Hiya, just wondering about another one of Glazby's little habits.

He really has a thing about standing over people.  He'll either climb up onto the sofa and will stand over you by putting a paw either side of you on the back of the sofa and then your left a lovely view of his bits!!  He won't do anything just stands there!!

Even if doesn't quite stand over you like that he'll come and stand on the sofa over your legs and again just stands there!!

Is this a top-dog thing or just a little quirk do you think??

My Henry does that.  If I lie on the sofa, he will stand over me and honestly....without sounding gross....his whatnot is right there staring in my face! I am sure he does it just to show off ha ha

I think it is a top dog sort of thing and I would stop him doing it ASAP ;)

i too think it is a dominance thing.  i would not call great attention to it, however, i would make the behavior stop.  it doesn't have to be a mean or harsh scolding, just move him out of the way or out of that possition. make sure he knows that you are the boss, not him.  

I am sorry but I would have to be paid a lot of money to endure being that close to all those dangly bits in this position :D :D

Thanks, he's not particularly dominant in anyother way - just a normal boisterous boxer!!  We'll try just pushing him down gently to get him away from standing like that.

I must say - its not a pretty sight!!!

Oh yes....definitely don't allow that. That is a dominant body language. He's not dominant in anyother way YET. He will be if these little types of things aren't checked. My Dobe has tried that too. I just push him off and make some kind of noise come out of my mouth. A-h-h-h Like, "Hey, uh-ah ... I don't think we're going there dude." LOL

Carrie

:p Thats why I have always had girls :)

Just be aware that *how* you dispose of him is as important as what he thinks he's doing there - if you start a battle of wills by pushing him around, he'll probably just push back.  It can be useful to keep a short length of lead on him so you can lead him away, rather than push.  Alternatively, simply get up!

ya, trust me, i would never have a "pushing battle" with my dog.  he would never push back on me.  if i GENTLY move him out of the way, this is not considered "pushing him around".  yes, standing up would be a good way to resolve the whole thing. 

Oh I push my Doberman around. I throw him off of me and then I turn it into a game with my voice, "get off!" in a more playful tone and he comes with his butt in the air and his tail going zing zing zing. And then I push him back again. Then he gets a toy for me to throw or paws at me so we can shake on it. lol. In other words, it doesn't have to be any kind of scolding...just get him off and become the one that's keeping on top of things.

But that is exactly Digger's point Carrie!  Pushing a dog off you, furniture etc does not work as a discouragement to unwanted behaviour precisely BECAUSE it is seen as an invitation to play by dogs just as you so aptly described! :D

Well, I see what you mean. You say it doesn't work. But it did work for me. Lyric hasn't humped or jumped on me since and it's been a month or two. I guess I did play with him, but not until he got off and I DID tell him "OFF." Now he just plays, doesn't "mount." GROSS. Well, I guess it would be better to just get them off and say, "good boy."

Today he got me. I was dremelling one of the other dog's nails and bending over... kind of was on my knees and my shrit was up a bit in the back. He had a cold drink of water and then came and stuck his nose on my back and I let out a blood curdling screech. IT WAS SO COLD and WET!!!! A-h-h-h-h...think I spooked him.

As you have had him castrated one would naturally expect any mounting behaviour to diminish anyway.

Yeah, he only did that once or twice. Then what he did that was too pushy was stand over me when I was trying to do something on the floor, like wash it, sidle up against me trying to get over me and sometimes put his front feet around me but not do that other thing....the cha cha. LOL. He's a dominant breed and sometimes they do stuff like that anyhow, just not so intense when neutered. Sometimes when he does that sidling thing, it's not looking like dominance. It's just trying to be close or be silly. There's just a different body language or expression too. The dominance look is different. He kind of straightens his legs stiff and puts his head down over a part of me. Dobes are known for wanting to be close. He can't lie next to me without having a paw or a chin on my leg, no matter how awkward it is for him. LOL. Or he likes to sit on my feet, or have his bottom on my lap and his front feet on the floor. LOL. They are a funny breed....want to be close. So, I have to be careful not to scold him for standing over me, because I could mistake it and he's only being affectionate. So I don't like to make a federal case out of it, but just get him off.  What I do draw the line on is how he pushes his nose against me when I'm cooking on the stove. He pushes and pushes against my side and darn near could burn his nose on the gas stove. So I am now teaching him to "away." He needs to stand back a ways. (He's gotten so tall all of a sudden.) Or when he wants something, push push with his nose. It's like, "hey, chill." These are little tiny signs of pushiness that if let go and let accumulate can lead to troubles with these dogs. He does have to know his place but not in a heavy handed way....absolutely not.

