Hi all

I'm hoping for some tips to stop my 14 month old Gordon chasing birds. In the main her recall is very good. The problem lies if she sees a bird on the ground take off into the air.
She takes off after it with her head in the air and her ears firmly closed. She will eventually come back after much whistling and shouting. We have tried a long line and recall which works well, the problem lies when she is off the lead. I try to avoid taking her out at times when there are likely to be birds around, however I can see her being restricted to a life of lead walking. I really hate the thought of this as she really enjoys getting a good run and root around in the long grass.

Any advice would be very much appreciated
Alli

I'd keep her on the long line for the time being - each time she's succesful and gets a 'buzz' from it, the more she'll want to do it........

Hi - My 9 month old hound does it, she'll never catch one (I hope!) soon as the bird takes off and she knows she cant get it she comes back!  Our training is going great but distractions in open fields are a problem for my girlie - and she just loves to chase :rolleyes: That said we have a good relationship so if she trots after a bike or a jogger (and it is generally a trot) I ignore her and run away!!!  She then turns and comes after me, for which she gets a click and a treat.  I found that if I called her I would reinforce her curiosty as well as helping her ignore me - as I know I cant compete with such distractions right now.  Sure, sometimes we get the long line out, but I like her to be able to play, race and chase and generally have fun on walks (as long as she is safe of course!)  Gordons are so nice to see off lead - birds will always be around so it would be a shame to resort to putting her on lead because of this.  I wouldn't restrict a dog to lead only, if it chased a rabbit!  Its a natural thing for a predator to do and at her age I would enjoy her playful streak :)  If it were me I would ignore it and maybe play hide or chase me with her, use a positive distraction and get her onto something else.  Or, maybe take a pro-active approach and sit in a field together that you know birds 'hang about' in until she bores of them??
Sarah

this bird chasing is a result of something called "prey drive".  most dogs have some, but some have more than others.  my dog's prey drive is incredibly strong.  when he is chasing a squirrel or a bird or something, he cannot even hear me calling....like he is in a trance.  i keep him on a lead most of the time unless i know for sure we are somewhere where he'll be safe running off.  on hikes in the woods, i let him run because he is safe, but areound roads and such, i keep him leashed up. 
i guess if i were you, i would keep your dog leashed unless you are so certain he will come back or you are in a safe environment.
it is most difficult to get around this prey drive instinct.  ii really don't believe you can irradicate it, but if your dog is soooo well-trained, you can override the instinct.  my dog isn't that well trained!!!

What breed is Elija, maybe Morse's cousin? Im loving hearing about ops chasing misery :) Alli have you read Derry Argues Pointers and Setters? Its interesting and shows how he stops his youngsters chasing. I find I need to get in there with a distraction before Morse points or freezes otherwise Im doomed, and someones cat might be. I know you can train dogs to break off a chase, the police do it with their dogs after all, but it will take patience and relentless vigilance. Then just when Ive cracked it with Manic Morse Ill have a Gordon to confound me! :D

As you seem to know what you are doing... can you help us please.  Our English pointer is just over a year.  We have had him for 2 months as he is a rescue.. his behaviour at home cannot be faulted and recall in the garden works fine.  As soon as he is on a lead he 'snipes' and just wants to get off it, he doesnt pull but once he is off the lead and in a field he just heads to all bushes, ponds etc to chase out birds.  His recall then is bad - very bad.  He comes out when he is ready and most of the time just runs straight passed us to the next destination.  Along the canal path he is fine and most of the time comes back when called.  Please can you help - any suggestions

You are actually going about it 100% wrong! (Hows about that for a big headed statment! ;) )

As a gundog it's a big No No Alli. Also, as a game finding breed she will know if birds are around well before you will ever know!

You can never train a problem out by avoiding it. The answer is to watch how the working people go about it because we all get these problems, setter and pointer people rather more than retriever people. Lets face it, it's their job to find game so your not going to stop her finding it, it's what she does after she has found it that counts.

What you need to do is get into the habit of rewarding the act of finding a bird so that it is that aspect which you are bringing forward. Train a command for when she has found a bird. As it takes to the air the usual comand is "Gone Away". The object is, it's no longer there so get back to the important job of finding another bird. Initally use a long line so that you are in a position to enforce the command, and more important, to be able to reward the "find" before the flush.

Believe me, it's so lovely seeing a well trained dog doing the job it was bred for. And also, it is so much easier working with the dogs natural instincts than it is trying to oppose everything which is natural in a breed.

Best wishes, John

Thankyou to everyone for their help and advice.

