hi all..ive been trolling through the threads on here, and wondered if someone can answer a question i have?...my bullmastiff will be 8wks old when i bring him home, and i intend to crate train him. If started at 8 wks...how long do you think it would take until he could go all night without needing the loo??? i have read some ppl saying ''2 days''....and some ''2 weeks''!!!! considering he'll only be 8 wks old.....how long do u think it would take, cos i dont think i could go 2 -3 weeks getting up every few hrs..lol......think it would have to be the good 'ol newspaper on the floor if it is....lol

How exciting, a new pup! Make sure you enjoy him while he's small coz they grow up too fast! I personally don't agree with using paper but it suits some peoples lifestyles. A few weeks of getting up 2 or 3 times is a small price to pay for a dog who stays quiet all night, and who doesn't like getting up in the dead of the night and standing in the rain while your pup decides whether he really needed the toilet?! We crate trained both of ours and our youngest was going all night within about 5 weeks, so she was about 11 weeks. By all night I mean from half 11 to 6am, don't know others opinion of this but it was her doing, if she didn't want to go out then she didn't have to. She did howl all night though ONCE, she didn't need the loo, just wanted to play and had lost her voice the next day. Needless to say she never did it again and now we don't hear a peep out of her(unless she has the runs then its evey half hour!!)

Using a crate won't have any effect on how long it takes for his bladder to develop the control he'll need to hold his wee when he has to.  It will limit the area of damamge, but it would be really cruel, and possibly counter productive to confine him to the crate for longer periods than he can coep with - by confining him and forcing him to wee IN the crate, you're actually teaching him it's OK to go anywhere - and this is a LOT harder to brake once it's become a habit :( Like human babies, you'll find the first few weeks are hardest, and as they mature the time they can go between feeds or toilet breaks becomes longer.  The best thing to do is to keep his crate near your bed, and when you do have to get up keep the lighting down, conversations with him to a minimum and plenty of reward for appropriate behaviour ;)

Over the years I have tried paper training, crate training and no training at all and can say in all honesty I have not noticed any difference in the time it takes for the pup to get control. Think paper training can confuse the pup, crate makes it easier for you unless the dog dances in anything he does and then you have to wash the pup as well as the bedding and doing nothing wins hand down as far as remaining calm is concerned, as if you don't expect the pup to be clean you are not surprised if they are not but delighted if they are.

Not true to say I do nothing, the door to the yard is either open or I take the pup out every three-quarter of an hour or so.

Hi

We've trained both ways - paper and with new pup a crate.  I would honestly say that I will never go back to paper training as I can understand the potential confusion that it can cause in a dog's mind as to what is allowed and what isn't.  We picked Ebony up a few days after 8 week and she has been night crated since day 1 next to our bed.  The first three days she cried after about 4 hours and we got up, took her out, and then put her back to bed with very little interaction other than mega praise when she toileted outside.
Since then she has never cried to go out and sleeps through from about 11pm to about 6am without any problems.  At the weekends when she has been to puppy class on a Friday and then out to see people we can sometimes get 9 hours sleep out of her without needing to go to the loo as she is so tired.  Maybe we have been lucky and of course every dog is different but it gives you some ideas at least.

Jayne

I had the same experience as Jayne using a crate. Cava slept right through fairly quickly and was out of the crate at night from 4 months. I chose a night after we had been at a fun day so he was very tired.
                Anne

I got Fagan at 7 and a half weeks for the first few nights he woke up twice a night to go out then for the next week or so he only woke up at about 4am and it started getting later after that now I have to wake him up :D .  Now at 13 weeks he sleeps with his crate door open (and has done for a couple of weeks) and I can count on one hand the amount of accidents he has ever had in the house and I am also to blame for all of them for not putting him out when I should have noticed that he needed to go :rolleyes.  He started asking to go outside at about 9 weeks old.  He was only ever shut in his crate at night, during the day he had the kitchen and never weed, I never put newspaper down for him I think this encourages bad habits.  I always got up to him when he whined, put him out then straight back to bed.  I think if a pup needs to go and you dont get up then that is forcing him to go in his crate which if he does once will think it is ok to do again which makes crate training a pointless task.