And he is turning into a really lovely dog, such a nice, affectionate boy and so trainable. He just knows what I mean so quickly and it only takes a couple of times or less. Even when I mess up, he often still knows what I mean. I think this is a really fun breed.

Thanks for your ideas. Yes, I must be careful not to send mixed messages for sure.

Carrie

lots of times mounting is more about dominance than anything sexual.  i had my dog neutered at 6 mos. however, every now and again, he still gets up on another dog.  this is him saying "Im the boss".  he has never humped or mounted or gotten on me because he knows i am already the boss.  

Dominance, yawn .......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.dog-dominance.co.uk/

I'm with you Tohme My boys just like other boys ;)

Dominance nah just the latest in a long line of fads

Tohme,

I've seen lots of articles to that effect. That's not that new, that theory. Whether or not dogs see us as alpha as in a wolf pack is really moot. Those kinds of behaviors, that sidling up, pushing, standing over, looking taller, shoving into you are pushy. They do it to eachother and they do it to humans sometimes too. My Dobe has. You don't have to use the word dominant if you don't like that word. They're pushy. They're obtrusive. They often DO lead to more and more pushiness. I've seen it with other peoples' dogs where they allow too many of those types of things, (not just one here and there) to go on. They also let them have their own way about everything. They tend to escalate. Maybe you don't know what I mean. I know you're familiar with dogs. I see it a lot with my dogs, one trying to push the other back in one of these ways. First it's one for a while. Then another will do something another time. They're not looking like they're playing and they're not fighting either. The big one will side step and push the little one over. The little one looks very uncomfortable and sometimes gets ready to growl. This kind of behavior, according to my trainer and my Doberman breeder must be stopped by me in the case of these two drastically different sized dogs. And my Doberman breeder knows what she's talking about, believe me. She really knows these dogs...has for 45 years. So, maybe it's a difference only in terms. Don't know....doesn't really matter.

Carrie

....and it doesn't have to be stopped in a domineering way either. I sometimes just tell him, "away" or "leave it" or change the subject, but he needs to quit. And the little dog mustn't antagonize the big guy either. Sometimes he can be pushy too and fiesty, but it's usually in retaliation, but he tends to hold a grudge. LOL. These little struggles could escalate into a bad situation. I do worry about my two boys....not a good idea to have two boys, especially when one is a Dobe.(even if they're neutered. It helps somewhat, but not all together)  It's a risk that has to be watched carefully. And it's advised to never have two male Dobermans together. They are notoriously antagonistic toward eachother. I've heard of some fighting to the kill....terrible. But my breeder thought the two different breeds would work out. She has a male Dobe and a male of some other breed and they're buddies. So, at this point my two boys have a love/hate relationship. They do things together, like explore around the property and play too sometimes. They're seen together a great deal of the time, but they do get into these little "power struggles" at times. So, I do worry.

Carrie

tohme, you are astoundingly rude.
and wrong.
many times dogs show dominance by humping on each other.  do you people know anything about dogs?

you are the one that said that since the dog had been nuetered, it shouldn't be mounting too much......well, lots and lots of dogs that have been neutered and spayed still get up on eachother.  this is because it is about dominance.  or whatever word you would like to use.

Of course it could just be sexual behaviour As castrating males does not mean they will stop being sexually interested in in season females  & can actually mate with them Where is the dominance in that

Too many people try to make out that animals want to "dominate"the homosapien by their quite normal behaviour.

For example wanting to go through a door first is that dominance or the desire to get to the car to go for a ride, diving on top of older dogs dominance or normal play ?

