I have a 2 year old terrier with whom I do agility with, things are going ok but at shows he forgets all his training and basically does what he likes....

Lots of people tell me that he does not respect me at all and I need to show him that I am the leader and that he is not...I have tried to read up about this but I am at a loss at what to do.  I would say that he generally obeys, he sits, stays (not at shows) and does all that type of thing.  Sometimes when I let him off the lead he ignores me but I would say that his recall is average...sometimes he comes sometimes he does not.  He does not sleep on the bed, stays either in his cage or on the floor in the car, he does not growl at me or anything like that...I am not sure how to get him to respect me more.  I do go to dog training once or twice a week, at my local club the lady recommended another trainer as she basically could not cope with him...he does go a bit crazy doing agility there and the person I train with now has really helped me, I do not really know where to go from here...

Hi Elay, I don't think that the issues you have described have anything to do with dominance but everything to do with the fact he is a terrier.

Whilst I would agree that ALL dogs can be trained to realise their maximum potential, this potential will differ between breeds (and individuals) and terriers were generally bred to excel at hunting and despatching things largely on their own initiative rather than working closely with man like gundogs, working and pastoral breeds.

Terriers tend to do their own thing hence why you don't see many of them in the obedience ring at Crufts :D

Having said all that dogs do what is most rewarding and so the key to your dog is finding out what it is that he would sell his soul for............. then he will be less likely to ignore you.

Not sure if that helps though :(

All the terriers I  know are very food orientated, we managed to get a border terrier from having the attention span of a flea to really giving her all for her handler. So much so that her handler has entered her in some obedience a week on sunday. She doesn't even have offer the food now just a tap on her bait pocket gets her to focus, she even ignores my acvalier who she adores for the possiblity of a treat-just a thought

I have my doubts about "dominance" by any dog, they don't conciously think "I must be the boss"simply they want to be leader to pass on their genes as part of nature, some dogs just have a bigger drive than others IMHO

Well it makes me feel a bit better!

Unfortunately not only is he a terrier but everyone cannot get over the temperament that he has! I suppose there is no hope! No he has improved loads...

After my disaster this Saturday (which all the spectators though was very funny, he went through the tunnel three times in a circle, there was nothing that I could do to stop him) I am going to be going back to the 'training board' (again) before anymore humiliation....

He is very food motivated and this has worked in stopping him barking at other dogs when they are running, a quick rustle of the bag and I have his total attention...

It is just difficult when everyone keeps telling me that he is dominating me, my question is in what way and what can I fo to work on this...

He probably thought there were some rats in the tunnel :D :D

I think you should just ingore folks who go on and on about dominance ;)

ELay, youre not alone :) been there and designed the t shirt which says "wHEN YOURE NOT LOOKING HES GREAT" Im sorry but I had to chuckle at this wee hairy terrier going for his encore 3 times, tunnels must be heaven for terriers just as aviaries excite Manic Morse. On a serious note if possible, I did find the public humiliation occurred becuase I hadnt proofed a behaviour properly for distractions first so hadnt finished conditioning the right response. Also find Morse just loves an audience and will blow if too excited. Only thing to do then is laugh , regain control and write it off as a bad day. Can imagine keeping control of excited running dogs in agility is pretty hard and they do go over the top sometimes, also know form my limited experience that Morse can get confused and not do what I want, can honestly not read the signals sometimes like when the wind is blowing in my face, carrying my calls back to me, I forgot the dog whistle and hes way left in the trees, or (on a full moon) he can take the mickey. But dominate? No. I did worry about the dominance thing as a new owner just as I used to worry about spoiling as a new mother, not now as I have more confidence. Saying something 50 times dosent make it right and everyone aint infallible, you know your dog.

I do not feel that he is dominating me, it seems like the excitment is too much for him and he just looses it.  When I do think about it it brings a smile to my face but at the time I did have a few stern looks from some members of my club.(Thanks for your support!)

The first two runs of the day were a disaster, he did not sit stay as normal (as I try to get as far ahead as possible for when the bomb explodes), before I new it he was already on the dog walk...and had leapt off the zone area and was heading off to the next obstacle - I already knew humiliation was not far away....his motivation does get the better of him. I NEED ONE OF THOSE T-SHIRTS!

After a quick briefing with my trainer we almost managed a clear round... thats another story.  I just find it disheartening when all these more experienced handlers keep telling me that I need to be stricter with him (perhaps) and do more obedience training before doing agility. When I am not doing agility he does listen to me on the whole, before I go into the ring I do a bit of heal work etc and he is very attentive its just in the ring that it looks like I have never done agility before....

