Question for those of you who own breeds that have tail designs such as the Alaskan Malaumute etc; if the tail does not "curl" properly is it a "design fault" like floppy eared GSDs and if so does it get marked down in the ring and/or is there anything you can do about it.

Just curious as I saw many types at All About Dogs recently and several individuals of several breeds did not exhibit the "desired" tail carriage.

regards

Can only talk for my own breed, Elkhounds, and yes, it does matter. In our breed the outline should conform to the standard and to do this, the ears should be pricked (not a problem) and the tail should be
>> Strong, set on high; thickly coated without plume: tightly curled, preferably over the centre line of the back. <<
in fact, a good many dogs who's tails fall to one side or the other are made up and also those with a less than desirable amount of tight curl and those with short tails. It is how ever the 'feel of the hound' that the judge looks at and tape measures and curl counting is not undertaken. If it looks like an Elkhound then it is, tails are forgiven for sagging in the old and if worried, the young, providing that the judge can see the correct outline at some time during their assessment, and most hounds lift the tail & ears to the correct place when moving. Elkhounds drop their ears in greeting, and they consider judges and everyone else as worthy of a greeting.

Thank you, I was not sure, in my ignorance of these breeds, whether they actually "relaxed" tails at all similar to dogs with long tails who may naturally carry them low but have them raised like radio masts if excited etc.

Tks for reply.

h but the Elkhound should have a tightly curled tail, which only goes down if tired or unhappy, whereas the Siberian generally only has tail over th4e back when moving.  The Malamute is somewhat inbetween.  Some breeds are supposed to have a single curls, adn some are prefered with a tight or even double curl (Basenji, Elkhound) in fact too tight a curl is a fault in a Finnish Spitz, but tail faults have to be weighted up wtih the rest.  Also tail curls often tighten with maturity, and loosen with old age.

Oh blimey Brainless! :D

Now I am completely confused :D

Only as confusing as ear carriage :D :D :D

Pricked, semi pricked level with eyes, right atop the head, outside edges vertical, etc etc etc!

Pomeranian's tails should be straight over the back with no twists or going over to the side.   If your dogs tail did do either of the latter then unfortunately quite a few points would be taken away from the dog at shows!!

Perrodeagua, what country are you in please, in the UK we don't work to points so I guess you are speaking from somewhere else.

Think in general the way a dog/hound carries it's self is what counts most, that includes ears, tails and head carriage, the foot placing and the silhouette the exhibit makes when stood for presentation. It is not assessed as individual bits and pieces, the dog either looks right or it doesn't, it is the overall look that gives the balance of the animal and if anything is wrong the exhibit is not top quality. The amount the fault 'spoils' the dog depends on the area of the fault and how much it distracts from the dog being an example that fulfils the standard.

On some dogs one or more of these items has to be correct as it is an essential part of the breed, the Spitz breeds all carry their tails over the back in some way or the other and therefore it is important that it is carried in the way appropriate to that breed, an Elkhound should not carry it's tail like a Finnish Spitz or a Finnish Spitz like a Siberian, it is important when it comes to judging that the exhibit in front of you looks like the breed it is supposed to be and with the spitz breeds in particular the tail is an important and noticeable part of that breeds look.

As a matter of interest Elkhounds can't hold the tail completely straight the latter 1/3 never straightens out completely, although it does start to relax when they get old. When young the tail just rocks when wagged and as the hound ages so the tail relaxes and the wag becomes more and more noticeable.

With my 2 breeds the tail/tailset are important parts of the standard, but in completely different ways!  With the Am . Cockers, the required tail set and carriage are both important, the tails has to come straight off the back, not low down, and must be carried at a slighlty"up" angle, not terrier tails, though!  If it is carried low it detracts from the "above all they must be merry" description.  The tails are natrually carried like this, apart from when miserable/nervous, when they may drop.  So, important as part of the whole picture.  However, the pug "twist" is even more important - a double twist is desirable, but at least a singel twist is needed, or forget showing that pug! ;).  If a pug is sad or unsure it will drop its twist, I have never seen a pug be placed who is not showing the desired tight curl - it is a sort of unwirtten pug showing rule.

bye Gwen

That is as you say Gwen, a pug with a straight tail is not a pug, well not a pug that fulfils the pug standard.

