Hello I am in a bit of dilemma and I would like your advice as here I hope to get impartial point af views both breeder and purchasers.

Went to see this lovely puppy SBT. I was very impressed by the mother well behaved temperament, parents doe not have eye test, but I know that this is only a (good) KC reccomendation and not everyone does it, and the lady advised me that there are no Cataract problems in her breedline. I accepted this with the intent to have her checked to the vet once I got her and the full eye test a 1 year old. The parents and pup is KC registered.

Gave her deposit of £100, and waved goodbye to my little baby.

This was a couple of weeks ago.

Sent her a few e-mails after that and got a slow reply due to carpet fitters.. then asked for pictures and although I received many messages from the breeder saying the the pics were sent I never actually received them until after a few days of trying. But this may be something really silly like PC problems.

Anyway got the pictures and are a bit disappointed as the are not clear in the meaning that one I cannot see the face because she is scratching her back, another she is hiding behind her mother, to be honest a few more did show the full face but not frontal and not really close up.
Anyway it is difficult to take pictures to an energetic puppy so it did not concern me much apart from being sad of not being able to see my baby properly.

Now I was supposed to pick up the puppy tomorrow when she would be 6 weeks and 4 days and this last e-mail from the breeder not only concerned me to a great deal it also caused an argument with my husband as he reckons I should not purchase this dog because of this content of the e-mail:

"She's growing really well, she's still having a bit of milk from mum but she's also eating winalot puppy food morning and night and puppy biscuits at luchtime, basically they are all fed together but I would suggest that you feed her three times a day and let her eat her fill, if she seems hungry give her a bit more. When she's a bit older (around three months) I would leave biscuits available at all times and fresh water and give her one or two meat meals a day. "

I believe that she is wrong in being prepared in letting her go if the pup is not only so young but obviously not ready since she is still having a bit of milk from mum. Then she should not be on 3 meals at 6 weeks and definitely not 1 or 2 meals at 3 months!!!

"Obviously the amount she needs will also depend on the exercise she's getting! " Should pups not be exercised?

Now I really like this pup but this e-mail caused me great concern which I could only raise now since this is when I got the e-mail (well yesterday) a big argument and debate with my husband who knows a bit more than me so I pulled out of the sale.

I am really sorry for this but if I could have helped it I wouldn't have done so. I asked my refund back (I was never told that it is non refundable by the way) and also offered the breeder the opportunity to deduct me the cost of sending me the money and any re-advertising fees. This is because I understand the breeder predicament and this is so not me and I genuinily feel embarassed about this whole issue but cannot afford to loose the whole £100.00

Can you please advice me what would be the best resolution to this issue?

I look forward to your replies, Regards

If it's any help, my bitch will give her pups the odd 'comfort suck' for several weeks after they are weaned and eating 5 'proper' meals a day. It is good that the bitch is still with her pups.

I agree though that 3 meals a day isn't enough for a small pup - at 7 weeks I would certainly expect them to have at least 4.

6 weeks 4 days seems a bit early to let pups go to me, didnt pick my lab up until he was 8 weeks old and i know some breeders dont let there pups go until they are 12 weeks old,
no pup should not be doing much exercise at that age, and pup should be on 4 meals a day.

Heidi

From what you describe, I too would have conserns that this litter is not being reared the best way. I'm not in SBT so I don't know what goes in the breed, but 6 weeks is very young, and the feeding regeime is inadequate. Eye testing is most certainly of paramount importance, and anyone who says their line is 100% clear, when no DNA test is available, is fooling themselves and puppy buyers too. Forget the £100, don't touch this puppy with a bargepole.
Good luck in your search for a healthy, well reared, well fed puppy. Ask more questions and check back with us here at Champdogs if you're not sure.
Dawn R.

Sounds a bit like the breeder is trying to get rid of the pups early :-( ..not a good sign. IMHO Puppy is too young to leave the litter (except for emergency reasons) it needs to be socialised within the litter, removing it early from the dam can cause behaviour problems later on. Puppy needs at least 4 meals a day, and I do not agree with leaving food down all the time. :-( Have you told the breeder of your concerns? Not wishing to be rude but it  sounds like she does not know much about puppies?

I think that you are probably wise to pull out of this purchase BUT you must be prepared to loose your deposit - most deposits are only returned in case of sickness/death of puppy or something like that.    Did you not receive a receipt for your deposit?   If so, it should state on what terms the deposit has been taken.

Regards
Margot

If you are concerned that the puppy will be too young to take from its mother, ask the breeder to hold onto it for a week or so longer for you. If she is a decent breeder she should have no objections to this.  When you have it at home, you can feed it however many meals you feel is correct for your puppy.

