Yesterday whilst taking Spice on a walk through our local park, I heard a little girl (aged about 4)ask her Mum if she could stroke the 'nice doggy'.Before I could say anything at all the Mum took one look at Spice and said "NO THAT'S A BITING,SNAPPY KIND OF DOG!" and she promptly dragged her child away as fast as she could,too fast I'm afraid for my brain to engage in a suitable response :o

Whilst I admire people who instil into their children the idea of not approaching any strange dog,but to ask if they could do so first,I could not help but be hurt by this woman's misguided attitude toward border collies.Spice is a very well socialised dog who from the earliest moment has been around children,giving no cause for concern to me whatsoever,she plays rough and tumble with all my Sister's five kids and with my Son's,partners little girl aged 4!she has never so much as scratched or snapped at any child.I would never though,under any circumstance,leave her with children unattended and have never done so either with her or our previous dog,who was a collie/lab cross. :)

However,whilst walking Spice later in the day with my own Mum,we were joined by a neighbour of hers who happened to be going in the same direction,toward the end of the walk she asked "how old is your dog?" I replied she's 8months now,"oh" she said,"she could soon be in season then?" "In fact she is mid-season now hence being walked on the lead", I replied.
" Well she is a credit to you,I noticed how she has walked perfectly to heel,sat at all the kerbs without need of instruction to do so and only crossed when you told her to,also she has totally ignored all the traffic passing by and even that boy on his skateboard aroused her curiosity but she ignored him,to carry on walking with you,she is a real credit not just to you but to her breed isn't she?"

My head was expanding as she spoke! and I was walking on air as we finished our walk and said our goodbyes :D

There is a need of re-education in many people,but thank god some can reach a genuine conclusion on their own!
Jacqueline

I had the same probelm on monday we where at an agricultral show, and i would say my male rottie is bomb proof as they say in the horsey world but you just never know, a little toddler came towards us and his mother was talking and he said to me can i stroke your doggy please, yes i said and merlin was sitting he was bigger than this toddler who proceeded to pat him on the shoulder, his mum looked around and just said did he ask, i nodded and she turned back to her conversation, the kid was obviously relaxed around dogs and had been taught to ask, but his granny came around the corner and litterly screamed OH GOD HE IS STROKING A ROTTIE GRAB HIM, the mother said shut up he asked and the lady said ok, the granny came up and went to grab the little one by the arm, which merlin thought as a threat and stood up and pushed her arm out the way and blocked the toddler with his body and stood giving her the rottie cool look, the mother of the boy came over and said mam you are going to make him frightened of dogs the way you behave, patted merlin and walked away with the boy.
we where then standing watching the horse jumping and a little girl came up and just threw her arms around merlins neck, he did not even flinch was to busy watching the big dogs in the ring (horses LOL)
but i said to her and this all happened within a blink of an eye you should always ask, and her mother grabbed her smacked her and said you should ask how many times not all dogs are nice what if he had bit you have you seen all the teeth in his mouth, and the lady just told you off also , the mother looked at me and said so sorry about her doing that, but she thinks all dogs are nice we have a real problem with her.
but what was so nice the amount of people that wanted cuddles off him and some people would hang back to see if he was ok with other people then would come up and ask,can i have a stroke.
we had a really nice day
Carol

I think people should always ask before clapping a strange dog.  I think most dogs are better than mine but the amount of children that run up to Copper and grab him saying "ooohhh a puppy".  Of course he's not a puppy and thankfully he's never snapped a child and he's usually very good with people (I have him muzzled outside) but he can be unpredictable.  9 times out of 10 he's great with the kids but he has been known to be spooked by people's attitudes to him.

I think the owner knows best and should be asked first if poss.  People should always teach their children to ask before touching a strange dog.  Would we love it if a stranger ran up and half strangled us or kissed us!!????

CG

My point exactly Copper Girl,
If this mother had taken the time to ask about Spice and then decided if her little girl could or could not stroke her,I would have been more than pleased :) Instead she just responded with "No that's a snappy biting dog!" without giving either me or Spice the option to respond,so now her little girl may grow up to think Border Collies are a NO GO AREA and will never ask the owner if it's o.k. to pet them :(

How can we educate these people when they have such objective ideas toward certain breeds?
Jacqueline

Prejudice is an ugly thing to see whether directed at people or dogs isnt it? Spice sounds a fantastic ambassador for BCs and this should help break down stereotypes. My dobe phobia is now cured partly by being forced to confront it at training class ( our instructor specialises in dobes) and partly by meeting well socialised, trained and handled dobermans. This week I even patted one and yes I did ask first! Mind you I was willing to change and that had most to do with it, so Mrs Snappy may not be willling to open her mind.

I've always thought border collies were well trained, friendly dogs!

