Hi,

My husband and I are considering buying a Labrador puppy, and I thought I would try and get some advice from this forum, before we make a very big decision!

I live in Hampshire and have looked on the KC website to find local breeders, and there seems to be a few near to where I live.  There are also several adverts in the Adtrader (formerly Freeads).  Are these 2 options a good way of finding a good breeder and therefore a good puppy?  What should I look for when and if I visit them?  What would be a good price for a good puppy?  I have seen pups advertised for £350, and £600.  I'm not bothered if I have a bitch or a dog (one more male won't make much difference - am surrounded by them!) and I do love chocolate labs, but have heard they have the most health problems - is this true?  I do very much like black labs!  Could anyone recommend a good breeder in Hampshire or near to Hampshire?

Also, I have heard about Hip and Eye scores, but am not that sure exactly what score I should be looking for.  A chocolate Lab near to where I live has had her hip replaced, so I'm aware that there can be serious problems.

Also, I have 2 boys aged 7 and 3 1/2, 2 cats, one aged 17 and one about 3 (he's a stray we took in last year) and 2 rabbits!  Would a Labrador be ok with the kids and cats?  (Rabbits are in their Hutch or run)

Do Labradors have a destructive nature?  I do work part-time so I will have to leave the dog during the day, for no more than 4 hours.  My friend has advised me to use a puppy cage for these times when the dog is young.

I've asked a lot of questions, and hopefully some of you experienced dog owners can advise me.  Please post here or email me directly.

You have made a good choice posting here.
A good place to start would be the labrador retriever club they have a website  www.thelabradorretrieverclub.co.uk and there are a few lab clubs in the south.their members must adhere to the clubs code of ethics that including health schemes.
They also have a puppy list and will point you in the right direction,buying a labrador puppy you will have to be careful and maybe have to wait for a puppy but better waiting than a disaster.
Health problems in Labs are eyes  and Hips John is our resident expert on eyes  in fact all things lab and im sure he will answer your questions.
Go to google and type in hereditary deseases in labradors. you may get a lot from that but also if you do approach lab club they will send you the info.
get yourself a good book on labradors and that will also tell you about hereditary problems.
Choc labs should be no different in health than blacks or yellows IF you go to a decent breeder.
best of luck and you can email me if you like  on               labrador.rescue@btinternet.com

forgot to say if you lab puppy is brought up with rabbits he will be fine our rabbit used to curl up in front of the fire with our labs wish id got a picture of him but it was pre digital camera days

Hi Julia.
The Labrador is the most wonderful of dogs! OK, maybe I am a bit bias but there it is! But this very fact does bring with is a down side and that is that so many people breed them solely for money. The papers such as Adtrader do seem to attract these puppy farmers because it is cheap mass advertising. I know there are sometimes nice puppies in there but it is risky. A better bet is to look at the list of breeders on here or to contact the breed club. Another source of info is to chat to people with Labradors in your area. If you like their dog it could be worth ringing the breeder, even if they have nothing they often know what's going on in the area. Owners of stud dogs which you like can often tell you who has used their dog recently.

As to health tests; Eyes is a pass or fail. Make sure the certificate is up to date, a dog should be tested each year because some problems can occur later in life. Hips should be tested. It is a once only test and can only be done after the dog is at least one year old. The lower the score the better but should certainly not be much higher than the breed average of 15 (the total of both hips added together. So a score on the certificate of  6/5 would be a total of 11)

Labradors are trustworthy BUT! They need to learn. A puppy growing up with a cat will try to play and part of the play would obviously be chase. This could well result in the cat doing the puppy more harm than the puppy would do to the cat! Yes, it can work but it would need supervising in the early days. Just as for that matter, children and rabbits should be supervised.