I would have thought the parents should have been eye tested, but as you say, not everyone does it (right or wrong).  If you were happy with the puppy, etc before the email, then I don't quite see why you pulled out without discussing your concerns with the breeder first.  She does say leave biscuits down all the time so the puppy could eat when it likes (again rightly or wrongly), so it wouldn't be hungry.  I got my dog when she was just a day or two younger than 7 weeks and we have never looked back - she will be 3 in October and she has no problems. Also, the puppies my sister has kept from her recent litter still fed from Mum occasionally at 9 weeks, so thats no real guideline.

If you do pull out, then I feel you should expect to lose your deposit (although it is a little high I feel) as that is why it was taken.

Fiona

I don't know if you have seen the post from a breeder in a similar position (if not the same) as the breeder you are speaking of.

I agree pup should stay with mom till at least 7-8 weeks...I too left puppy food out all day and took away at 7 pm (I free fed), but water was left around the clock. I always made sure the food bowl was never empty through the day. I never sold any of my pups before 7 weeks and they had to be on dry puppy food and eating good.

Deposits well those were non refundable, I would of talked my concerns over with the breeder before pulling out....

As for tests I would not purchase a puppy from any breeder if they did not do the proper tests on their breed, you can not be sure if they are not carrying anything unless they are tested before they are bred. Lets say your puppy has the eye problem which could of been prevented if this breeder had her dog and bitch tested in the first place. I would expect a dog/bitch not to be tested if they were not registered then yes you are taking your chance.

I agree with the other reply if you were happy with the puppy in the start till this e-mail why not ask them to hold the puppy till its 7-8 weeks :)

I even held onto a puppy for 12 weeks do to people vacationing, not a problem just ment I gotta have a puppy bouncing around even longer :D which was nice

May be worth checking the code of ethics on the KC site as I can't remember them and with the breed club also.

Thing is you will probably not get anything back.. should have went with your gutt instinct in the first place sadly
.

Not sure if you are connected with the other post but the answer is simple really. You obviously liked the puppy and its conditions and breeder enough in the first place to put a deposit down if not why did you do so, the bit about photographs is immaterial. Go back to the breeder and tell her you think the puppy is too young to leave the dam and request she keeps it longer. As another poster said when you get it home you can feed it as many meals as you like!

Not sure if you are connected with the other post but the answer is simple really. You obviously liked the puppy and its conditions and breeder enough in the first place to put a deposit down if not why did you do so, the bit about photographs is immaterial. If you were concerned about eye testing why did you decide to leave a deposit and purchase the puppy? If you genuinely want the puppy go back to the breeder and tell her you think the puppy is too young to leave the dam and request she keeps it longer. As another poster said when you get it home you can feed it as many meals as you like. If you have changed your mind for other reasons be honest about it and tell the breeder!

It's obvious that this post is connected with the other:  I hope you are both talking to each other rather than posting here - hope you can work it out between you. :D

Margot

Lokis Mum.. it seems pretty certain that is so and they should obviously be talking to each other but.... the stories differ slighty so someone has got their 'facts wrong' and it is not always easy to admit this ;-)

I can understand the initial poster might not agree with some of the ethics etc that the breeder holds with re. feeding , age to rehome pups etc, but i have been in a similar situation myself and knew that the puppy would have a fantastic life with us, so still went ahead and brought him home.some breeders are inexperienced rather than downright callous, but if you know you can give the pup a good home and have  set your heart on it i would still go for it unless the pup looks ill or anything!!We picked our staffy pup up on thurs night, he was very skinnyfor a staffy!!I commented on it to the breeder and she said she didn't like fat dogs!since then he has been having four meals a day and looks like a different dog, i know we can make up for his bad start in life and i bet you  could too.:)

<parents doe not have eye test, but I know that this is only a (good) KC reccomendation and not everyone does it, and the lady advised me that there are no Cataract problems in her breedline.>

How does she know this if she does not test, is she psycic?

<Now I was supposed to pick up the puppy tomorrow when she would be 6 weeks and 4 days>

A perfectly reasonable age for a puppy to go to it's new home. Ours all start to leave at 6.5 weeks IF the owners are at home full time for the first week or so.

<I believe that she is wrong in being prepared in letting her go if the pup is not only so young but obviously not ready since she is still having a bit of milk from mum. >

This can happen with puppies up to 12 weeks+ if they are with a particularly maternal mother. It is a comfort thing, they do not NEED the milk.

<basically they are all fed together but I would suggest that you feed her three times a day and let her eat her fill>

As others have said, 4 meals a day is more normal at this age. However, you can soon add another meal when you get her, it's not a major problem.

