All Norwegian Elkhound exhibitors will be interested to know that our scheduled judge Mr Sigurd Wilberg has injured his Achilles tendon, and will not be able to
judge us on Sunday 4th July.

The replacement judge is Mrs L Manning (nee Smart) who last judged the breed
at the LKA in Dec 2001.  This will be her third time awarding CCs.

OH! Bums

That was my reaction.  She gave my Jozi the CC last time, so I shouldn't really take her.  Do you know if I can ask for my entry fee back when this happens?

She gave Elli Best Puppy at the Club show but I would not have entered under her from choice, not sure about money, think you can withdraw and still enter a stakes class but I doubt if they will refund

Just realised I have entered Champion stakes, so will withdraw from breed and just go in that.  The stakes judge gave he4r a third in Junior stakes at Bath, gaveher a CC and also had her in last four for BIS at a Christmas Open show, so worth a go.

Will go, feet willing ;). but not that pleased about it have to say, would have much prefered a breed judge.

Seems a bit hard that you can't have refund when it's a change of judge esp with entries the price they are. You have my sympathy
                Anne

Thanks Anne, 2 or 3 hounds entered at £20 is not funny when the judge is changed either to one you should not enter under or one you would not enter under.

Can you withdraw from breed classes and compete in stakes?
I was under the impression that you had to compete in the breed class too.
Otherwise if you just withdraw from breed class and compete in stakes you can get disqualified from any placing that you win
in the stakes class?
This is what happened one year to a pup that didn't get exhibited in it's breed class due to being lame
and then went into the puppy stakes after lameness wore off, won it and then was disqualified.

I know when you have a veteran that you don't have to go in the breed classes.
But is this the same for champions too?

Thanks :)

Yes Champions don't have to go in breed classes either.

You can certainly withdraw if the replacement judge is your dogs breeder or has handled the dog in the last 12 months or if the judge is a relative so I would have thought you could if the replacement judge has already given you exhibit a CC without being penalised. Will look it up.

Have looked it up and I am still not sure, it is F(1)20b with reference to F(1)8d seems the whole thing revolves around how much notice is given of the change of judge. But in the case of a Pup or Champion there it may be that there are different regulations. To cap it all any action taken against someone who withdraws an exhibit relies on the discretion of the General Committee, so to be sure you would need to know the thoughts of the General Committee, as clear as most KC rules when you really look into them

I be4leive there is a specific rule about withdrawing under a replacement judge, but not sure if that means you have to withdraw from all competition.  I really want to show in the stakes, and if there is any doubt over being able to do so after withdrawing from breed, then I might just ahve to go in breed classes, but obviously would prefer not to, as it isn't really done, and should by any chance she win under her again I am sure the other bitch exhibitors woudl feel I ahd robbed the RCC winner.  Though judges don't often give another CC to same exhibit.

Don't think anyone would complain B, but it does seem a bit pointles unless you are one of these people who collect CC for the number won not caring if it is a different judge or not.
Why no send an email to the KC and ask, they normaly take about 3 days to reply, guess it takes that long for them to sort the rules out too. :)

Have just emailed the KC.  No I don't think it right to go for another CC under same judge, even if you fancied your chances in the group if you won all the way. 

It is one reason I like showing my bitch at the Non CC champ shows, as I am not taking anything away from another exhibit if I should be lucky enough to win.

Didn't want to cause any trouble, but thanks for the learning curve :)
I regurlarly exhibited my veteran (now sadly departed nearly 3 yrs) but haven't
had the pleasure of having a champion yet! :)
I know that it isn't the 'done' thing to go under a judge with the same dog if
they've given them a CC before.
But it seems a shame if the rules say you have to exhibit under the breed judge
to be able to go into your Ch stakes class.
Here's hoping for a positive outcome for Brainless :)

It's not a rule, just a curtesy. Some people seem to want to collect a large number of CC and after they have made the dog up there is nothing else to go for except the year record or breed record, so if they have nothing else to show I suppose you can't blame them.