It is man that has made animals playthings & when they revert to natural behvaiour see it as trying to dominant. Witness in the wild the behaviour that the young are allowed before being corrected by the higher ranked animals is far greater than most poor dogs are allowed, yet they are trying to "dominate"their owners ?

& before you condemn my opinion as so much trash try studying wildlife for a lifetime  & then think again

i am sorry you feel i trashed your oppinion.  i apologize for sounding like that.  like you think im wrong, i disagree with you.  that is okay.  i think it isn't ALWAYS about sexuality.  i do think that dominance and the idea (coming from nature) of "top dog" certainly comes into play.  ever watch wolves?  there is always an alpha or a boss.

anyhow, i was more refering to tohme in my last couple of posts because i find that he is very rude and pompous.  his attutude in posts i.e. "dominance.......yawn....."  shows a real superiority issue with him.  if he is bored here, perhaps he aught to go get a  job training dogs or showing people his expertise, rather than making fun of them.

When comparing the behaviour of dogs and wolves, it is important to remember that Man has, through domestication, neotenised dogs so that, even in the adult form they retain juvenile characteristics - ie, we like our dogs to behave like puppies, wanting to play etc, even when they're grown up. So dog behaviour should be compared to that of wolf cubs, not adults, if at all.
:)

"For example wanting to go through a door first is that dominance or the desire to get to the car to go for a ride, diving on top of older dogs dominance or normal play ?"

They're in a hurry to get out the door. They don't want to wait because they want to get out. NOW! LOL. It's wanting their own way because they haven't been taught what we call manners. That IS dominance. That having the upper hand or insisting on their own way. What do you think dominance is? That's all it is....wanting to be first.

If we want to have a pleasant coexistance with animals, we normally teach them our way or manners. That makes us and OUR way first. (dominant) I think the word is being over rated.

As for understanding animal behavior, I for one have studied this a good deal in school. There are lots of people who understand animals. They may not see things the same way or interpret things the same way. This is the way it is with most any subject when you get a group of people together. When people don't think the same way as you, it isn't a personal affront. It's a difference in our thinking. There is no need Tohme to be so defensive or whatever it is. Don't worry. No one is trying to dominate you. LOL. (joke) I, for one respect many of your ideas and theories. You have a lot of insight and some innovative tricks to help with dogs. I, however do not feel the same about your delivery or your "yawn."

Re your second paragraph, Carrie. When a group of kindergarten children are waiting to be let out to play, and they're crowding round the door, do you think they're being dominant? Or do you think they have just forgotten (or not been taught!) their manners? Having bad manners is an entirely different thing to dominance! All dogs will be 'bad-mannered' if they're not taught how we want them to behave. Only maybe 10% will be typical 'dominant' dogs. Just like people - there are loads of bad mannered people in every walk of life, but they don't all want to be President (human dominance)!

Thank you all for your comments and advice.  Tonight when Glazby came and did his usual stand up over me, rather than push him away I put my arm over him and gently pulled him round into a sitting position with his front paws and head sort of resting on my lap.  I then said "Good Settle" with his mum and gave him nice fusses.

I don't mind him coming to lay down with me for a cuddle so though I'd try rather than pushing him away - make it into a cuddle thing instead.  He tried to stand up a couple of times (with the biggest sighs ever!!) but I persevered and he settled down with me after a couple of goes.

Hopefully this will sort out any dominance and turn it into fusses instead.  :-)

I'm with Carrie on this one and come down on the side of dominant though It is only my opinion and I do not wish to argue with anyone. I came to this conclusion  based on years of observations made when working with dogs. We used to have a Ch. bitch called 'Bossy Franny', she was most definatley 'top dog' in the kennel and reinforced this position by standing on the others. When the other dogs went out for their walks or came back to kennels from a show she would mount each ones shoulders  in turn as if to say 'I am still the boss'. When it was her turn to come in the house (the dogs took it in turns 3 per night) she would climb up on the sofa and if you had another dog on your knee would stand and put her front feet on your shoulder..'i'm boss cuddle me'. It was the same with food,you put her bowl down first or she would rush over stand on the other dogs shoulders and growl and claim the first bowl for herself. If you crouched down to talk to another dog in the kennel she would climb on your shoulder, Fran was such a character..so funny and I have many stories about her. The male dogs were kept separately. There were never any fights among the 12+ girls and assorted puppies,everyone knew their place with Fran as the head, the place was rightfully hers anway,she was the foundation bitch and was not only a Ch. but produced many more. :-D

Jean...the group of kindergarten children pressing to get out the door are not of the mindset that they are dominant over the teacher or anyone YET. They just want to go out badly. If manners are not taught to these children. IF allowed to get their own way and allowed to push through the door this time and every time with every thing, for a period of time, they will most likely turn into little nasty, ornery brats DEMANDING that they have everything first, do what they want, boss all the kids around and be general bullies.

