Hi I own a white german Shepherd his name is Murphy and he is 3 years old.  Unfortunetely i have no kc papers for him.  He is a beautiful long haired boy and We would very much like to breed him but are unsure if anyone would enter into this without kc papers.  My question is this, Is it possible to have Murphy looked at by an expert and gain papers?  Please , please help me if anyone can.

Sorry, but no-one can just look at Murphy and then issue him with papers :(

I'm sure he is an absolutely wonderful dog, but no, no-one with a good bitch would want to use him.   Enjoy and love him for what he is - your lovely Murphy!

Margot

Hi Guest

If you do a search on the web you'll find a network of breeders who select for white long coats.
While this colour is not accepted in the standard and usually i would discourage anyone from breeding a pet...  i do feel show GSD's are a very poor relation to the lovely Alsations i saw as a child.  It is only people breeding 'pets' in this breed who will keep the breed alive and able to work as police dogs etc.

Sadly this is one breed which has been destroyed by fashion in the show ring - appologies to all you GSD exhibitors but this is just the way i feel.  I could cry when i look at some of the stock in the rings...   Very sad...

Sharon

OOhh Sharon I should run and hide now :)  :)
Guest is it possible that you rescued your boy?? if so he may well be k.c registered, there are a number of white fans on this forum and I'm one of them, if you know who bred him we may be able to help you trace his paperwork.

This would be fine if the dog was KC r4egistered and had a history of testing for Hip Dysplasia and Hamophilia A.  Without a verifiable pedigree how would the guest know whether her lovely boy is not carrying serious health or temperament flaws which may not be visible in him but could be passed on to his offspring.  He might even end up being mated to his own sisters, as how would anyone know.

There are white and long coat lovers who have KC registered stock thatis health tested, and it is from this pool that the breeding stock should come.

If you care to look there are plenty of good standard coated GSDs being bred that are not exagerated as are some of both the Germanic and so called English type.  In fact these midle of the road dogs have been doing extremely well at Championship shows against all breeds, where as it had got to the stage that a GSD rarely took top honours at all breed shows.  GSD showing has almost become a totally seperate passtime to showing other dogs, with shows where the Germanic is king and others where the English type will win, and alsomost never the twin meet.

I'm sorry, but only his breeder can apply to the Kennel Club to register him, and then only if both his parents were Kennel Club registered. Have you tried contacting them and asking them?

If this isn't possible, then your best bet is to simply enjoy him as your delightful pet.

You could put him on the activities register but this does not mean any puppies he produces will be accepted for KC registration but it does mean you can get him HD scored via the BVA/KC scheme

You would not be able to advertise him as KC pedigree only Activities registered

Sharon Very odd that the police only go to pet breeders for their dogs as the local force have just purchased three puppies from a local show kennels !!!!! They have previously bith other dogs from "show"kennels as well & have used"show"dogs at stud as they have all the health tests done too Maybe you know something they don't. They rarely accept gift dogs due to the lack of health screening & unknown ancestry They sight the waste of public funds on trining or accepting unsatisfactory dogs

Hi Moonmaiden

Really don't want to get into an argument over this one and perhaps your information is more accurate than mine - but the police do have there own breeding programs for GSD's, that is a fact.  They also are now looking to other breeds such as Akitas, Bouviers, Rottie etc because a good GSD is hard to find.
I often see police dogs and have never seen one which resembles anything seen at our general champ shows.  The only shows where i see a good quality nice sized GSD is at Companion Shows.  As for German and English types - sadly i do feel the english type is gradually following the lead of the german dogs, the toplines here are now begining to arc - how anyone can interpret the standard 'back between withers and croup, straight, strongly developed and not too long...flowing topline, slightly sloping from front to back' as back arcing from a point just behind the wither to the tail set, centre point of radius of arc at a point level with the front foot - is just incredible.  ONLY the croup should be curved slightly!!!
They are also far too small!

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion - i'm not one to critisise others just saying what i believe is correct - you don't have to agree...

Sharon

SOME police forces have their own breeding programmes for their dogs such as the Met under Steve Dean who use and purchase GSDs imported/bred here from strong working bred lines that compete in Schutzhund etc.  Other police forces rely on "gift" dogs and they have more than a 50% failure rate! 

It is not that good GSDs are hard to find, but the police won't pay out money for them!

The second breed of choice is now the Belgian Shepherd Dog (Malinois variety) which again comes from specialist imported lines that have been bred for generations to work and compete in the continental sports of Mondioring, Ring Sport as well as Schutzhund;

When choosing a dog to work one specifically selects on the basis of that criteria, plus health; 

There will always be the odd Rottie etc but again, very few are bred specifically for working purposes.

What you seem to be saying in the good"ole"days the GSDs(sorry Alsations(sic) to you)were all lovely healthy animals  with good temperaments & characters Well Sorry my memory must be playing me tricks as I remember the dogs of the 50's & 60's as having decidedly dodgy temps you only have to read Nem Elliots books(her versions not the updated ones)Nem was brutally honest about the majority of the dogs of the time.  I was very lucky as I never had an Alsation(sic)only GSDs from pure German lines(via Brittas breeding for my first three, later from my own imports)

Now Police dogs the gift dogs on a whole are no longer viable as they must have a totally reliable temperament & no leaway is allowed re biting nowadays something in the 50's & 60's & 70's & 80's they could get away with, but no longer, so they now look for dogs from proven backgrounds(usually quite close up to import lines)

& size how big do you want them to be 28-30 inches at the withers ? Sorry that makes them too big & from a working point of view the bigger the dog the less work they can do hence the medium size of 24-26 inches for males(In germany the size is strictly montored) Also more stress is put on the joints of the oversized animals

None of this is going to help this poster use their "white"GSD at stud. Hence my advice to get it registered then health checked-including Haemophillia/HD of course & then hope someone will want to use the dog

Edited to add the word sic means-Intentionally so written (used after a printed word or phrase)

Moonmaiden

This is clearly your breed and quite rightly you are going to support those dogs bred today - you are, as is everyone entitled to your opinion, and i respect that - however others are entitled to theres too.

I do not believe i raised the issue of temperament - and the gene for good or bad temperament is not linked to the conformation gene(s) so is irrellevant to this issue.

As for the police regecting 50% of dogs on the grounds of temperament, i believe that the GDAB also regect over 70% of puppies on the grounds of temperament - that is not to say that the 'rejects' are bad tempered.

Finally size - height is only one element of size and i don't believe i mentioned it.  Most of the GSDs i see at shows look like they'd be blown over with a big gust of wind.  It is indeed a pitty that the standard does not have a weight limit as well as height.

As i said it is your breed and you are entitled to protect it, but others do not have to agree.

As for the original post - no this does not help at all - Here it ends.
We'll agree to disagree...
Sharon