What annoys me the most, is when children AREN'T taught to ask if the dog is friendly or not and come charging up to my dog shouting excitedly before I have a chance to say anything. Next thing I know, my poor dog is hiding behind my legs, tail tucked under, growling at the kid and the mother comes up and has a go at me for having a  vicious dog or gives me evils and drags the child away!

have had a similar response tonight and i must say that it upset me a little because it is the first time i have experienced this.
i was out the back of my house with my 16 week old rottie doing some heelwork training when the old dear!!! who lives a few doors down came out, she proceeded to watch alfie trotting up and down and sitting down and generally behaving very well for a baby (i was feelin vey proud of him because he was doing so well). this lady then went and burst my bubble by shouting to 'keep that thing away from me, they are aggresive' i very calmly explained that he was no-where near her and that he was under control because he was on a lead and she proceeded to give me a lecture on how aggresive rotties are and that they are always on the tv for attacking people.
i tried to explain that he wasn't a nasty dog and that he never would be because he was well socialised and was very human-orientated (the most he has ever done to her is wag his tail!!)
i am sure that i will have many more experiences like this but to be honest i found it quite upsetting that people can be so prejudiced about something they now very little about

I've noticed people tend to jump straight in and stroke dogs, which I've never understood. They don't take the time to allow the dogs to get used to this strange person who then puts their face right in front of theirs followed by attempting to get them to 'shake paws' or scrubbing the back of their napes.

Chip, the older dog, has very painful limbs and back, which means when people 'pat' him or grab his leg he growls and snaps, it hurts him and people refuse to believe me because, of course, every dog does the paw trick, no matter how painful it might be for them. Emily had a very bad experiance from a very young age and as such she is prone to fear biting, which a lot of people cannot understand. I get a lot of very young children rushing up and trying to pet her, hence the reason she's muzzled, although I know it's not her fault it would only take a serious bite and a parent who wanted something done about it to have her PTS. Once she's had several visits from you and each time you've ignored her and not tried to stroke her she gets better, she never used to stop growling at my grandad but two months down the line enjoys his company just as much as she would anyone of the 'immediate' family, though explaining the need to introduce themselves correctly to neighbours and their children can be very daunting.

Next doors toddlers constantly call her over to them, she's never been in contact with toddlers as far as we know, so to have six screaming her name and whistling must be very confusing, she's never bitten them, barked and growled but she always runs back unless they keep approaching, their parents do nothing, which annoys me a lot. We got a new fence to stop the dogs from getting into their garden and biting the children, yet even after we've said "They will bite if you do that" they keep doing it, it is especially annoying when trying to get her back inside the house to have these children calling her to them, often waving food and toys, their actions often put her a couple of steps back in the long due socialisation she needs as she hates loud noise, any loud noise creates a very fearful reaction and if she can't escape it she resorts to biting at the object of the noise, be it hoover, television or human...

But for me it extends to people assuming my dogs will get on smashingly with their fully grown, often much taller dog. If they were introduced carefully both dogs would play with theirs, but just letting your dog run straight into mine doesn't do much for either of them, even less so the little one, as stated her socialisation leaves much to be desired and a strange dog with no manners running straight at her when she is on a lead is a very stressful situation, especially when the owner follows booming about their dog being fine because they assume the only reason i'm asking them to control their dog is because it's a Rottie :(  I've always known the most wonderful Rotties, so it always makes me sad when someone feels the need to say this.

Sorry about the post but I think some of that is relevant to the original topic

totally agree with your post. when out on walks it is amazing how many dogs you see that the owners just allow to come charging at you without any attempt to recall them. i would never allow my dog to charge up to any other dog (i am just as concerned about my dog being hurt). i always get my dog back to me when i see other dogs mainly because i am aware of some peoples opinion of my breed and also because he is a puppy who is daft and thinks everyone is his friend!!! - i will then allow the other dog to approach whilst i keep my dog under control and so far this seems to have been successful.
it is a shame that people don't explain to their children that dogs aren't toys. when i had my last rottie my neighbours children used to try and pick him up and chase him round the garden when he was trying to get away from them - i wanted to throttle the little monsters but their mum used to say 'awww look they are playing with him' - i wasn't sorry when i moved!!!

maybe it would be a good idea to get more info about responsible pet ownership into schools - i always found that when i took animals into my classes and talked about them the children were eager to learn and enjoyed the time that they got to spend with the animals.

"maybe it would be a good idea to get more info about responsible pet ownership into schools"

What a good idea mrs stiggle!!!
I am hoping to pass the p.a.t. assessments with Spice,when she is a little older and I had not even thought of taking her into a local school to educate the kids into 'correct and responsible pet ownership!' We live close to many local schools, they will be one of my first 'targets' when she passes her 'tests'.
I had only thought in terms of local hospice and daycentres for the elderly plus maybe the local hospital.
Thanks so much for the idea :)
Jacqueline & Spice.

Zebedee

I can't agree more with what you say. My older dog is a rescue. I know nothing of his past, but feel that he must have been hit at some stage. He dislikes anyone, apart from the family, stroking him when standing above him (he is OK if people are sitting down). It is amazing how many adults just put their hands out to stroke him without asking if it's OK - they get a bit of a shock when he barks at them :( I try to anticipate and ask them not to - I always warn any children who come up to us - but sometimes I forget with adults who I assume are just going to talk to me. He has been like this since we got him nearly 5 years ago.

Daisy