Do Labradors have a destructive nature? In a word, YES! A puppy eating the house is quite usual! Particularly if left during the day. Cages can work but the difference between a "Den" and a "Prison" is small. Four hours is a long time for a young puppy and if he cannot wait, in a cage he has no choice but to lay in his own wet or mess. Not nice! If you are going to use one then the puppy needs to be introduced to it in the right way so that it never becomes a prison.

A few things for you to think about.

A Labrador is a big strong dog

"      "         can moult for Britain (Twice a year)

"      "         can easily clear a 4ft fence for no better reason than "Because it's there"

"      "         is born with a desire to visit his friends in Australia and will start digging the tunnel just as soon as he can walk!

"      "         will eat anything he can get his mouth around, including the house and furniture within!

"      "         learns so quickly and if you don't train him he will train himself! (But he wont train the things YOU want!)

"      "         will not notice that you want to turn right if he has his mind on other things. In a case like that YOU WILL NOT TURN RIGHT!

Best wishes, John

My Chocolate Lab is now 13 years old and never had any health problems other than old age arthritis just now setting in some. She's been a wonderful dog. She was quite laid back and calm as a pup and was trustworthy with the kids. (at that time my kids were older) She did manage to chew some woodwork in our beautiful new house. She chewed every attachment to my husband's shop vacuum cleaner, a heel of some very expensive shoes. But that was when I wasn't watching her closely enough. Now I'll tell you what she chewed when I was watching her. (just kidding) No, some Labs are more exuberant than others. This girl has been easy and very quick and willing to learn. However, as John said, has always loved going around and visiting the neighbors, but luckily when she did this, she was older and not still destroying things. They all loved my Bonnie.

Another thing you can do is go to shows and talk to some Lab people. If a lot of people mention one breeder, you might be reasonably sure that that is a good one. But be sure and go online and see what your breed club and UK kennel club have to say about what to look for in a reputable breeder, what questions to ask, what health test proof to ask for etc. Good luck! Labs are wonderful! That is.....good ones. There are a lot of back yard breeders out there so beware. That can bring you heartache. They don't care about health or temperament in their breeding practices. Temperament is soooo important.

There are some red flags to watch out for in backyard breeders or puppy mills. They have both parents on site, (not necessarily bad, but it might mean something) they're cheap, they have more than one litter or more breeds than one or two that they're breeding, they have litters very often....more than once or twice a year. They don't show their dogs, have no titles. (watch for titles) They have puppies available that are ready to go or older. Usually good breeder's puppies are spoken for before they're born. It can take time to get a good pup. Maybe there are more Labs out there, but my most recent aquisition, a Doberman pup took over a year to get lined up after waiting lists upon waiting lists.

Another disease they can get but I think is fairly rare in Labs is Von Willebrands, a bleeding disorder. It's more prevelent in Dobes, but more severe if Labs have it. (Dobes have the milder form)  It can be tested for by a DNA test. So, I don't know how much you have to watch out for that one. I didn't know about it when I got my Lab. But I did when I got my Dobe.

Good luck!
Carrie

Just a few thoughts. A full answer would be worthy of a book!

Both Adtrader and the KC websiste will have some good breeders and some awful ones as there is no minimum requirement when advertising. Breed clubs can also provide a puppy list, these usually require that both parents be hip & eye tested, but little more than that.

I would guess that the majority of labs bred now come from tested parents, but not all. Only buy where both parents have clear eye certs dated within one year of the time of the mating. As a rule of thumb, the hips score of both the parents should be below the breed average - commonly quoted as being 16, although I believe recently scored dogs are averaging a bit lower. I would only have a pup from higher scores if there was an exceptional reason for breeding the individual, which as a novice you are unlikely to be concerned with. Neither of these guarantee that your dog wont have problems, but at least you will have done as much as you can.

Look for clean and tidy conditions, and obviously well-cared for stock. The breeder should be knowledgeable and helpful. They really ought to be breeding for a purpose, preferrably to provide a new generation for themselves. They should also have a clear idea of why the mating of that particular dog to that bitch SHOULD result in excellent pups. Most good breeders love 'talking dogs' and I would be put off by someone looking to get you off the premises as soon as possible with a puppy in your hands and a wad of cash in their pockets!

