This question is to the breeders on the forum. What would be your reaction to someone who said to you that `Puppy Sales Contracts ` are not worth the paper they are written on.I don`t suppose they would stand up in law but isn`t it better to do something to try to impress upon your puppy buyers that you really care about what happens to dogs you have bred for the rest of their lives and don`t want them to end up in a rescue kennels.This was said to me by someone who has never bred a litter.I`ve never had anyone buying a puppy refuse to sign one but this has made me think, are we wasting our time? Its the first time I`ve asked any question on here I usually just read the advice and comments. Hope you can help
Ester 

You're right Ester, if someone is determined to be awkward there is little that can be done. Luckily the vast majority of people seem to respect the contracts, and appreciate the backup. If someone refused to sign one, then I wouldn't sell them the puppy in the first place. There is no guarantee that the contracts will be honoured, but it's the best we can do. But it is always a worry.

If it was a potential new owner I would tell them to go elsewhere, I choose who has my pups and they are 'invited' into my home but by the time they get to that stage they have been picked from a list of people and if I have chosen correctly this situation would hopefully not arise. You certainly get a feel for people on the telephone but I never consider a pup booked until I have met the people personally and I have turned people away at this stage.
We can only do our best

Ester,
Every puppy that leaves my family, leaves with a contract, but more than that they are all sold on a non breeding aggreement or a lifted aggreement when certain health tests have been completed and at an age that I would consider old enough tp whelp a litter ie 2 yr in my breed) Also a non export is put on as well. I know if you have in writing of the endorsements (uk) they cannot be overturned by the Kennel Club. They can be removed if the breeder does not have them in writing at the time the puppy leaves. Most new puppy owners are more than happy with my terms and conditions and I have never had any problems. However I have had many enquiries run a mile when I mention my contracts, but to me there is nothing more pleasing! My contracts I hope only entice responsible owners and hopefully deterring "puppy farmers".
I think at the end of the day A contract is better than NO contract, a sign of a responsible breeder :-) How well they will stand in court... most who sign them have no ill behind, those who will not I question and tell them to carry on.

Sue

Puppy contracts are not legal documents and strictly speaking are not worth the paper they are written on . However I use them as a 'statement of intent' so that my puppy buyers know that I should be the first person to contact if they cannot keep the pup etc. I also include a disclaimer stating that although both parents have all the neccesary health tests I cannot guarantee that the pup will not develop a problem later on - again I really don't think this would stand up in court if buyers later decided to sue. Only breeding/export endorsements are worth doing because pups cannot be registered unless you have agreed to lift the endorsement ( of course the new owners can still breed and just not apply for registration - how would we know ?).

Personally I find the best way is to try to keep in touch with my new puppy owners ( much easier now with e-mail) and constantly reinforce the message that I am interested in the pups welfare etc and at the end of the phone should a problem arise.

Yvonne

If a puppy contract is drawn up with regard to the law (and preferably by a solicitor), then duly signed and witnessed, it is as binding as any other contract, bearing in mind that any contract is open to being challenged and over turned by a court, anyway!  However, most of us do our own contracts, and the terms and restrictions would not be deemed acceptable by a court.  A lot of the clauses we tend to put in might be found to be unduly restrictive, bearing in mind we actually sold the pup!  There are not a lot of things in this world you can sell but still expect to retain some control over.  However, as we are selling living, breathing little creatures, not cars of washing machines, we try to take extra pre-cautionary measures, which the law makes no allowances for.

I completely agree with the posters above who said if anyone objected to the contract, they simply would not get a pup, and I just hope my contracts at least give them the outline for which I want my pups to live by.

