I have a 3 year old Old English sheepdog and am considering buying a bitch to breed from.  I live on a farm and despite what some rather strange people have been saying on this site it is not to do with the money!  (if I make enough to cover expenses Ill be more than happy!) I just wanted to know what I was setting myself up for!  If I buy a pup now what are the chances that she will mate with my dog when she is old enough??

Well she should be at least 2 before you breed from her which means your dog would be 5 Have you used him at stud before ? If not 5 is a bit old to start using a dog

If you have a male & a female they may or not be willing to mate & owning a stud dog is not easy,.

They should both be X rayed for HD & be under the breed average & I personally would have them both eye tested as well.

You would need to research your dogs pedigree to find a bitch puppy that is compatible, which might not be very easy

OES are susceptible to hereditary cataracts so yes, they should be eye tested.

Regards, John

I knew there was something John but couldn't remember what

Are you aware that your dogs temperament my change after he discovers s*x? - He may pine every time a bitch in the area is in season (no idea how they know but some do :D ) This frustration can be expressed in various ways from whining and howling, not eating to trying to escape and anything in between. 
Are you prepared to pay for your bitch to see the vet out of hours (usually at midnight on a bank holiday :rolleyes:) and possibly be out of pocket once the litter leaves? - you won't necessarily cover your expenses and could well be 'out of pocket' by the time the litter leaves. 
Could you tell someone that they couldn't have one of your pups (because they are unsuitable) when it might mean that more than one pup remains unsold at nine or ten weeks and eating thier heads off!!

The link below is for weimaraners but the same points apply, there are some really good points to consider about the true cost of breeding.

http://www.annemaries.co.uk/costrev.htm

Good luck - whatever you decide to do.
Regards
Dill

Living with an entire dog & bitch can be very wearing when the bitch is in season - most people will say it simply isn't worth the hassle. Are you prepared to take back unruly, undisciplined teenage youngsters when their owners decide they can't cope with the dogs & their coats any more? OES are nowhere near as popular as they were 20 yrs ago (thank goodness) but people will still buy a breed like OES for the wrong reasons, no matter how much you tell them that they are hard work.
Why exactly do you want to breed? You don't just need to be around when the bitch is whelping but for quite a few weeks afterwards - she may have a perfectly easy whelping & then keep losing puppies because she lies on them, she may need a caesarean which isn't cheap & she may then lose the puppies. These are all things you need to consider.
You may also buy a puppy only to find she doesn't fulfil her promise, turns out to be an awful example of the breed, can't get mated or just never produces a litter.
The only thing that's certain about breeding is that nothing is certain!

Well she should be at least 2 before you breed from her which means your dog would be 5 Have you used him at stud before ? If not 5 is a bit old to start using a dog

Can I ask Moonmaiden why you consider a dog too old at this age?   My own dog was used at stud for the first time just short of his 7th birthday, infact the litter was born on his 7th birthday.  He managed the feat with no problems and sired a litter of 14, with my own bitch.

But I do agree that keeping an entire dog & bitch together is one almighty hassle unless you have very very helpful friends/family who will have him whilst she is in 3 weeks season.

Speaking for MM it's a gamble, some are not interested, some can't workout what to do, some have hips that cause pain as they try to work out what to do, some are inept and get bitten by the bitch for their efforts, some have a lowered fertility, some will manage. In the hands of an experienced stud handler it may well be OK because the handler will 'handle' and place things where they should be and make sure no damage is done. Sure there are other reasons but in general if you wish to use a dog at stud it is best to start as soon as the dogs tests are done.

It is old for someone who has never owned a stud dog before & a lot of OES dogs are not good stud dogs & need the correct encouragement & help which a novice stud dog owner would be hard pressed to give(yes I know people who are in OES as I used to actively show my beardies alomgside a top OES person)

I presume you had been involved with breeding before using you 7 year old dog if not & you were a first time breeder/stud dog owner well done on knowing what to do & how to handle a stud dog with no previous experience. Before I had bred a litter using an outside stud I had no idea what it entailed & thought breeding came naturally to all male dogs.

I do not consider a dog too old to use at 5 but for a maiden dogs & bitch with a novice breeder with no previous experience in a breed in which reluctant studs can be a problem it could be very difficult

I would never breed from a large breed like an OES until the bitch was two to allow her to finish growing, however by thst time this dog will have lived with her for possibly four seasons & may as a lot of dogs are been also told to not sniff etc bitches then be expected to mate one-not the best training for a stud dog

It may well be this dog is already a successful stud dog being used by outside kennels in which case there will be no problem in using him at any future age

I bow to your greater knowledge of OES stud dogs & will add no further comments I'm sure you will be able to offer help to this poster when the time comes

Moonmaiden,

I don't have OES I have Large Munstelander's and yes this was my first time breeding a litter when I used my own dog on my own bitch.   I thought he complimented her and the lines (I was proved right!  - a Sh.Ch. & a RCC winner), he certainly knew what he was doing and I just crouched to hold them both as the tie went on.

