aggressive if being worked, only when relaxed at the side when others are working.  We tried removing the dog from the class when she was not working, but when she returned to the class she was even worse than before and would take 5-10 mins to calm down again, she will work with anyone who gives her commands be it her owner, trainer or other class member.
Someone has suggested a behaviourist. How do you know if you're in touch with a good one?
And will having the bitch spayed make her more aggressive?

Regards
Joan

I wouldn't put her in the class situation if she cannot cope with it.  As I said before a lot of collies are waaay too clever for classes and much prefer to work for their owners and not have to put up with boisterous labs, yappy terriers and the like.  I adore labs and terriers really but I am a Collie person first and foremost.  ;)  It is very difficult to know if you're in touch with a good behaviourist.  Qualifications and years of experience should be a good indication but aren't always unfortunately.  Personal recommendation is always a good way to find anything.  My recommendation would be to find someone who is sympathetic to the dog and doesn't use punishment or aversion techniques because although these methods appear to work on the surface they actually only suppress the behaviour.

Hi
The dog also reacts the same way in the street, so I would assume it is not a just a class thing.  We will try and find a behaviourist as local as possible.  As all her training is in a class situation, taking her out of it will put an end to her training as her owner is not the best at working on her own.

Most of the people I know who are training collies and other breeds for obedience train in a class at least once or twice a week and the rest of the time either with one or two friends or on there own.  
I've always worked my own dog at least once a week at a class for the instruction and the "homework" .  I thought everyone went to class?  ;~)   (can't do faces)

Joan

This sounds all very familiar to me.  I've had Copper at training, behaviourists, the lot.  He's the perfect dog.  Responds (although I did have him muzzled at the training class), does the commands, got a special mention for effort. 

The minute I get him home and try and walk him and continue the commands while walking the streets, its a no goer.  He just won't do it.  Barks at dogs, pulls, misbehaves, the lot. 

I no longer know what to do with him except have my own routine of walking him at quiet times, avoiding dogs on sight and continuing to train and socialise him at home.  I know that part of the problem is my handling of him which I'm working on but I've just had to accept the way he is and do my best.

That's all good and well with a small border terrier but a border collie is a big dog.  Do try a behaviourist but be prepared for the most intense training work which you have to do.  It is definitely NOT a quick fix.  I'm also going to try "calms for dogs" which is a kind of alternative de stresser for dogs.  Supposed to be good for aggression, but we'll see.

Good luck with the dog anyway, you can only do the best you can.

CG.

Sometimes dogs learn behaviours that we don't mean to teach them.  There are all sorts of reasons why she is reacting as she does whether it is in the street or in class but this is one thing that she doesn't need to practice.  I have lots of collies that train in my classes but I have a lot more that work one to one because they cannot cope with an indoor class.  I liken the Collie to the gifted child that gets into trouble at school because they are bored or not fulfilled.

your vet will refer you to a reputable behaviourist; these will not come via a franchise but me accredited members of a professional organisation such as the APBC (see details on the net) who have both experience of many many dogs and academic qualifications.

That sounds just like meg, her problems started at a similar age. I doubt spaying will make much difference to her problem as it is probably behavioural. I must confess meg is one of sally's one to one dogs and she works really well in this situation. I still take meg to classes as i have done ever since i got her, but she wears her halti and i keep a good distance. Admittedly though meg isn't as bad as she doesn't bark and growl unless they get too close.

I too own a border collie who is about 17 months old.  We have had this problem and have spoken to a friend who happens to be a behaviourist (duly qualified and with about 22 years experience with dogs) .  Your instinct is to immediately put the dog on the lead or pull it off by the collar if it gets aggresive.  This is what we did the first time he snarled and it turned out we think he then blamed every dog for us telling him no and duly took it out on them.  Every time we now see a dog it is party time for him, he gets his tennis ball and loads of treats.  We have been doing this for about two weeks and have now got a remarkable improvement.  We went to a village show on Sunday and we were on a stall and continued with the same treatment.  He never growled once and that is real improvement.  It is hard work and patience.  I had stopped training classes with him because he was disruptive but will probably be starting again next week to see how he gets on. 

I am not saying that this will work but I was willing to try anything at the time.  The very best of luck to your friend.

Mabay she just whants to be off the lead and play you shuold try that and if it dose'nt work I relly don'it no.
from Jayme-Annef.