Dont be particularly impressed with having the father on view. They may have an exceptional stud dog or they may just be using a convenient and cheap dog rather than seeking out the best dog for their bitch.

You should always be able to see the mother - I would suggest that she should impress you with her temperament, this is the absolute essence of a labrador. She should not be aggressive or overly shy or aloof. The rest of the labs on-site should also impress you with their temperaments and dare-I-say general manners and obedience.

Lab bitches sell much quicker than males, so if you would like a dog, then you should be able to get a better choice and not have to search for as long. You will have a much better chance of securing a really good black, than a chocolate.

The price of labrador pups is NOT a very reliable indicator of quality, my advice would be dont ever buy a pup just because it is cheap, and dont ever ASSUME that the most expensive pup is any better. Within reason, the price should be a minor consideration in the overall buying decision.

If you can, its best to decide what you are likely to want the pup for :

If you may want to show then go to an established show breeder who regularly has success in the show-ring with 'home-bred' stock. Avoid pure working blood - you'll win nothing!

If you want to work your dog as a gundog then buy working bred (& avoid show).

If you are just looking for a pet, I would suggest going to someone who combines working their dogs with keeping them as family companions. In this way you should get a good combination of trainability and the best attributes of a family pet.

Labs are active, bright dogs and need plenty of physical and mental stimulation. The more you put in, the more you will get out. With careful mangement you will find no breed better with children and other animals, but dont assume that it will just happen on its own.

Are labs destructive? - Oh yes!!

Hi

Two main areas of consideration when buying a Lab puppy is temperment and health. You should only buy a puppy from a litter where both parents have clear eye certs and good hip and elbow scores. Dog papers such as Dogs world and Our Dog have details of breed clubs where you can contact Lab. breeders for information and advice. A sign of a good breeder is one that will "Vet" you and ask you many questions about why you want a puppy, they will be interested in your lifestyle to make sure the puppy has enough stimulation and attention, and they may even ask to visit your house.

Spend some time with the litter, and the mother. They should all  be friendly, nosey, playful and the mother should be calm, proud and attentive of her offspring. Look for puppies that are house reared and not outside in a shed or kennel as then they will already be used to a home/family environment and all the noises etc that come with family life.

Chocolate labs have a bit of a reputation as being a bit more "naughty" than other labs, and because of pigmentation you should be careful when they are out in sunshine. Otherwise there is no difference. We have both male and female black labs, and the male is very laid back and the female a bit more busy, she likes to know about everything that is going on, but they are completely trustworthy with children and also with our cats.

Yes Labs can be destructive, but this is when they are bored. They are very much a peoples dog and like nothing better than to be with their family. I always provide a bone when I know I will be out for a couple of hours and this usually keeps them occupied.

If you want a lab as a show dog, it is essential that you make this clear to the breeder as the dog or bitch must be withing the standards laid down by the Kennel club. Carole Coode of Warrinagh Labradors has written a good book about labs which you might want to read, you can find details on the Warrinagh Labradors website.

Training is essential, start the minute you get the puppy, 5 minutes twice a day is all that is needed to get the basics right. Bring the puppy to training classes, once you've had all the injections etc, and this will allow the puppy to socialise with other dogs which is also important.

Hope the above is helpful.

Izzi

Am going to look at a black dog on saturday - very exciting!  Breeder sounds very good, and the father is very close buy and they don't mind if I visit him.

However, still feel very drawn to rescue a dog, and have found a Lab X Staffie at a rescue centre, approx 1 year to 18 months old.  Her only problem seems to be going to toilet indoors after she's been for a walk, but apparently this is quite easy to sort out.  Her foster carer thinks this is why she's been given to the rescue centre.  She's very friendly and likes kids and cats (I have 2 of each!)!

