I was wondering what everyone's take on this website and their proclaimations about breeding research is. I have a hard time swallowing much of what is said! The photos, too, show a lot of variety in what they produce. Still, there must be a market for this sort of thing or they wouldn't be able to sell their dogs. I noticed they are also starting to breed "miniature" labradoodles too. :rolleyes: Happy browsing!

Teagan Park

I think they should concentrating on establishing type first but they seem to be more concerned with coat and colour.

I noticed they have a pregnant bitch they are trying to sell & export out to expand the breed. It also looks like there are a fair amount of dogs kept and bred. Too bad they don't list puppy prices. It would be interesting to know how much they charge for one of these "wonderful" dogs.

All I can say is that it looks like someone is making rather a lot of money out of the business!

And I still don't approve!

John

John,
Don't get me wrong, but you just make me smile when I read your posts, regardless even if I agree or disagree with you :D :D :D

toodles

John has that affect on people :) dont you John ;)

Yep! everyone laughs at me! :(

John: Crying into his malt.

Puir auld John :( Well, is it a good malt, at least? Scotch --single?

EEEEEWWWWW John!

Salt water with Malt??

Are you mad?

:D

You hitting the Malt this early John? tut tut,thought you had more restraint :) :)

That's strange coz he always makes me smile too, and there's something about his posts that always conjures up 'respect' in my mind it's kind of hard to say what I mean.......

Even if he does add 'water' to his malt:D

Anita

Anita, I'm in complete agreement with you. Baffled by the humourous laugh I get from John's writings, but very much respecting of his opinion & experience.

If it's good strong Scotch, a couple of salty teardrops, won't make too much difference. Just as long as it's neat & not "on the rocks" :D
toodles

7 year old Single Malt (Out of respect for my Scots ancesters I do add a spot of water to it!) although when you lot pick on me it all tastes like Meths!

From a Highly Harrased John :( :(

I agree with John,It seems to me anything to make money
this day and age .

Quinn,

Wish you had warned me about the sound...Just made me jump out of my skin :D

Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will anyway) but arn't there already a dogs which don't have 'hair' but 'wool' instead? Like.... POODLES for example

Just makes me think of an 'upmarket' puppy farm, just a money making business thinly disguised as research. What exactly are they researching?

Had a quick look and unfortunately I bet they get lots of customers cos although I hate to say it they do look cute. But how could you tell anyone that the dog you have is called a spoodle!? Gina

Just because these people don't want your type of dog doesn't give you the right to put down that type of dog and threat them in a derisory:( manner especially since you're supposed to be dog lovers and anyone could do that to you.

!! And being dog lovers, we know how many unfortunate pedigree but mostly x-breed dogs end up in rescues, sanctuaries 'et al'.....I think it's disgusting that in the name of 'research', people are making money off of dogs that are just that...X-Breeds!! If you want one, support the rescues and not some BYB!!
JMO as ever!!

i know people should just go to rescue centers :o but if people want to buy this breed we shouldn't treat them with derisory even if we don't agree with them . Oh and i not saying i agree with the people buying the people who breed these dog and the people that buy them . :p

As a thought, and please don’t get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick a fight but can you give me a good reason for the breeding of them. When the illustrious Reverend produced the Jack Russell Terrier he was trying to produce the ultimate ratter. By the same token the Lord of Tweedsmuir was attempting to produce a better retriever. What is the reason for the LabradorXPoodle?

Regards, John

There are true breeds with exactly the same coat and look, and of course yes I own one of these breeds, but there is no way that I wd. try and promote my breed in the way that some of these kennels do.

The main fault with these breeds is that people try to make out that they are good for people with allergies, most people are allergic to the dander (skin) and not the coat, so this makes no difference at all.

I'm not sure john but i think it was for blind people that had asthma or allergies though by the look of it it wasn't very succesful because of the obvious that most people are allergic to dander , but i don't know what their like or anything so i cant say if the dog doesn't shed because i own a coton de tulear

You are a Coton owner! One of the few!!! I've got a very soft spot for them :)

As you say, the original experiment was for Guide Dogs but the experiment was not the success which was hoped for and according to my information is not to be repeated (Although as we all know, never is a very long time!)

I can understand and accept this as a justified experiment and a number of other similar experiments go on. Another cross the GDFB tried was of course the Lab/Golden cross which was a roaring success! The interesting thing about that cross was that it only worked as a first cross. Attempts to "Fix" the charactistics by breeding from the crosses failed because for some reason the bad side came out and the good side was missing!

As I said on another thread, establishing a new breed is not simply a matter of putting two different breeds together.