In the majority of cases, keeping a dog & bitch together isn't satisfactory and not many people hit on buying the right bitch for their dog...but it does sometimes happen, I know I was one lucky individual.  But then a lot of people who own just a bitch and mate her to an outside stud don't always pick the right bitch for their dog and go with the flow........

Like I said I'm not commenting anymore as you are obviously a very skilled stud dog owner & far more competent than me when it comes to breeding so will leave you to give the advice. Thee are not many people who feel that they can supervise mating two large dogs alone like you can

BTW from my first litter came three stud book number holders & two that became successful police dogs(GSDs)in the days when GSD entries were huge & the police did not normally buy in puppies but they did mine & no I did not go for the top stud at the time but a dog whose pedigree perfectly matched my bitchs. Not too bad a record from 5 puppies not as good as yours of course.

My golly LilyMunster you were VERY lucky - or very clever! ;) It's not something I would ever recommend a novice do, I've seen too many problems occur.
Most novices struggle to keep dogs and bitches together, or rather apart when the bitch comes in to season.  They wonder why their dog won't eat and howls day and night, causing neighbours to complain about the noise!

It took considerable effort from two of us to hold two cockers spaniels whilst mating!  I would HATE to have to manage a larger dog with two people, let alone by myself.  I doubt I would be able to ensure their safety in such conditions.

Yep I agree cocker spaniels are hard enough to hold with two people, so it must have been hard work with two LARGE dogs!

I need more than one person to mate my Spanish so I'd hate to try and mate an OES on my own, I know that Ijust couldn't do it.

I'm just waiting until the time comes that someone uses my boy, I hope his character doesn't change !

Lol

As with all things concerning breeding its not certain that his character will change, but then its not certain that it won't either :D But at least you are aware of the possibilities. :)

I have been away for a couple of days so haven't been able to get back to this subject but I find what I am reading someone derogatory towards myself and totally off the subject that was originally written about.  

"I bow to your greater knowledge of OES stud dogs & will add no further comments I'm sure you will be able to offer help to this poster when the time comes".   You had one opinion about the subject, I wanted to know why you thought that about older stud dogs and added my opinion, I wasn't looking for sarcastic overtones. 

My bitches, when mated,  have been very willing to get mated to the stud - whether it be mine or an outside one.   If you need 2 people then I can suggest that maybe neither dog is a willing paticipant in the activity.  I have a friend who has mated 2 different spaniel breeds on her own and no help at all.   Dogs in the wild/latchkey dogs mate without any human supervision, so it can be done!    

Maybe man's interference with dog breeding has been to he detriment of some breeds, if they cannot mate without an army of supervision alongside them????????????????

Well you obviously know more about having stud dogs that myself. I know a couple of fairly well known OES breeders who tell me that the males can be reluctant to breed & that with two large dogs it is advised to have more than one person present at the mating.

You obviously disagree, so please tell me what happens when a sole person is involved & the bitch decides she does not want to be mated & turns on the dog, as has happened when I had a GSD stud dog, this was not a grump but an all out attack by the bitch who ended up never being mated by any dog  as she always reacted the same way. If I had been alone should I have just stood back & they them sort it out ? Get involved & get bitten ? As it happened I had help standing by & we separated them. So what would you have done-the bitch was flirting & standing until the dog got to the real business. Let the dog be attacked & put off breeding for good-what a loss he had a super character, correct breed type, clear hips(0:0=0)& he passed on as a hip improver ? I am really interested to hear of your action in such a case Or have you never experienced difficulties allowing purely unassisted natural breedings only ?

I was paying you a compliment how can that be rude ? Don't you like people saying you have more knowledge than them ?

Edited to add

Have you ever actually seen the fights that occur between latchkey dogs & bitches when the bitch isn't ready ? or there are more than one "stud"dogs involved ? Presumably these never occur ? Sorry but they do I saw one horrific fight involving not just the dog & bitch but five other "studs"that resulted in severe injuries to several of the dogs including the bitch-But hey that's nature isn't it ?

Also in the wild there is an established pecking order in which only the alpha mate & the beta & below bitches do not have heats(inhibited by the Alpha bitch secreting a hormone that inhibits them, on the rare occasion that a Beta bitch has a season fights do break out)& the bitch seeks out the dog & doesn't have a stud imposed on her too early or late

As this is obviously wandering far from the original poster's questions, I will take my "greater authority" somewhere else and try to help on another subject.   Maybe my Munsters are just good, down to earth, basic, unaltered dogs who can breed without much human help???????????   Having bred 3 litters with 14 pups in each litter from only 1 mating for the bitch...maybe that's the answer???????

I am sure my dogs could breed without 'human' help too.  I would not be prepared to risk their safety so therefore offer adequate supervision for MY piece of mind. 

I used to have a dog cocker spaniel that wouldn't show any interest what so ever in my girls  even when they were in season or any other time come to think of it...........maybe I just had a 'strange' dog................:-)  He was 3 years old when he went to live with friends, so it certainly wasn't because he was too young, maybe he felt a bit 'hen pecked' being in a group with 3 bitches.