My friend's 7 year old border collie bitch had a fit today. She was out jogging with her when the dog just keeled over and had a full blown seizure. Afterwards however my friend said she was fine, just a bit clingy. She took the dog to the vets and he seemed baffled, as he said it is unusual for fits to occur during exercise. He took blood and is going to do some liver function tests e.t.c. She was a previously fit dog. A couple of months ago she had her rabies jab for a pet passport. Then a week or so ago they thought she may have had a stroke as her mouth was drooping on one side and she was excessively drooling on that side, and walked slightly to that side. After visiting the vet she thought it was a sinus infection and gave her some tablets. Has anyone had any experience of this sort of thing? Can epilepsy develop at 7 years of age?

It is unlikely to be 'ordinary' epilepsy at that age. Idiopathic (no known cause) epilepsy generally starts between 1 and 4 years of age, and the fits almost always occur when the animal is asleep or resting. The likelihood with this collie is that there is something else going on to cause the fits. I hope they get to the bottom of it.

Its all a bit of a worry. I thought 7 was too old for the start of epilepsy, but it seems young for something like a stroke. I suppose things can happen at all ages though.

Hi here is a link that may give your friend and her vet some things to think about .I am not saying that this is what the BC concerned has but may be worth looking into here Gillian

We often see the same problem usually with Springer Spanials on the beating line Gillian. They literaly run till they drop. Some can be so "Driven" they just cannot be slowed down. It's usually worst at the start of the season when the dogs might not be quite as fit as later. It is actually quite common!

Best wishes, John

Hi John, yes it is quite common :) Gillian

Thats really interesting.
The vet first thought it was diabetes because her glucose levels were low in the first blood test, so he tested her again the following day but the y were fine. Then in the evening she went outside ran across the garden and within a minute she was fitting again. It only lasted for 30 seconds, so the vet says they aren't bad fits but he now thinks it is epilepsy, and is going to give her some medication tablets tommorrow. She hasn't fitted today, although the vet advised no exercise at the moment and then once the tablets have been started gentle lead walks. (which is not going to do her weight any good!) I saw her today and she seemed a little lethargic and at times walked lopsided. It was almost like she was leaning at an angle.
Has anyone had any experience of epilepsy in dogs (I believe it is quite common) that could advise my friend what to expect. With medication will her life return to normal?

There are lots of sites about canine epilepsy if you google, which should tell you all you need to know (and more!) For example this site seems helpful. If it is indeed epilepsy this dog has, it is showing itself in an unusual way.

I must admit, i'm no professional, but it doesn't quite all add up to me. I'm a bit worried (stupid really its not my dog, but i still care) that he is just handing out pills without really getting to the bottom of the cause. I would've thought they would do some kind of a scan or something? (Or is that only humans), just to rule out brain tumours and the like. She has only had two minor fits according to the info on the net, which doesn't neccessarily mean epilepsy apparently. What if it is just stress induced or something, and may not happen again without medication anyway, surely if medication has already been started you have no way of knowing if it was just a once off thing. Its certainly an expensive business so far though, the vets bills are already over £100, not including the new pills, (not that money is more important than a dogs welfare though!) Her parents are on holiday at the moment and they have no idea what is going on, its going to be a bit of a homecoming.

There are a number of possibilities but it's getting late now and poor old men like me need out beauty sleep. ;) I'll put a post on here tomorrow.

Best wishes, John

Diabetes is as the vet said, a possibility. Either hyperglycaemia or hypoglycaemia  could result in the dog loosing consciousness. But in my experience a person would notice something wrong before the dog ever got to this stage. Excessive drinking is often a sign. In the case of my Katy there was an obvious problem, heavy drinking, listlessness, lack of go, a bloated appearance caused by the heavy drinking all led to at trip to the vets where the diabetes was confirmed.

There is an epileptic like complaint called "Canine epileptoid cramping syndrome" but this does not sound like that. From what you say there seems to be a "Trigger" of exercise which I have not heard of with this. Also it is something which is known in Border Terriers and Labradors but I've not heard it in other breeds.

Epilepsy is the obvious one. I have Dr Phyllis Croft's book in front of me which is a wonderful guide to this. Primary or Idiopathic Epilepsy is the usual one found early in young adult dogs. Basically it is a lowering of the threshold whereby a fit is possible. Not the right age group for you!

Epilepsy can be brought about at any age by a number of possibilities and it is one of these which may be affecting this dog. Amongst them are, Trauma (a knock on the head such as running into a wall!!) Anoxia (not really likely I would have thought), Effects of diet (This was something which happened many years ago and really no longer applies), Poisons, (In most cases the owner would have noticed something but it is worth discussing with her),  reaction to vaccines, (Has the dog had its jabs recently?), Encephalitis, Tumours and Cerebro-Vascular disease, Hyperventilation (As exercise is linked in this case I would have thought hyperventilating would be a symptom of something else rather than the cause.) And lastly heart disease (possibly and erratic heart beat. Is there any coughing?)

This is a few possibilities for you to think about. When a thing happens just once you think it could be some odd-ball thing which will go away but the fact that this has happened again pushes it up the league into an important problem and one which needs sorting before too long.

Best wishes, John

Thanks for your advice.
Its all very baffling really isn't it. She is still having regular fits once or twice daily minimum. They are only minor but bad enough. They have noticed that the trigger definately seems to be exercise, but usually when she has been quiet and then suddenly exerts herself. She is excessively tired. (Although this can be an after effect of the tablets.) She is leaning to the right nearly all the time and cannot shut her right eye at all, and the pupil is dilated. She is eating and drinking as normal. (There are no other symptoms really). Regarding vaccinations, she is due her annual jabs soon so its not that, but she had her first rabies jab for a pet a month and a half ago. Her symptoms started exactly a month afterwards, just before she was due to go back for the blood test to check it worked. Apparently they have done some research on the web and it can cause some nasty effects such as swelling on the brain, which to me would make more sense than epilepsy. However the vet can not say either way. He has now suggested a specialist and scans to see what is going on. Its a real puzzle though.

I do hope your friend's dog will be diagnosed and some treatment found. It sure sounds like a central nervous system problem to me....maybe the rabies vaccine. Maybe a previous head injury. That often brings about epilepsy. Give her my best wishes.

Carrie

The Rabies injection seems to be rather a coincidence, worth following up. Trouble is, some vets appear to stick their heads in the sand over things which could possibly be laid at their door fearing some sort of action by the owner.

The pulled eye sounds almost after the style of vestibular syndrome??

Is your friend sure there has been no knock on the head? It sounds more and more like a brain thing to me. I don't like to say this but I'm starting to think along the lines of possibly a brain tumour.

Is it possibly time to ask for a referral to your nearest Vet College for specialist help?

Regards, John

Hi Tried to reply but pc probs.
Try contacting the Phyllis Croft Foundation, : Phyllis Croft Foundation for Canine Epilepsy tel 01277 630145
you have to join to get a personal opinion I think but only about £8/10 a yr. Definately mention the rabies vax, it`s known to cause encephalitis.
http://www.gsdhelpline.com/cliffe.htm info about P. Croft Foundation
Scroll down the link below to diseases that can cause/mimic epilepsy etc.
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/tablecontents.htm

Christine, Spain.