You can only get your money back if the change of judge is the breeder or owned the dogs in the past 12 months (Ie people you CANNOT enter under the rules etc...think thats it...but I'm not 100% sure, so don't just take my word untill someone tells me I'm compleatly wrong.....

Just to clear a point up here .....,You can JUST enter in Champion or Veteran Stakes.  You can enter in both the Breed & Stakes, however, if you are entered in the Breed & Stakes you MUST show in the Breed ;-)  There was a Sib disqualified from a Stakes overall win, as they had not shown in the breed whilst entered :-)

Was the Sib a puppy or a champion and was there a change of judge at the last moment?

I knew I had not made it clear to whom I was answering :D  There was no change of Judge in this case and I think it was the Veteran stakes....they tried to claim they had arrived too late for the breed due to an incident, but they had been seen around the ring in good time.

I was just claryfying to one or two people that you don't have to enter the breed. 

If I were Brainless I would contact both the KC & the Windsor Secretary.  At the KC make sure you get a name ;-) for any come back.  Shows do not have to refund money even for a Judge change, some do out of kindness, but many don't.

I think I will just have to take the easy option, and show her in the breed class also, after all the chances of the judge putting her up a second time are slim, especially as she has lost most of her coat :D

Think that may be best, terrible to win the AV Champ stakes and then loose it because you did not do the breed class. Would like to know the answer though and may well follow it up.

Wishing you the best of luck in both classes!
:)

Was supposed to have been there and showing on working day, but the hospital has scheduled
a long awaited appointment the same day, and the appointment takes priority (not often
that I miss a dog show).

Jackie
"would have much prefered a breed judge."

Your judge would not be best pleased with that remark :D
Lorraine & her Mum owned, showed & bred Elkhounds back in the 1970's, if not earlier.

Perhaps I put that badly, perhaps I should have said a breed specialist, if Lorraine had been the original judge I would not have entered, and I would have preferred a judge that is currently listed as a breed specialist, in the breed lists.  But £51 has already been spent and can't be reclaimed so I will be going and unless she reads this forum or you tell her she is not going to be upset because she is not going to know. Lets face it there will be those who would have said the same if the replacement had been me :) We all have our reasons for entering or not entering under a particular judge and the reasons are not personal to the judge or the family.

PS The original judge was not a breed specialist either, but I had not entered under him before, nor watched him judging so I entered, as much out of interest than anything else. Like a judge that is either from abroad or has not judged the breed in years, somehow adds to the excitement of the day.

Have to agree there jackie I hate having to enter under the same judges during the current showing life of an adult dog, diferent if they have judged them as pups, but sadly we seem to get the saem judges time and time again, and some judges on our list never get an airing.

Don't mind too much at an open show but on the Championship circuit we seem to get the same 30 or so judges over and over again, they seem to swap about every 18 months. You are right, the fact that a judge either likes or dislikes your dog does not come into it, there is no interest in watching a judge when you could almost do the placing for them.

I just hope that this time she writes a critique, never did get one last time she judged, but did the first time of awarding CC's. 

Well for those who weren't there her are the Elkhound main results:

Judge: Mrs M L Manning

Dog CC : 8533 Miss B C GRAY Barbelka Dziarski
Res Dog CC : 8560 Mr G & Mrs J WINSOR Barbelka Forest
Bitch CC : 8518 Mrs C ALLCHIN Ch Carolon She's a Cracker
Res Bitch CC : 8555 Mr B T & Mrs E V NICHOLS Barlestone Annette
Best Puppy : 8526 Mrs H J CAPLE Ravenstone Lord de Lovel of Morsefield
BEST OF BREED : 8533 Miss B C GRAY Barbelka Dziarski

I handled the Best of Breed as I usually do, and this was his first win in Open dog when CCs have been on offer (he has been Best Dog and Res Best dog without CCs), he has beaten most of the dogs in the class at one time or another, so his owner was very pleased with the first prize, the CC and Best Of Breed let her speechless.

A good day then brainless :)

Congratulations Karen