Hi all,

i would just like some advise about hip scores... what is considered too high for breeding.  A freind has just bought a puppie and has found out that the dame hip score is 46/46.. the sire is 4/6.  I don't know a lot about the subject but this seems very high.. how do you feel the puppie will be affected?

what breed of dog, as different breeds have different scores, but the score you said seems a bit high, but then again many people buy from hip scored parents that are low and the dog they bought can get HD, there is no guarantee that any pups from low hip scored parents will end up with good hips.
I know this from bitter experiance.
Carol

that is a very high score indeed! what breed???

DON'T BREED! This is an extremely high score and apart from the implications for the puppies it could very easily turn the bitch into a cripple. She has server hip dysplacier.

Apart from this I would be very careful about exercise. With care she may well live out a reasonable life but without she will almost certainly not.

Sorry if that sounds scary but she is at serious risk.

Regards, John

As the mother has such a high score (it couldnt be much worse!) it may be worth getting the pup x-rayed as soon as the vet will allow. Although, you wont be be able to score the result, the vet should be able to tell if severe displasia is present. In that way the owner can modify the exercise the pup gets BEFORE problems set in. On a positive note, you would also be able to tell if the hips look normal and then be confident in treating the pup in a more usual way.

For about £100, your friend could buy either peace of mind or enable her to proactively avoid making bad hips much worse.

I bred a lab bitch that I kept for myself that had a rather peculiar movement. Given that I train my dogs as gundogs, I didnt want to put the time and effort into training a pup if its hips were going to be very poor, or put physical stress on the pup by training her fairly hard. For this reason I had her x-rayed at 6 months. The result was that she had hips that appeared very good on the X-ray and I was able to start her training with confidence. (She actually ended up as 6/4 with no individiual score of more than 2 when I had her scored at 12 months)    

A score of 92 is almost off the scale and I am suprised that the bitch could manage to carry a litter without pain. What was the owner of the sire thinking of allowing him to service a bitch with such a serious problem.

If the owner gets the puppy insured NOW, before mentioning it to the Vet, any treatment should be covered, shouldn't it folks??!!

Providing it is one of the few companies that cover a dog for life and with no limit on the amount.

If that score is correct then it is too high whatever the breed.  The Worst one it could be would be 53/53 and that is not much lower, even a total of 46 would be too high in even breeds with few good scores.

I would advise her to have the pup insured up to the hilt and to be very sensible regarding excersise whicle it is growing, slow and steady.  Also studies have shown that large amounts of Vitamin C given to pups from litters in a study from dysplastic parents hshowed better hips when checked than a control group.

I cannot understand this mentality.

1/ Why have a bitch hip-scored if you are going to breed her whatever the score? At least if the owner had bred her without scoring, the excuse that they did not know that she had high hips (who's not heard this one used!) would have been valid. To score her and still breed is negligent.

This is as bad as a bitch that I know who had her elbows scored and the score was returned as a 3. She was bred from anyway, so why bother to score if you are going to ignore the result?

2/ What was the stud-dog owner thinking of? His dog may have a low hip-score, but in allowing his dog to be used on a bitch with such a high score, he is morally as, or if not more, guilty than the bitch owner. His excuse will probably be "I let her use my low score dog, because if I didn't, she would have used and untested dog which could have been worse" This is the age-old justification to allow poor quality bitches to be serviced by a quality stud-dog. The real meaning of the sentence is "If I did not let her use my dog, I would have lost a stud fee".

Personally speaking, if your friend has purchased a puppy without having the hip scores explained (I guess this is the case or she would have never purchased the puppy?) she has a case to start litigation to compensate for the financial and emotional loss.
The only way to hit 'breeders' like this is to do it through their wallet.

snomaes

I've recently had a litter of labradors. Virtually all of the puppy buyers asked whether the parents hips were scored. My answer is always "Yes, do you know how the scores work?." I like to make sure that they are actually going to understand the answer that I'm going to give.

Virtually without exception the answer is a slightly embarrassed "No"!

Seems as though most people know they've got to ask the question, but unfortunately don't know what the answer should be!

Think we must all just keep trying to let people know, the fact that they know that good breeders should test is a big step forward and all we need to do now is get them to ask to see the certificate and to understand what it is they are looking at, but never mind one step at a time.

I always give my new puppy owners the BVA dog owners leaflets that explain Hip Scoring and Eye testing, and also take pains to explain what they mean.

Especially that there id no guarantee that the pup may not develop[ a condition.  Especially as regards eyes which only show parents to be unaffected, but this can't show if they are carriers.

yes I agree having a pup whos kneecaps dissolved at 4 months i know no insurance company will touch you with a barg pole tell the owners to get pup insured and then go to the vets . belive me paying insurance will be alot cheaper then paying for the treatment if anything happens . plus is peace of mind knowing you can offer all treatment needed , to replace the kneecaps it would have been a couple grand each leg But the vet said it wouldent be sucessful for our dog at least with insurance you can try .the pup may be healthy but you never know :)