Claire :)

Think I have been very lucky reading the replies on here!! we got Murphy - Gordon Setter - a few days off 8 weeks, and can honestly say he was dry over night after 3 nights, ie 11pm till 6am, then after another week was fine from 11pm till 8am, now he is nearly 9 months old and lasts till at least 9am, and even then he has to have five minutes to say Good Morning in true Setter fashion ( like he's not seen us for weeks!!! ) before he can be bothered to go out for a pee!!!! We have always had his crate in the utility room, didnt fancy lugging a 42" crate up stairs every night - we left a radio on low and he never cried. IMHO I would never paper train again, I did it once and have crate trained 2 dogs, the crate way is superb. Its not just the house training thing either, it prevents the boredom chewing that so often happens when dogs are left on their own - a hard habit to break once started!! My friends Lab has chewed the wall, the carpet, the rubbish bin etc etc - he is five months old, so have recommended she get him a crate - and soon!!! good luck with your boy!!

as you started of with a 42" crate...did u put some kind of divider to make it smaller. People on here are saying make sure the crates not to big so the pup doesnt soil it..I would like to get a crate that he is going to grow into to so as to avoid having to buy a small one then a large 1!!!!! did you make the crate smaller when he was a pup?

My two pups are 18 weeks now - the girl is almost completely housetrained and will go through the night untill around 6a.m. . My boy pup is still having 'accidents' fairly frequently and finds it harder to hold on. Both are crate trained .  I have a fairly relaxed attitude about house training - we have a dog flap and all my floors are tiled so any accidents are easily mopped up. I do know that they will get there in the end. Pups can vary enormously in their bladder control and I'm afraid that for many owners patience is the name of the game !.Lets hope you are one of the lucky ones .

Yvonne

Think you have the right attitude Yvonne, dogs are different and will gain control at different times. People new to puppy owning, will read of someone who has trained their puppy in a week and because their pup can't go all night without a pee feel they have failed. All pups will manage in the end, some sooner than others, all their owners need to do is decide if they want to get up in the night to let the pup out or if they would rather stay in bed and sort it out in the morning and as far as training the pup is concerned it makes not difference. If your pup can't control the bowel by 4 months and the bladder by 6 months then I would take it to the vet for a check up otherwise arrange things so accidences do not cause permanent damage. But you do need to show the pup where you want him to eliminate, so there is no getting away from taking the pup outside at regular and frequent intervals staying with him and praising when he 'goes' where you want it.

Nope!! left it undivided - but his bedding covers the whole base - one of those big quilted ones, and he has a few of his "safe" toys in there too to chew on and play with. Like I said - think I have been really lucky with Murphy, as others have said, dogs vary enormously, I have a friend who has a couple of Westies that are the same age, and they both still have accidents in the house regularly, but they weren't crate trained........................................... Think it is very much a "suck it and see" kind of exercise, what worked for me might not for you, but give it a go, and enjoy your puppy!!!

I have tried both with our newest addition who is now 7 months old.  When we first got him we did it the old fashioned paper way. Overnight we were getting no where so after about three weeks of trying we got a crate and we have never had an accident since - only when he has an upset tummy and then he wakes me up.  We dont use the crate anymore and in fact ditched it after about 6 weeks later but would definitely crate from the word go now.  If used correctly they can be the best and kindest way to toilet train.

We have used a 42" crate from day 1 at 8wks. My pup has never soiled her crate and lasts from midnight untill 6am at first but now sleeps untill 9.00am. During the day we had a few accidents which to be honest were our fault, not paying enough attention. She did take a week to get used to it. She cried every night most of the night. We ignored her racket as instructed by the breeder but were about to give up on the crate when suddenly on the eighth night not a peep. The crate was left open during the day and she could wander in and out at will. By week two it was her Den and would spend ages taking her toys one by one back into the crate as this was her space to put all her treasures in including those things that she was not supposed to have. If anything goes missing we know where to look. We have newspaper covering the entire floor and a vet-bed covering 3/4 of it. The vet-bed allows any moisture to go straight through and is absorbed by the newspaper, leaving the vet-bed dry. They grow so quickly that I would not go to the expence of a smaller one.