We obtained Buffy a rescue border collie cross (mostly border collie) at about 14 weeks old.  She was at first very shy but has been brought up with our other dog Sadie a two year Labrador/Springer cross which has given her a lot of confidence. Sadie is very 'laid back' and Buffy tries to be top dog.
Now at one year, Buffy's generally a very obedient dog but seems to be developing a problem.  She's always barked at sounds (i.e. doorbell) and large birds in the garden and is very wary when meeting new people whether in the home or out and about but does settle after a while.  Generally when she meets other dog owners she is at her most comfortable and will sniff at them and allow the odd pat. 
However, if we met people without a dog, she would bark at them and back away but now this is just beginning to get a bit aggressive, she barks and goes towards them which is obviously a concern.
We don't really know what to do for the best, as she has been pretty well socialised, but this does seem to be getting worse.
We would be grateful for any suggestions.

I never view barking as aggression(ok behaviourists on here shoot me down), growling & snarling can be aggressive or a warning to back or & leave alone

I have cavaliers that bark at people & dogs to get their attention & they are certainly not aggressive. I can make mine be quiet, because I have taught a quiet command

Do you go to any training classes at all ? These can be used with the trainers co-operation to get her used to not barking at people without dogs, simply by getting people o walk towards her until she she barks, you then have some idea on her personal space & work on very gradually reducing this. You can also reward for no reaction & eventually get the person without the dog to be seen as something that if she does not react she gets a reward for seeing

I'm interested in the fact you say she is mostly border collie is this from looks or knowledge of her breeding(like her mother was a BC etc). looks can be very deceptive, I know of a BC look alike that is a Golden x Standard poodle, apart from the ears he looks just like a classically marked BC in size coat etc. He was conceived whilst a friends bitch was in boarding kennels alone belonging to a labrador/golden breeder & DNA tests showed her ageing golden stud dog was the father of the forunately singleton puppy. The poodle is white the golden was dark gold. & he is mainly black with white markings(Poodle is black bred)He acts like a retriever tho'

Welcome to the forum Joan. Could you explain what action you take when she displays this behaviour? How do you react?

When dogs are frightened of something they will bark menacingly in order to put distance between themselves and whatever they are afraid off.  It usually works and eventually it becomes a learned behaviour (habit).  With practice they will become more confident in their actions which will account for the moving towards people whilst barking.  She doesn't really need to practice doing it and if at all possible I would be looking at ways of occupying her, maybe by playing a game with her or keeping your distance from what is likely to set her off.  It is possible to desensitise a dog to it's fears but it should only be done with expert help as you could run the risk of making things worse. 

I'm not an expert on the use of them, but you could also try some sort of herbal/homeopathic/holistic remedy which may make her calmer. I tend to agree that she is now going towards people because she has gained confidence and is maturing, but mostly because she has learned that barking will get people to go away.

If you do lots of obedience and use toys to train her and for reward, you may find she is quite controlllable and stops her barking. She may even be relieved that she has something to do that you are directing her on to rather than having her focus onto people :) If you take this route you will need to start away from people and only move towards them when she is calm; it may take a while.

Lindsay
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Thanx for correcting me I knew I was totally wrong I really must get to grips with behaviour theory, after curing a few dogs problems similar to this with only parctical experience it would have been quicker had I known the correct & current theories, before I started.  It is interesting to know that years of practical experience counts for nothing these days & that knowing the theory is the way to go.

Moonmaiden,  I can't speak for Lindsay but my response was based on years of practical experience, working with and living with dogs with behaviour problems.  Off course an understanding of some of the theory helps but practical experience does not count for nothing, it wins hands down every time.  I don't have a lot of time to study and never have but I am lucky to have a colleague (much younger than me) who does. 

It sounds to me like this dog wasn't socialized enough. You say she was pretty well socialized but maybe she needs more. But usually that needs to be saturated when they're really young. Or it could just be her temperament.