I'm from the UK and I know that we don't work on a point system but if a Pom had a curly tail or one that went over the side it would definitely, or should definitely be penalised for it, they have to go straight over the back almost touching the head when in a stand.

In Malamutes the tail should be Moderately high set, following line of spine at start then curving gently upwards. At rest may hang straight down. Well furred and carried over back when dog is working, not tightly curled to rest on back, nor short furred and carried like a fox brush, but giving appearance of a waving plume. Incorrect tail carriage will be marked down but it does not affect the dog as much as poor confirmation and thus will not affect the ability of the dog to do what it was bred to do, therefore it is not looked on quite so badly as other faults.

Thank you; I suppose that you need to "get your eye in" so to speak to be able to intepret the standard correctly.  I know nothing about malamutes etc so I am grateful for your time.

Swedish Vallhunds have a range of tail carriages
< The Spitz tail - a tightly carried curl over the back
< The loose Spitz tail - a tail carried in a C shape
< The long tail - over 4 in and of any shape and carriage
< The Stub tail - up to 4 in and ideally carried no higher than the line of the back
< The Natural Bob - no discernable tail
< The Kup - the docked tail

But in Valls, tail carriage (correct me if I'm wrong here Polipetl) :) is not to be judged over body conformation and especially character.  Though everyone has different tastes in tail carriage, I personally prefer a dog with a tight Spitz tail.

                                                                                                                                   Kate

Not according to the UK standard, docked not exceeding 4" when adult. Carried horizontally or slightly downward. may be raised at attention but never higher than the level of the back. Undocked, carried horizontally or slightly downwards May be raised at attention but never higher than the level of the back In overall balance with the rest of the dog.

Jackie I assume you are speaking of Valls?
 
          http://www.swedishvallhund.ws/UKCstandard.htm

You have Valls as well, or did you just go and check up on me.  ;) :D

Jackie is correct for the UK
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/discoverdogs/pastoral/p874.htm
Most of us who own Spitz breeds are interested in all Spitz breeds.
Norwegian Buhunds are another who should always have their tails over their backs - a Buhund with its tail down is a sorry sight!!

Thought so, I saw that one too.  Sorry Jackie, didn't mean to be sarky or to offend you and Anwen.  Guess I'm still a don't know nothin novice. (sigh)  Will now print off all Vall standards and memorize them (I did that with Gordons).

                                                                                                                                  Kate

Border Collies  - The Tail - moderately long, the bone reaching at least to hock, set on low, well furnished and with an upward swirl towards the end, completing graceful contour and balance of dog. Tail may be raised in excitement, never carried over back.

Keeping the length of tail is a problem in the breed at the moment, the NZ and Austrailian lines tend to be shorter in the tail than the English lines.

Keeping it down is also a problem, but that's another story. :rolleyes: :O

Sandra

;) Tell me about it Sandra.Gillian

Have only just got round to checking through the boards so sorry if this is very late!

The UK tail standard is currently under discussion by the KC.  The wording submitted by the Vallhund Society was not accepted by the KC who set the standard as Jackie has written, however, this has been appealled as the majority of those vallhunds with a full tail carry them curled over their back, rather than like a cardigan corgi, which is how the KC have worded it.  Some judges have penalised dogs with tails going over their topline - which all seem to do on the move even if at rest they are held down.  This is a spitz breed so should have a spitz tail!!!

The 4 inch rule is to do with docked tails - ie they should be docked (or naturally bobbed) at under 4 inches.  But even those with short tails do stick up.

The Swedish breed standard (which is my personal opinion should given greater authority as this is the breed's mother country) allows for any type of tail carriage providing that the set is correct - ie it comes of a slightly sloping croup.

KateL is in Switzerland which of course will use the FCI standard which is not the same as the UK one.  The USA and Australian breed standards are also quite different from the UK one.

Kate