People keep advising me to not even consider a rescue dog with young children, because you don't know what they've been through, and that staffies are very aggressive (my b-i-l has had 2 staffies from RSPCA and they're both soppy and beautiful!), so am even more confused...

Not sure if I feel like we will have missed out if we get an older dog, rather than a pup.  But I feel so drawn to getting a rescue dog.

It's so hard!

Jules

>>>>>Her only problem seems to be going to toilet indoors after she's been for a walk, but apparently this is quite easy to sort <<<<

Hope  they told you how to do it then?

Its very easy to get carried away with rescuing a dog ( and I am glad as I am in rescue) but you have to weigh up wether you are letting your heart rule your head you have been planning for a puppy and now you are considering this dog which is a labrador Cross Staff. there are wonderful things to like in each of those breeds but they dont always go together,also I am wary that rescue homes etc.. can easily label  a dog as "Labrador cross "when in fact there is no labrador in there at all, Ive lost count of the times Ive been to check on lab crosses and they are not,not that I have anything against cross breeds I havent but you are thinking of bringing in a dog with excess baggage ( messing in the house) and the most important thing you must consider is the children a) that she will be good with them and b) if you cant crack the housetraining you may have to return the dog both distressing for young children.
I think If I were you I would go for the puppy its lovely for children to grow up with a pup choose the name and celebrate birthdays also you can train the pup from the word go.
Sadly the SBT Rescues are full to bursting with unwanted staffs you could consider if you like that breed to go on their homing list for a full staff.  

good luck with your choice.

Hi, we have had our chocolate lab puppy since he was 8 weeks old, he is now 5 months and he is fab. I have 3 kids one of them being only 18 months and they are the best of friends, but you have to watch both of them like hawks ie, baby trying to poke puppy and puppy trying to get food off baby etc.  I personally would opt for a puppy rather than a rescue with having such small children, as like already mentioned they adapt to your situation/family life from the start.  If you get a puppy do go to socialisation it is fun for you and the puppy.  Our puppy goes in his cage no bother and if I am going out for a while I have a kennel outside with an enclosed run which he also uses no bother.  He does chew but so does every puppy so you can't leave shoes or toys lying around coz the next time you look they have got little bite marks on them or worse you have to throw them away.  Anyway hope that helps a little bit.

jules

I agree with Mattie, especially when you have small children you must be totally confident of your dog's temperment. We have black labs and they are totally trustworthy with small children, aged relatives, disabled people, and the total family environment.  Labs are very bidable, eager to please, and want to be part of the family, and when you take a puppy you mould the dog to your environment, and labs being labs usually go with the flo. However your lab puppy is more likely to aid and abet the young children in the mischief stakes, but the typical lab loves it family without condition.

In my experience with rescue dogs, the centres quite often are not given full details of the extent of abuse and you are then taking on an unknown quantity. If you did not have children you are more likely to able to give a rescue dog the time and attention it needs. It is in one sense having a dysfunctional  child on your hands. I would go for the Lab Puppy providing it is from a good source.

I am not trying to go against rescues here i think they do a great job and we had our Bonnie from the RSPCA and she was great but we had her from there as a pup and she hated being left alone because she had been abandonned.
However a friend of mine has recently got a dog from the RSPCA and hes a lovelly little dog, but they have found out that he has a hole in his heart, a leaky valve and some other problem, which is expensive in vets bills. The problem was not known about when he left the RSPCA as they cannot afford for all dogs to have thorough vet checks, they had fallen in love with him by the time they found out and didnt want to take him back but it caused lots of arguments over who pays the bills etc.

Obviously you can get problems with pedigrees from breeders but i know when we got Leo he had been to the vets, been eye tested and had the all clear which was confirmed by our own vet and he is a happy little pup with a great temprement. I would be careful with young children and rescue dogs if you don't know the background.