Do you have many friends that she knows? Does she act like that with the people she knows well? If not, you could practice her with them. If you act super friendly and at ease, not let on that you're worried or nervous about the upcoming meeting, it might help her to see that you like to meet other people. They really are intuned with our moods and can read us like a book. And like it was said, all the while she's not acting like that, you can make her a party with treats and praise, play etc. And the minute she starts in I'd talk in a reassuring, but matter of fact voice, like it's no big deal, "there... quit now, you're all right"  but not sounding like cooing or praise. I do think ignoring in lots of cases works well, but maybe in this one, she needs a little calming from your voice since she's afraid and at the same time acting out. If you walk out ahead of her, that may ease her a little. But I would get her around just one or two people at first, not overwhelm her where there are a lot of people.

I know horses are different than dogs, but with my horses, if they were afraid of something, there's no way I would ignore them. I always used a calming, low voice to reassure them. If I had ignored them when they were shying from something, they'd have a hard time feeling at ease on their own. I've never had a dog be too afraid of anything, but if they occasionally are, I don't completely ignore. I downplay or try to be cheerful and matter of fact, not that they think I'm rewarding or giving a lot of attention for it, but enough to let them know I'm with them on this. Then make a fuss when they show signs of being OK with it. Just my .02 worth. And I'm sure there are some on here who think just that....just .02 worth. LOL.

Carrie

In my opinion, whether or not barking should be considered aggressive, depends upon the dog's body language.  there are many stances a dog makes including one for aggression, one for fear, one for friendly, etc.........  i think before saying whether a dog is being aggressive or not, one has to see the dog in action.  there are no rules set in stone, even for the proclaimed behaviorist or super experienced person.

i would say also, to socialize her more and more.  when she acts this way that you speak of, don't get mad or anything.  i agree that mostly ignoring and sometimes a soothing "okay....you're okay"  can be helpful to calm her nerves. 

just get her out there around all kinds of people every day.  good luck!

My border collie used to do a similar thing with men, and there is another border collie owner on this forum who had the same problem as you, although i think the dog is much better now. I find that if the dog is toy orientated (My meg is obsessed with her ball) every time i saw a man coming along i would get her ball out or alternatively put a treat on her nose so that she is distracted. If she was focused on me instead of barking i made sure that i acted as if this was the best thing that could've happened. After a while she got to see people coming as a good thing, and looked to me. Border collies need work to do and if megan is not distracted she will often do stupid things, but now i have realise that she will ignore anything if i take the ball out with me! I think the other owner on her used a similar strategy. It is also a good idea to try some desensitisation, but this must be done correctly to avoid making her fear worse. For example if i saw someone i knew i would stop, put the dog on the lead and talk to the person, asking them not to look at the dog or pay any attention to her. If she wasn't barking i would give them a treat to drop on the floor, and as she got bolder i asked them to offer it to her. However, as you are the best judge about your own dog, you can assess what the best solution is. If you feel that the dog is likely to attack or feel unable to deal with the problem, it may be an idea to find a trainer or behaviourist to assist you.
Just out of interest has she just turned one? I have been tolds that dogs go through a second fear period between 12 months and 15 months. Alternatively if she is nearer two she may be maturing and gaining in confidence that she can protect herself.

To All, Just to fill in a bit of extra detail, Buffy is just a year old, her mother was a full blown border collie on a farm and the dad was mostly border with a touch of something else.  Rescue home seems to think it may have been a pointer.  You are right in that when strangers stop and look at her it sets off her barking.  She has made many friends (including dogs) in our village and the longer she knows them the happier she is.  She is very much a doggy's dog more than a people dog and is generally submissive with dogs, approaching them on her tummy.
With regard to how we react, we have tried various ways including, telling her to stop it; ignoring her; giving her a treat; attempting to get the other person to give her a treat (generally that doesn't work).
The second fear period maybe what's happening and is something we haven't heard of before.
Buffy has been to training and we are soon starting an agility class which is done in a light hearted way and encourages a lot of mixing with people and dogs.
As new members we have been really impressed with the kind interest shown by everyone and we are very grateful for all the advice.

When you say she approaches other dogs on her tummy - do you mean in a kind of commando crawl?  This isn't actually submissive, but more an extension of hunting behaviour.  A truly submissive dog rolls right onto it's back and allows the other dog to come to them........

Hi Bruceg

The eye contact may well make your dog uncomfortable.