<Now I really like this pup but this e-mail caused me great concern which I could only raise now since this is when I got the e-mail (well yesterday) a big argument and debate with my husband who knows a bit more than me so I pulled out of the sale.>

The only thing in this message that would have concerned me enough to not have a puppy is the fact that the parents have not had all the routine health checks. However, you knew this when you placed the deposit, so it should not be grounds for cancellation.

It seems to me like you have got cold-feet and want to pull out and are looking for a justification. Personally I think that you should forfeit all or part of the deposit if you wish to pull out.
A deposit is given for two reasons, 1) to reassure the breeder that you are serious about having a puppy and 2) to reassure YOU that there is a puppy reserved for you.

The breeder seems to have kept her side of the arrangement, so why should she return the deposit? Perhaps this will make sure that if you go somewhere else for a puppy, you ask all the relevant questions PRIOR to placing a deposit. This way everyone knows the conditions involved and should be happy to proceed with the sale.
Everyone has different ways of raising a puppy and judgement should not be made without knowing the full facts. I cannot see anything in this post (with the exception of the health check, which you were already aware of and had obviously accepted) that says this breeder has done anything wrong?

snomaes.

Hello everyone,

thank you for all your replies, they have been a great help. I have taken some time, it has ruined my whole week-end there is nothing else I could think about.

Yes the other post is the breeder, funny how we have discussed the same topic here.

Anyway as you would have read there I have decided to go for the pup anyway,  but suggested that she is fed more frequently and to wait until she is older and completely off her mum. Unfortunately the breeder has told me that she is concerned that I might change my mind again and that she is not prepared to let her puppy go to someone who does not really want her. It is understandable since I gave her mixed feelings although they were due to my concern for the pup health, that I assume is positive thing.

I really do not know what further step to take and if any. Good thing is that I got so much suppport here and also had the opportunity to see both side of the coins, from breeders and owners feedback.

Thank you and regards,
Dogfairy

If the breeder did not state at the time of handing over the £100 that the deposit was non refundable then it should be returned IN FULL and without question.

Lara x

hi Dogfairy, I suspected that you would have a change of heart, and really feel for you that the breeder had decided this.However, having had a puppy buyer let me down in the past i can understand where she is coming from now.It's a shame cos I think you would have been able to give her a good home, but the breeder obviously can't afford to be let down again.I think there was a lack of communication between both parties here which sadly had resulted in you losing out on your pup!!Good luck in your search for a new one!!:)

I believe that in law a deposit like this is a two way agreement, if the buyer pulls out then they loose their deposit if it is is non returnable, however, if the seller then decides not to sell, then the deposit should be returned in FULL..

As various posts have stated there are two sides of the same story being debated. In response to the points about communication - I have been emailing the buyer daily trying to resolve this. I really wish she had raised her concerns with me before withdrawing from the purchase and posting comments. Had she raised her concerns I could have responded and emailed her my advice sheet that I give when pup is collected. However she was the one pushing to collect before seven weeks and because I felt that the pup was ready I agreed - she would have been 6wks 5days. With regard to the eye test - I do intend to have this test done but have had difficulty locating a vet able to do it - I have now found one and she will be tested soon. The buyer was fully aware of this when she entered into the agreement, the eye test is only recommended not compulsary. I decided to withhold the deposit because she gave me less than twenty four hours notice that she was pulling out and obviously I will incur additional costs readvertising, feeding, etc. I have started this process. She has now decided that she wants to go ahead and have the puppy but I am not prepared to let her go to someone who changes her mind so often. The welfare of my pups is of utmost importance to me and I need to be certain that they are going to the right homes. In my view she breached our agreement and forfeited her deposit. I have tried to resolve this with her but unfortunately to no avail. I am upset that she is making negative comments about me which are unjustified on this forum particularly since I have gone to great lengths to try and resolve this. I LOVE MY DOGS and THEY ARE ALL WELL LOOKED AFTER and WANT FOR NOTHING. I have never claimed to be a 'professional' breeder, we just have the odd litter because we love our dogs and love having puppies. I am truly sorry for the ladies distress but we are equally distressed by this unfortunate situation - I simply wish she had spoken to me first!

I cannot understand why you are both on here putting your views forward - you should both be talking to each other - not to us :rolleyes:

lesley that is exactly what i meant in my rather rambling post.often when we are getting a puppy we might not agree with all the breeders advice, but we can always discuss it with them and make a compromise.I feel sorry for both parties in this dispute, but feel that the deposit shouldn't be paid back!!

I quite agree - I have been trying to resolve this with the buyer but I found out that comments were being posted about me and felt I ought to respond. I have emailed her again this morning to try to put an end to the issue.

I would not refund a deposit.

Why email all the time just pick up the phone and talk to each other.