Hi, I now have a really serious problem, My 9 year old ESS,  Megan has begun to go into fierce rages for no apparent reason. She is normally a very lovable,sweet affectionate bitch. She has always been Alpha and has never been challenged as she has a certain presence (sp). A couple of weeks ago she flew at one of my sleeping labs for no reason, no biting, just pounced and went straight back to her bed, this happened so fast. She now snarls at me when any of my other dogs come to me for cuddles, and when I am wearing my glasses her eyes shine red and I can see all the details behind her eyes, it is quite frightening. But the worst was when my daughter (26) was talking to my 5 year old lab and lifting a bowl of food, Megan flew at the lab and bit her on the face leaving a deep two inch gash. This is all totally out of character, I have had her since she was 8 weeks old. Any advice please!!!

Kay

Sounds like she may have some health issues, well worth a trip to the Vet I think, not trying to scare you, but this is the behaviour we had from a little XB we had years ago, he turned out to have a brain tumour.  Could her eyesight be deteriorating or is she getting stiff and store casuing her to feel more vulnerable?  I expect an alpha dog would find it hard to cope with health problems?
Really hope this sorts itself out and you get your sweet lovable girl back, it must be very worrying

Hayley

Health problems  may be an issue, but she was diagnosed with Mayastinia Gravis at 18months old and I was told she would maybe live till about 3 years old as this disease affects the heart muscles, I am proud to say that I have tried to give her a very normal life and she has lived 5 years longer than Edinburgh Veterinary College expected her to. She has not been speyed as any anaesthetic would also kill her, she has not had pups as ditto. She has been a fantastic foster mother to all my other pups and an older dog who was 4 when she arrived. She has only ever once been in a dog fight and that was with a border collie who attack my 3 year old lab, she went straight in to defend, thankfully she has 99% recall and came away immediately. I cannot think she feels any vulnerability as she has lived and dominated with this for 7 years.
I use the word dominated loosely. I her eyesight is still good, she was checked by vet about 3 months ago. I cant have her e-rayed for any tumours as an anaesthetic is a no go area.
I dont think she understands, because after her rages, she looks at me as if to say, I didnt really do that did I?  I'm sorry.
She is normally such a good girl, she still tops a tails my 3 year old lab, who goes to her after drinking water to have her jowls cleaned off.  This started when Megan was really ill a couple of years ago and stopped eating and drinking. I had to give her water out of my hand, Penny my black lab was only a year old at the time and went over to the water bowl, took a big mouthfull of water, went back to Megan, opened her mouth and let the water fall over her face, since then Penny has always gone to Megan after drinking water so that Megan can get a drink.

Kay

Kay,

I would take her to the vet for a complete work up from a blood sample.  If that shows nothing, than I am sorry to say, but I would have her PTS.  As others have suggested, it may be a brain tumour, they are more common in dogs than in humans.   Behaviour which is not characteristic of a dog is a very common sympton.   You do not want her injuring one of your family or your other dogs. 

Stacey

I'm sorry to say that it has all the hallmarks of a pain related or behaviour modifying illness and as Hayley says, a brain tumour would be a distinct possibility. I would certainly be talking to my vet if it happened to me.

It's so sad when the old ones start running into difficulties.

Best wishes, John

I'm so sorry you're having this problem. It's so hard when our dogs get old and something starts going wrong.
This is something I've heard of that Springers can have. You've probably heard of it too. Who knows if it's that or something else. But I do hope there's something the vet can do.....maybe some drug to calm that down. I know you said it's just occasional, but I do hope you get some answers. Let us know. I send you my best.

http://www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk/whatisrage.htm

Carrie

Many thanks for all your replies, Sorry but I am slightly emotional at the moment. I do understand that any decision I make will be for the safety of my other dogs, and for the dignity of Megan.

Carrie thanks for website info, have just had a look, and although it looks like Megan symptoms are textbook rage syndrom, the other dogs have been a lot younger and have had behavioural and leadership problems, Megan has had none of those.