Regards, John :)

If you think about it it's quite sad that it didn't work seeing as it was quite an ingenious idea and it would have been a great step for Guide dogs .:(
And as you said making a new breed is not just a matter of putting 2 breeds together but i doubt they will not try to improve the Labradoodle.:rolleyes:

If you go down through the breeds, every one has a function in life! Even the toys, the Lap Dogs who's job it was to attract it's owner's flea's! The Terriers for ratting and the like. Working dogs for guarding. Gundogs, the shooting companion. The list goes on! But I still have to ask the question, what is the Labradoodle for? The only reason I can see is to make money. People paying over the odds for something which has no claim to be anything but a cross! If "The Flower" got out and mated with a GSD (Heaven forbid!) the result would be a LabradorXGSD and I would do my very best to rear the puppies in the best possible way but when it got time to sell those puppies the figure they would fetch would be minimal. In the case of the Labradoodle the cross is being hyped up into something which it is not in order (as far as I can see) to sell the puppies at vastly inflated prices! That may be good business sense but it is not (To me anyway) justified in the dog sense.

Regards, John

John,
Don't despair if your Flower gets out & breeds with a GSD. I had a lab/Shep mix & have known quite a few others & they were all wonderful dogs. I've always wondered why no one ever set out to determine a permanent cross for the complimentary breeds. Something like the Bullmastiff.

I think that the permanent & studied coupling of these breeds could be interesting. In the unplanned mixes that I knew (about 12 over 5 years), it seemed that the brains of the GSD mixed with the playfulness of the Lab created calm, smart, water retrieving, watch & guard dogs without a lot of the agression problems that seem to be inherent in male gsds. At least they'd be more useful probably than the labradoodle (lordy, what a name).

anyway, just some late night tired ramblings after a very loud & chaotic day. I'll probably look at this later and wonder what I was thinking...then again, maybe not :D

you're correct it isn't justified dog sense but the people seling them are making a profit and as far i as can see it seems like a good business:rolleyes:( not like i'd do anything like that) but it is definitely morally bankrupt.:(

Couldn't agree more TicTac! Trouble is, all these nasty people on this board love to wind up poor defence less old men like me! :rolleyes:

From a feeling his age, John

John, I would also not think that the best of foundation stiock is being used to produce these crosses? I can't see anyone with top class health tested examples of the respec tivbe poarent breeds, wasting their reproductibe capacity to produce crossbreeds!

But the only problem is that these people are breeding these dogs and making a lot of money and (luckily) are selling these dogs ( very well ) so that they have become hard to come by especially in the UK . This retrospection is quite true to life some breeds are more popular than others and this breed is one of them and for some it is bad new and for others it good news.

If in fact this is the founding of a new breed then the founding of a breed with anything but the best stock is a disaster in the making. Nothing will ever make me approve of these people are doing!

Regards, John

I'm totally confused now. This discusion seems to be going on all over the place - at least 2 threads. I've copied my question from the other thread as that is now locked. Here goes:
Reading this thread the consensus seems to be that all dogs are great in their own way, pedigrees, cross breeds, lurchers etc. We are all "dog lovers" so god bless 'em all. My concern with so-called designer dogs is that they are being bred in haste to give people the latest thing, a fashion accesory if you will. It is my understanding that it takes a long time to establish a healthy breed which comes true to type. I once read that it took an inordinate length of time for the original pekinese breeders to develop that breed but that they saw this as a long process and not one to be rushed. They were willing to wait for generations of careful selection and breeding to get it right. Are these schnoodle etc. breeders rushing things ? I am probably wrong here. What do others think ?

I believe you are dead right Hugen. If you read anything about how the Rev Jack Russell developed his terrier, that took years and during that time he went down a number of blind alleys. It was his liftimes work, not a money making venture. To just take two breeds and stick em together is not developing a new breed!

Regards John

I have been following this thread with interest and have looked at the site mentioned.
1. The health temperiment quality etc of so called foundation stock is
not really mentioned.
2. There is no standard to breed to.
3. We do not know the pedigree of each parent are they pure breeds.
My personal view is these dogs are no more selectively breed than
letting Fifi meet Fido on the corner then selling pups as a one off.
There are lots of one of a kind dogs in any dogs home around the country
but thats human nature people think a big price means they are aquiring
something special. As for the sellers giveing adult size of these pups
they will come a cropper .
What happens to pups that are born which have a leaning toward one parent, who wants a labradoodle that looks like a labrador.
The pregnant bitch photographed for sale dident look so good to me.
Her comformation looks terrible. Dont jump at me I refer to the point for future health not showing.

<<<If "The Flower" got out and mated with a GSD (Heaven forbid!)>>>

I don't know about 'Heaven forbid'...it would be my Gus's idea of 'Heaven'!! (he adores Labrador's)

Don't you think Labraherd's has a nice 'ca-ching' to it?? ;) ;) ;) <-- to show I really am kidding!!

(but I just couldn't help meself!!):D

lancashire poodheeler.
Mind you they do enough already.
I cannot believe people can be sucked in so much. Or there are alot of folk out there with money to burn.
The link site to the one we have been looking at gives a price of $750.
There are restrictions that the new owner spay/neuter there pet in the first six months. As they are advertised to go at 8 weeks the pups would need full vaccinations also. Thats roughly £700 for a cross breed.
The breeders have no cost for registerations etc.
Bet there will be alot jumping on that wagon.