Another point brought up by one of the posters - sorry cant remember who, whilst KC endorsements should offer protection, providing them are acknowledged in writing, there are cases when a puppy is sold  subsequently to a 3rd party that such endorsements can be lifted, if the 3rd party says they didnt get this info. in wiriting.  This is why we usually sell our pet pup without handing over the KC reg.

bye
Gwen

Sadly Gwen holding the k.c papers would appear to be the only way to prevent this loop hole. I wonder how we would get on writing across the k.c reg 'not to be transferred'
I think it is about time the kc did something for the breeder instead, especially with the introduction of 'The Accredited Breeder Scheme'

As far as I can gather, as this is not a much published fact, the problem they have is not their own regulations, but if they can legally withohold a "third party" transfer, under such circumstances.   As a commercial organisation as well as a private club they have to abide by the normal laws and rules of trading.   Thankfully, this a rearely used loophole, but one we always have to be aware of.

bye
Gwen

It should also be pointed out that the KC HAS lifted endorsements placed by the breeder; especially where the breeder has reneged on their part of the deal; eg informed the buyer that the restrictions will be lifted on the production of relevent health check certificates; it is, after all, not only puppy buyers that can be a problem......................

Sadly even if you keep the kc registration papers, copies can be gained from the kc and a transfer made with forged signatures - i know because this has happened to me!  Even worse this was done to breed from the girl and register pups, while the kc acknowledged that the bitch was not signed over by me and the papers forged they still allowed the registration of the pups to remain - this even though the bitch was over 9 years at the time of whelping!

With regard to contracts any contract is lawful - even verbal contracts have been argued in Court, in theory if you verbally agree to sell a puppy to someone and then withdraw from the sale you could be sued and forced to hand over the puppy - particularly if there were witnesses.  As long as the contract is clear and fair then it will hold up in court though it might be an idea to have a solicitor to approve your contracts for clarity and fairness.  The contract must be signed by both the buyer and the seller and dated by both parties - also i always place a clause stating that the agreement is legally binding between the said vendor and purchaser and legal ownership of the puppy cannot be transfered.  This means that if the dog is then registered in joint names and only one of the party signs, the legal owner is only the party who signed the contract.  A registered owner is not necessarily the legal owner (as used in car registrations)

For those that are wondering i did not have a contract on my poor girl above as it was my ex partner who forged my name - long story but essentally the KC did not want to know!
Sharon

I was actually sold my first bitch the breeder had endorsed on the pedigree that she was not to be bred from.  She did not inform us of this and I had actually got a litter of pups when the letter came from the kc telling me this.  Ok yes it was on the registration papers but if you are not looking for it you wouldnt see it.  Even on the pedigree she handed us it said any special conditions and there were none.  When I contacted the kc they told me to contact the breeder she refused to give me her phone no due to data protection.  To cut a long story short she was a member of the breed club the same as me so we got her number that way.  She did remove it but has since moved with no forwarding address and is no longer a member of our breed club.  My bitch was over two and I complied in every way with the clubs code of ethics.  In this instance would the KC have been wrong to remove the endorsement of course not because I wasnt informed this had been done.  She actually took 4 months to register the litter and I had to keep persistantly phoning.  With hindsight I was very niave.  Now when I sell my pups I endorse the pedigree and actually get them to also sign a contract saying I will remove the restriction once the bitch or dog reaches two providing it is still with the same owner or has been rehomed to a suitable person.  I also say that they have to contact me if the dog needs to be re homed.  I must say I have kept in contact with all bar one of my 25 offspring.

I hope I would never have to try out as to whether the contract would be lawful but as the forms are supplied by my breed club I would like to think they had looked into this.

Do those of you who do contracts keep a copy for yourself as well as one for your puppy buyer, both signed?

Hi Christine,

My contract is 3 pages ( not 3 full pages of text but other stuff also). The 3 pages are numbered and are all signed by both myself and buyer. Tthere is 2 copies one for each of us. I even have on the contract that a copy have been given to the buyer also.

Yes you could keep your own only but more sensible to have the 2 I think.

yes, 2 copies, both signed and dated, one to the puppy buyers  one for our file.
bye
Gwen

"""if you verbally agree to sell a puppy to someone and then withdraw from the sale you could be sued and forced to hand over the puppy - particularly if there were witnesses.""""

Sharon not trying to be picky but something isn't sold until it is sold.   You may have 100 genuine reasons for the sale not to go through.