Megan was the second of two ESS's and when the older one went megan was my sole companion, both dogs worked and I F/T'd Megan until she became too ill to work, then we mock worked at her own pace. When she was 5, Penny arrived, 8 week old black lab. Megan was having a phantom pregnancy and took Penny as her own. Penny is a wimp and has never challenged for Alpha.  Emma (yellow lab) was 4 when she came to me. She came from kennels where she was well loved and cared for but was so low down the pecking order that her owner thought she would be better place in a pet home, I offered to take her, she challenged Penny for Beta place and won but has never challenged for Alpha. I have never had any behavioural problems with Megan. As a pup she was so easy to train because she just wanted to please me. Yes she has always been hyper, but she is a Springer. I walk 5 miles, she runs 15.

I am sorry to go on, I just need to talk at the moment.

Anyway, will go to vet tomorrow and ask for full run of tests, whatever the outcome, my decision will be for Megan.

Thanks
Kay

i am sorry you are having to go through this right now.  it is hard for me to suggest anything to you as i don't know what kind of dog you have.  i don't know what ESS stands for, or XP, which was in a reply here. 
anyhow, i have heard this kind of rage can come from thyroid problems.  but is very common in springer spaniels.  read the link carrie put up for you. 
again, sorry. 

Thanks Elija. Megan is an ESS (English Springer Spaniel). I have read carrie's link and although very interesting, I am not sure if it applies to Megan. I have taken on board your thyroid theory tho, I hadnt thought about that. So much going through my brain at the moment. WI really just needed to talk and get some of this emotion out of my system. Will be going to vets to start tests tomorrow.
#thanks for your thoughts

Kay

well, kay, this is a great place to come and talk then.  i am sorry you are dealing with this.  i bet you have lots going on right now.  so, just let us all know what your vet says and how the tests turn out.  keep in touch.

I really don't think its Rage as such. I've seen a couple and both started in the adolescence/young adult age. I'm sure Spaniel people know far more about it than me but to me there appears to be a hereditary component in it. It does give the appearance to me of following certain lines. I'm sure from what you say that this has a medical link in there somewhere.

Best wishes, John

Thanks all for your replies, I will keep posting her progress.

Kay

Hi Kay,

I am truly sorry for the problems you are having with Megan.  It really is heartbreaking when dogs get ill or old and they no longer act like their true selves.  It is no different for people and I trust you will do what's best for Megan.

Stacey

If a dog is unable to handle an anaesthetic, could they be sedated or does it amount to the same thing, my Lab X was sedated for XRays and blood tests
(ESS stands for English Springer Spaniel I believe)

I'm so sorry to hear about your problem.

I tend to agree that there is some underlying medical component here, and definitely a chat with a good vet is in order :)

Sometimes a dog's behaviour can change due to medical problems that can be sorted out....fingers crossed! There was a girl on another forum for example, whose dog was attacking only one of her other dogs, and that was found out to be a medical problem....for the life of me i can't remember what, it may have been a thyroid problem, but anyway the dog received medical treatment and now is back to normal :)

Best wishes
Lindsay
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Kayc so sorry to hear about your poor girl, sounds to me like there is pain there somewhere :-(  I know as I am sure we all do that there have been times when we have been ill and have had no patience ...and snaped at people for the least little thing. How dreadfull it must be if you are a dog and in pain...and can't express your feelings ...and you don't understand what is happening..it is almost as if she is saying "I am hurting and need you to give all your time and love to me not the others" I do hope the vet can help..perhaps there is some medication?

I hope that you can identify the cause of the problem; I agree with the others that cocker spaniel "rage" syndrome is nothing to do with your particular English Springer Spaniel; this is an entirely different condition.

Good luck during this traumatic time.

Thanks to all of you for your support, this has been a really bad time for Megan and me. I am sorry to tell you that Megan did have a brain tumour and has now gone to sleep for the last time. She fell asleep in my arms and I miss her so much. She gave me the best 9 years of my life.

Kay

I'm sorry to hear that. :( You know you have done the right thing, because it was clearly causing her suffering. Sleep well Megan.