I'll try what you suggest John and see how we get on. I have to say that she has a fabulous point whilst she is on the lead, however she is like a shot out of a gun when she is off.  It never occured to me reward her and teach her a command for finding the birds lol. My Irish has always been so good at recall, she will spot the birds but as soon as I whistle she is back beside me so I'm finding my Gordie really difficult. As I said before I don't want to have to keep her on the lead for the rest of her days as it is so lovely to see how happy she is free-running and having a ball.
Thanks again for all your help

Alli

Excellent advice from John as always :-D.  Is she pausing at all to go on point?  If she is, you can channel that into the equation.  If you have her on a long line and as soon as you see her hunting, hold onto the end of the long line, until she pauses and then say steady.  You should then allow her to creep forward.  Once she has flushed the bird and if she pulls forward, shout no or give your usual "correction" and then get her to hunt the ground and praise her LOTS.  A lot of inexperienced pointers and setters will chase birds as it takes a while for them to realise that pointing and hunting the ground is much more fun.

Gordons are still pretty much dual purpose, aren't they?  Didn't one become a full champion last year?  I imagine they have more hunting instinct than a show irish so that's probably why she is more "into" birds than your irish.

Helen

<<Didn't one become a full champion last year?>>

Yes, it did Helen :) There was an article about it in Shooting Times at the time. They are a lovely breed to watch.

Best wishes, John

I saw one last year at a pointer and setter trial - it could have even been the one that became the champion.

I'm just finding out the beauty of working setters.  Rob's boss has an IRWS and although I've not seen her on the moor yet, we have been looking after her and she is absolutely fantastic.  Such a great temperament and boy can she move.  Will be looking forward to seeing her work on the grouse.

Helen

It's my regret I don't get to see pointers and setters working much. You're in the ideal area Helen, up on the grouse moors. We had a woman come to training with an IRWS. Unfortunately when a starting pistol went off best part of half a mile away the poor dog went hysterical! It was from show lines and obviously had split a long way from the working dogs. It's such a shame when a breed looses its ability to do its job.

On a more cheerful note, working Curly Coated Retrievers are so thin on the ground these days but a few weeks ago I was taking some Flatcoat puppies and a friend of one of the Flatcoats brought her Curlie along. Purely a pet dog with no aspirations to work she asked me if she could join in. The dog was a natural! Steady, retrieving to hand and definitely not gun shy. After finding out what good fun it was she is now going to take the training further. Maybe we will be seeing another Curlie in the field soon!

Best wishes, John

If you are ever up this way John, let me know and we can take you out.  Rye (IRWS) is from pure working lines but is gunshy :-s.  That's how she came to the trust as she is ok for what is needed on the grouse counts.

I've never seen a curly working but would like to. Well done to the owner wanting to carry it on.  Gundog work is addictive, isn't it?

Helen

"If you are ever up this way John, let me know and we can take you out.
That's the best offer you've had so far this week John!!! :p :p :p

:-p Lol. 

Helen

You're not wrong there Val! That is definatley the best offer all week!

Thanks Helen, I might take you up on that one day :)

Best wishes, John

Hi All

I took my girl out today to a local animal park where dogs are allowed if they are on leads. They have many different types of birds all kept in avierys (sp?). I thought this might be a good idea, as I could paise and treat her every time she pointed at anything then encourage her to look on towards the next aviery. This seemed to work well after the first few treats and I'm sure everyone who was there thought I was a complete nutter as I kept saying "Go Find" then giving her a treat and telling her how well she was doing lol. After many trips around the bird area she was walking along very nicely to heel and stopping to point getting her treat and going on again. I'll take her out to the bird field tomorrow on the long lead and try to continue what I was doing today.
Thankyou ever so much for your advice and I only hope I can do it justice.

Alli

Brill, there is nothing like seeing a well controlled gundog having its instincts and drives channelled and controlled to advantage :)

Just a quick tip. When the bird 'flushes' (ie takes flight) get your dog to sit or lie down. Then treat. In this way you are rewarding the dog for not chasing rather than finding the bird.

The end result for a working setter would be : Quest for game, 'set' or point the game once located and wait for handler to get into position. The game would then be flushed either by commanding the dog to push on or possibly by the handler themselves. At this point the dog would be expected to drop immediately and stay there until instructed otherwise.

In a shooting situation the bird would either be shot or missed - either way the dog should stay put. In the UK setters are rarely used for retrieving, so at this point comes the 'gone away' command which tells the dog to ignore the last bird and look for a new one.

Setters can range a LONG way looking for game, so be prepared for some exercise! ;-)