Doesn't sound like he is "dominating" you to me - sounds like he is distracted by all the fun at the show. My young collie is the same - works a treat at home but get to a class (he hasn't got as far as a show yet! :) ) and he completely loses it - won't listen, barks with excitement etc. We are working on it - going back to basics and just getting him to watch me, play with me, stay quiet etc. It is pure excitement and youth in his case. But I understand your frustration!!

Good luck
Janet

Keep the sense of humour, Elay dont be disheartened by the old and bold who may well feel theyre offering helpful hints on the control front. This is why Morse and I dont do agility yet, Im just too cowardly to risk it! Maybe those who compete here can offer some hints on reducing stage fright. Good luck and remember to tell us when things improve :)

A large stiff drink can help or if you don't drink rescue remedy(in brandy base ;) )

I would do some basic obedience & concentrate on getting him to focus on you(titbit bag rattling is good for this).

If you can get his focus on you this should transfer to the agility, but hey as long as he is enjoying it it can't be bad

As to those who frown on his behaviour I wonder if their dogs even get to enjoy agility or if they were all perfect from day one. I know my obedience dogs never were

I think it will take a while before I dare do agility 'in public' again! I was not particularly nervous myself but thanks to my little treasure I definately will be next time! I will get myself some rescue remedy in preparation...

As for him, I dont think it was stage fright - quite the opposite (well he did show everyone how good he was at tunnels!)

I will keep you updated as everyone tells me what a great dog he is, once he will be 'under control'!

you mean you are going to deprive his public of spectator sport :D :D

Most of us have been there, read the book, seen the film and bought the T shirt.  I know I have! :D  There is nothing like a few walls of death etc.  Agility, and all other disciplines, should be fun!  I am as competitive as the next person but if you don't want to be publicly humiliated never go out with children or dogs!

I am sure most people were laughing with you not AT you; I take the attitude that if I can bring a little bit of joy/fun/laughter into someone else's life then it matters not if my round was good or not.

(Also if they are talking about me/my dog they are leaving some other poor s*d alone :D :D

Just go out and enjoy yourself!

YES!

He definately amused lots of people, at the time I felt that I had been publically humiliated and was ready to throttle him! Especially when he started barking at me and doing these little backward jumps -as if to shout come on come on... The positive note being that after the last run (which was more suited to him) he did behave reasonably - only not going into the weaves properly - there were loud applause (which I have captured on the video tape!)

I am sure that there were laughing AT him, they could not have been laughing with me as I was not laughing (seems silly now, but at the time I wanted to ground to open up for us!)

At the end of the day my boy is definately enjoying himself (well at least the agility bit because the early mornings are a bit of a problem for him...he has problems getting out of bed...), that is what is the most important...

It sounds to me as if your boy is having a wonderful time :-) and being a typical terrier, Does it really matter if you do well or not as long as you both have a good time? Why  worry if people laugh, at least you will have brightened their day and not many can say that :-D. I think you should forget the word 'dominant' and substitute it with 'singleminded' and enjoy your dog for the chatacter he is .

Hi ELay

Sometimes it is not dominance but terriers do tend to be 'bossy', 'determined', 'strong willed' and 'stubborn', it's part of the make-up, it's not good having a 'ratter' if it gives up when the prey goes to ground.

It may well be that your dog has learned how to behave in one situation but not in another (shows).  Keep persevering with the training and train in different locations so that your dog learns he must obey you wherever you are!

Thanks for that, that is something my trainer has suggested - lots of projects to work on, I suppose it would not be interesting otherwise!

Hi ELay

I have just read all your other replies and your responses and see that your dog gets very excited by the presence/movement/noise (?) of what goes on around him.

Have you tried TTouches to calm him?  I am working with a terrier whose owners gave him up because they could not cope with his behaviour.  He also gets very excited about his environment and frustrated if he can't get to what he wants. (He almost pulled me into the duck pond the first time I took him to the park!!).  His biggest problem was reaction to traffic.  He reacted so badly to traffic passing our garden that I could not get him to respond to me at first - he just stood and quivered.  I taught him to sit and used TTouches every time a vehicle went by and now he takes absolutely no notice of vehicles passing by.  He carries on playing with his ball or doing heelwork training - whatever.  Linda Tellington-Jones has written a couple of books on Tellington Touches (TTouches) and they may help you.  

my friend does obedience with her border terrier,she finds hes not really interested in toys APART from our local hunt has given her a foxes brush that shes got on a bungy! he goes crazy for it!!!!

I am sure that he would adore one of those!

He is quite motivated by food, so I am going to try with that.  He loves squeaky toys (they dont last 5 seconds with him) but to keep him reasonably calm (huh) and concentrated I think that food will be the best thing!