Jaqui,
I think I like Shehador or Shephador more as the "official" breed name of the lab/gsd cross. Either sounds very exotic ;) :D
toodles

I have to add I think the best name for a labxGSD is Jabba!! She is currently going through an identify crisis though, well her ears are; one is sitting up like a good GSD & the other is flopping down like a lovely Lab. V v v cute, but maybe this is why we don't encourage cross breeds! Have to say though I would have another LabXGSD in a flash. She has all the fun and playfulness of a Lab (despite her senior years) with the guarding protective proud nature of a GSD. Of course she also has the round-of-tummy nature of her Lab ancestry too.
Keep Smiling!

You should point out all these crosses to Emma Milne the vet she'd love you for that after all they arent those horrible deformed pedigrees shes hates so much.

I like Shephador!! ;)

Nah I like Shepadors!

That's what I said....only my 'h' was 'silent'!! ;) :D

I replied before I read yours :D Wasn't being sarkie to you, only teasing John gently!

John that us a lovely description of the start breeding a new breed would need, and also the various steps would have to be repeated to get the desired breadth in the gene pool!

It is similar when a colour is bred for, or to establish it as a seperate breed, getting a broad enough and healthy enough gene poolis the problem in a modern age where the really rigourous culling needed would be hardto achieve, and the facilities to keep large numbers are more limited than in the past!

We have enough work to do to perfect and maintain the breeds we have, and quite a number are at serious risk of disappearing! I really think if people look hard enough there is enough scope with what we alreadyhave. If someone has thee kind of dedication such an undertaking would require, then mst breeds would be all to pleased to have such a breeder in their ranks!

There's also a "Doodleman"- Poodle X Doberman

And a coodle Colliex poodle bred for agility primarily have seen a couple and they looked like bearded collies

just had a look, They look like very curly yorkshire terriers to me

Pat

OK then, let’s look at about how we would develop a new breed!

First thing is an aim! After all, there are so many breeds of dog that if anyone wants to create another they should be aiming at a specific area which is not covered by any other existing breed otherwise what is the point?

Right then, as a working gundog person I'm going to develop the perfect gundog! Now, to me anyway, the top retriever on a shoot is the Labrador! Controllable, handleable, reasonable nose, soft mouthed but. . . .Not the ideal dog for the beating line! That without doubt is the Springer! Busy, not too wide ranging with a natural working patten. So, this is the dog for me, A Springador!

So how would I set about the job? First thing I'd do is to get 2 Labrador bitches and 2 Springer Dogs of the very best calibre I can find embodying all the characteristics I need. All health checks would have to be as near perfect as possible because after all, to start a new breed, new line or for that matter new anything using substandard material would be crazy!

This allows me to produce 2 totally unrelated litters for the first generation at around year 2 in the process. I would hope for something like equal amounts of dogs to bitches in order to keep the program in balance. Assuming only one or two of one sex and its back to the drawing board for another try! Hopefully, if all has gone well and I have plenty of both sexes to work with I would keep possibly the bitches and pass the dogs to trusted friends.

During the next 2 years training and working would be the order of the day to build a picture of how I am getting on with achieving my aims. At two years old and its time for the next stage.

Stage two. The mating of the bitches from one litter to the dogs of the other. Everything outcrosses at this stage. Now as everyone knows, the new puppy is always the hardest puppy to handle that we have ever had!!! (Rose coloured glasses and that) So I would also repeat the first mating's again in order to have a benchmark to compare the second stage puppies with. Hopefully the puppies will be breeding true to type, (some at least!) I may well have to discard some puppies that were not true to type but assuming some are then on to stage three.

Stage three. This is going to be the line bred litter, it must be because that’s all we have by now. I will only be using the best pair of bitches and dogs so I have some not too closely related puppies to work with.

From now on the breeding program would follow these lines using only the best stock combined with occasional pedigree Labrador or Springer outcrosses to bring in fresh blood.

Maybe, in view of my original aim I might decide that the new breed is a little large to fulfil the beating side of its roll so maybe I might decide to add a little Cocker blood into the line in order to reduce the overall height by an inch or so.

By now there would be too many dogs around for me to be able to manage on my own so I would be trying to place them into sympathetic shooting homes. This way I get feedback on the working abilities of the puppies. Of course, there is no way I could charge for the puppies and still maintain control of the breeding program so it really is a labour of love.

Gradually, over a period of years, with selective breeding I would start to get something which bred true to type. From now on it’s a matter of gradually increasing the size of the gene pool until there is enough blood for the new breed to support it's self.

All this would take years! With the time needed to achieve what I want, to prove that it will breed true and get enough would take a lifetime! Certainly The Rev did not live to see his Terriers accepted by the KC.

Like I said in another post, producing a new breed is rather more than just putting two dogs together!

Regards, John

Round of applause.

Ah, John, if my esteemed spouse was here, he would love to debate his living ideal of the perfect gundog with you. ---the Brittany --

His grandfather, father, & uncles raised them for decades and are all firmly convinced that hands down, it is the most all around general hunting dog out there. Flush, retrieve, track, and everything else, I guess this amazing dog does...well, except mature. According to everyone I've ever met, they are puppy until their last final breath.

Personally, I don't know enough about them or hunting to debate the merits of one breed versus another :D But I do like your outline on developing a new breed.
toodles