Telling her to stop barking is only useful if she understands exactly what you are telling her to do.  :D  One reason why owners of dogs that bark inappropriately are encouraged to teach their dogs to bark and then teach them to be quiet (rather than shut up) :D

When do you give her a treat, you need to be very careful with this as you could inadvertently reinforce the barking.

If she feels uncomfortable in the presence of people, those approaching with treats are not going to make her feel less so; if you were frightened of spiders would you feel less frightened if someone came towards you with one and bar of Dairy Milk? :D

A programme of desensitisation and counter conditioniing will work and be non - confrontational and so not increase any stress that she may already be feeling.

Good Luck

Moonmaiden, I'm not sure if your reponse was to me or to someone else, but if it was to me i'm not sure how you think i corrected you? :)

If i put forward a slightly different way of doing things then that is simply my opinion, not intended to start an argument or to insult. Again if you were referring to me, not sure why you would think i look at learning theory but have no practical experience as you don't know meor what i do. I do put into practical application myself things that i suggest for others - and of course several different methods may work :) so in my view there's not a problem.

Lindsay
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hi we have had similar problems with my border collie she was very close to being pts because it became so bad that she had started to try to bite when in a very stressfull situation or if people she didnt know where in our home but with the correct help and lots and lots of work (and I do mean lots and its still on going every day) we are starting to get things under control. never underestimate your dog if stressed enough by meeting these people she may well try to bite as Tula did. we can now have people in our house although I always muzzle her at first for there saftey and hers and we always muzzle her out doors as we have no controll over who will be a problem we always allow her to chose when and who she wants to speak to never forcing her into a situation she doesnt like doing this along with other suggestions from a behaviour therapist  we now have a dog that is on the whole more relaxed when she meets people and no longer tries to bite when she is in a situation she doesnt like  although great care is always needed when she meets someone new

Hi there

I too own two border collies.  One 15 months who is an absolute dream and one who is only 6 months old and has lots of problems.  He does this to a certain extent in that he rushes up to people barking at them and then backs off as soon as they start to approach him.  If we are in a crowded area he does nothing and only does this if we are in a field and meet someone along the way. 

The best solution I have found is calling him back as soon as I see someone rewarding him for coming back, most of the time with his ball, and that way his attention is fully on me.  I let the people walk by and will reward him with a treat if they walk by and he does nothing.  Sometimes he sees people before I do like today but the barking has got a lot better and he only barked twice and then looked over at me as if to say 'so go on then where's my ball'.  Patience and lots of training. 

If you are going to take on a BC you need to keep them busy both mentally and physically all of the time.  Agility and obedience training being ideal.  We do both with the older one and obedience with the younger one.  The older one has even been asked to take part in the Wag and Bone show in August with Ian Dunbar so I am a very proud owner indeed..

Sorry I have yapped on a bit but I just love the boys.

Claire

Hello
I also have 2, 1 year old BC's. We had lots and lots of trouble with Dolly at first and we actually had to see a behaviourist. I wont go into all the in's and out's otherwise I'll go in for hours.:)

Dolly would do exactly the same as your BC if she saw someone that I think scared her she would run over to them barking and barking but backing away at the same time, she did occassionally move forward towards them but it made her worse if they did ignore her. If they turned around and shouted at her she would run off.

When the behaviourist came to see Dolly she basically told us that she thought she was the boss and not us and the barking was normally because she was protecting me. She sleeps in the kitchen isnt allowed upstairs but when it came to other things she would rule the roost. Again she was very obedient always did what she was told. We were advised that the first exercise would be to let them in the living room with us and just ignore them. They used to always want to play, have something thrown for them etc. We have carried on doing this since the day the behaviourist came and guess what??, Dolly hasnt barked at anyone at all, she even goes up to people to say hello, which she NEVER did before. She loves the fuss to, I have to say I actually cried when she did it the first time because it was such a relieve.

I dont know why your BC is barking at people it could be for a different reason but it seems funny that the behaviour is exactly the same as Dollys.

Also I 100% agree with what other peopl have said about taking a toy out with you when walking, dolly loves her's and doesnt care about anything else.

We are going on holiday tomorrow with the collies and my Bichon and my Dads JRT, I cant wait that will be a real challenge!! I'm sure they will be fine, it's knew and very exciting.

Good luck and it'll be ok

Jo
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