Kay I am so very sorry..I had an odd feeling about Megan (see my post 31st) isn't that strange.
Each time I lose a dog I tell myself how much poorer my life would have been had it not been there.. even though we may have only shared a few years together..and I know there will be others..each one special and unique..to enrich my life and to be my special friend..Thinking of you....

Thinking of you {{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}  Over the Rainbow Bridge these worries no longer exist - she'll be waiting for you, when the time is right for you to join her.

Really sorry to hear your news Kay, I have been watching this post hoping to see anything other than that.  At least Megan is at peace now, you gave her love to the end, no dog can ask for more than that....xxx

Oh Kay, Im so sorry for your loss. Glad you were with her when she passed peacefully on. In time I hope your 9 years of happy memories will be a comfort to you. Best wishes to you and your dogs.

I'm so very sorry :(

I hope it's comforting that she passed away in peace and in your arms......

Best wishes
Lindsay
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I will not post on here again, Just a big thank you to you all for your comfort and support. Megan is at peace now, my peace will come in time. Thank you John for the poem in Rainbow Bridge. When the tears stop I will read it properly.

Kay and Megan

I am so sorry. I know there's nothing to say that will help. Only time will ease your pain. And I do wish you peace.

Carrie

I am so sorry for your loss, I and probably many others on the forum, have been in exactly the same position and can empathise with you.  She will always be in your heart.

Best Wishes.

Kayc,

I know you said you wouldn't post here anymore, but just in case you've popped in to read, I wanted to ask how you're feeling....if things are feeling any better for you....just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and your sad loss and sending you positive vibes.

Carrie

Hi Carrie, thanks for you thoughts, things are still pretty bad, although I have the pups and two older dogs, Megan was such a large part of my life. We were together for 5 years before Penny and Emma came along and she had been with me through thick & thin. She came to work with me and slept under my desk all day. She slept on the bed with me. Basically we were together 24 hours a day for nine years. Tonight though, I changed my walking route with the pups and went up a private road, (I live on a country estate), and this took me down the most beautiful copse and down to the river where an otter jumped out of the water. I know it sounds silly but I thought that if this is what Rainbow Bridge is like then Megan will be loving every minute of it. Things can only get better. Thank you Carrie.

Kay

We never forget them Kay but it does get easier. I'd have every one of my lot back given a choice, they are always in my thoughts and I love them all.

Love, John

{ I know it sounds silly but I thought that if this is what Rainbow Bridge is like then Megan will be loving every minute of it. Things can only get better. }

It doesn't sound silly at all. Places like that can get you in touch with all that is meaningful and important. I know....I live in such a place. It can give you a chance to think and get in touch with your spirit. (Now that sounds silly doesn't it) But, I know how you feel about your dog. It's something we all have to go through or have gone through. Like, John, I remember all my dogs and miss them, but the sharpness of the pain will ease up with time.

I think the place you described could surely be what Rainbow Bridge is like and maybe you being in this pretty place gave you back a connection to hang onto with Megan and a reminder that what is in your head and heart (memories) will keep her with you in a different but special way. Maybe you were meant to happen on this lovely place.

Carrie

Carrie, I have lived here for nearly 3 years and this place is literally 10mins walk from my front door. I never knew it existed as I have always stayed on my own side of the river. I stood and watched the otter playing in the river for about 30seconds until it realised I was there, and although we have a lot of otters around here this is the first time I have seen one. Yes, I would like to think that this would be Megans Rainbow Bridge.

Kay

It sounds lovely. And how neat to see an otter play. It IS amazing that it's so close and yet you've just discovered it. What good timing. I have a feeling it will be your special place to go and think and take in some peace.

Carrie

Kay
    At the risk of sounding really soppy maybe Megan took you there.
                                                                            Anne

I am a soppy person Anne, maybe she did!!!

Kay

Megan came home to me today, with a beautiful card and a little pink rose. I am not sure yet where her final resting place will be as she didnt really have a special place, everywhere I took her she thought was the best place ever. I feel much better now. Thanks to you all.

Kay

My dogs didn't have a special place either Kay (and they always say the best place to bury a dog is in your heart.... :) ) I still have their ashes and maybe we will be scattered together at some stage.

Take care

Lindsay
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