If you have your heart set on a lab, get a lab, get books - The perfect puppy by Gwen Bailey is a good one to get.
Get a crate and as previously mentioned make sure pup thinks of it as their "den" rather than somewhere you put them when they are naughty. 4 Hours is a long time for a young pup, is there anyone who could come in and let them out? If not i would say get a big crate, one big enough for a bed at one end and some newspaper at the other, although maybe not ideal if the dog thinks the crate is a toilet but better than having to lie in it.

It may also be possible to confine the pup  to an area such as a utility room (best with a childgate rather than shutting in with the door as it's not so claustrophobic) and put Bitter Apple spray or other deterrent such as Vicks or Oil of Cloves along skirting boards, wooden furniture etc. Of course make sure the pup has had a play and/or walk, has toileted hopefully and eaten. Put in one or two good (safe) chew toys such as stuffed Kong.

If you get a good puppy book it will give some advice on how to keep the pup occupied when left alone for short periods and what to actually expect in terms of puppyhood and adolescence :)

I have a breed who dislikes being left and i was determined to have as confident a pup as possible in this area, so the very day we got her we used childgates to separate her for just a few short moments and praised her for accepting being put away from us (we also gave her a chewie toy to amuse herself with at this time, thus making it almost nice to be away from us in this situation). I then progressed to popping out of the house for just 2 or 3 minutes and gradually built this up but also varied times; so once she was happy, she was fine for 4 minutes or 4 hours. I was extremely lucky and had very little chewing compared to my others, but pups will vary and the best way is to just expect some chewing ;).

Lindsay
X

Thanks to all for all your good advice - it certainly has helped.

I have decided to definitely go for a puppy, and you have all helped me to decide - DH pretty much goes along with what I say!

When the kids are older/left home that's when we could rescue a dog.  So, all I have to do now is find a good breeder.  Have found one in Chichester through the Lab Club, and there's another with chocolate labs very near to where I live.  Both have litters due in 10 days time, so puppy would be ready to come home with us in September, which is perfect timing.  And we would have pick of either litter, as I was the first person to phone.

It's very exciting - and very daunting!

Will keep you posted!

Thanks again

Well, have visited the breeder and very much liked what we saw.  She had 8 very healthy happy puppies, and she has another litter due in July.  One from the second litter will be perfect for us as it means we will still be able to have our camping holiday in Scotland like we'd planned.  She had the mum and grandma of the bitch whose litter is due in July, and she had the daughter of the stud, who was very lovely.

We met the dad today of the current litter and the litter due in July (2 different dogs).  The first litter's dad was absolutely gorgeous, very lively and very big!  The litter due in July was sired by an older dog, who had a lovely temperament, but is quite old so obviously not lively, and not so handsome.  The owners were very friendly and knowledgable.  They think the sire of the second litter has sired over 400 pups in his stud dog lifetime!

My dilemma now is do we go for a dog or a bitch?  My husband wants a dog, but I'm not so sure (They're so big!)

Is it true dogs are more devoted, and bitches more independent?  and are dogs more difficult to train?

Any advice gladly received!

This has to be your choice, it is just too personal for anyone else to make for you. I'll just say that I always had dogs until the first bitch. From that time on I have never even considered a dog. Other people are exactly opposite to me and prefer their dogs.

One thing I will say, dog or bitch, once they step through the door you will love it to bits!

Best wishes, John

I always like a litter sired by an older dog, if only because it proves the sire doesn't suffer from a health problem that results in early death!

Dog or bitch? An entirely personal choice. I have had bitches, then dogs, and in future will only have bitches. Other people will tell you the opposite. But whatever gender it is, you will love it!

Choose the pup that appeals to you the most! That's the one you want! Good luck!
:)

I agree with John, it has to be a personal choice. Sometimes the puppy picks you and the decision is taken away from you.  My bitch is busy, and wants to be in charge - but the dog is quite happy to go with the flow.