These kinds of pushy behaviors, if not checked will make a dog bratty too, bossy, pushy, aggressive. Just try it if you like...if you don't agree with putting an end to those behaviors in one way or another. I don't care how it's done. You'll end up with a dog like many dogs I've seen and seen handled in such a way. I don't want to argue either. I don't care because my dogs don't get that way. I'll bet yours don't either because you put an end to unacceptable, pushy behavior, I trust.

Dogs do live in a social heirarchy and do develop certain behaviors and try to set up an order of sorts and I don't care if anyone else thinks they don't. Dogs aren't wolves and there are differences in how they manage. They've changed a lot since domesticated. I understand that. But they are descended from wolves and only a few genes removed from wolves. I'm not here to argue about that. That's just ridiculous. It's getting away from what the poster was asking.

Anyone can raise their dog how they want. It just amazes me over and over how many aggression issues I hear about. I've never had that problem. It really doesn't matter. I have seen, handled and observed dogs and other animals for a very long time. I'm going off what I've lived, not only what I've read. It's my opinion.

Reddor, I can just see Bossy Franny. LOL. Oh yes, there are countless examples of a dog showing discrete body language that people sometimes just miss or think is play or something else, something from a human's standpoint of emotions, as if the dog is a human child. Some things won't go any further or turn into a problem if other things are done instead, all will be well. But I've seen too many examples during my life where you see a definite switch around of who's getting their way about everything. (I won't use those nasty words that everyone hates or yawns at. LOL)
I mean...I let my dogs do all kinds of things that I would be cautious to suggests that someone new to dogs do. It's because there are checks and balances going on subconsciously.

Carrie

Carrie, I have no idea where you get the impression I think children (or dogs!) being pushy and bratty is acceptable, because I certainly don't! My point was that it is simply bad manners, not dominance!

I especially said that I am sure you don't allow bad manners from your dogs. I don't know where you get the idea that I get the idea that you get the idea that you don't have to accept bad manners. LOL LOL.

No... bad manners IF left unchecked (you gotta read the whole thing) CAN turn into a switheroo where the dog is evolving slowly into a dominant member of the family. Down the road you will see some scary changes take place if the dog is allowed to think he is the one in charge. Dogs do have a heirarchy whether it is exactly as wolves or not. They have to to survive. There are dogs who have been domestic and go wild, join a pack of ferrell dogs. They have to have an order. They have been observed to display similar behaviors as wolves as far as heirarchy. So, I'll never buy the story that they do not set up an order. I have seen too much to think otherwise. I believe they see us as conspecifics and that is why they act certain ways to us as they do eachother.

i is so strange to me that this seems to be so hard for some people to understand.  the point is really so simple!  here, i'll have a go at explaining it. 

dictionary defination from websters:  DOMIINANT:  1. ruling or controling;having or exerting authority.  2. occupying a commanding or elevated position. 
to dominate is to have the "mafor power or influence in. 
so, when you allow your dog to decide who is going outside first, or who is going to use the couch, or from the origional poster, stand over your body, you are encouraging dominance.  when your dog is jumping all over you because it wants a bite of your doughnut, it not only is displaying bad manners, but is also assuming that he is the boss and you are going to give him what he wants.  i'm not saying anyone here does this, im just using it as an example.

likewise the connection with children is here.  children that get everything how they want it, are what we called spoiled brats.  they whine when they don't get their way, they have tantrums when they aren't in control of the parent.  this is, in a sense, a fight for dominance.  the child wants control therefore is having a tantrum. 

it seems that so many people don't tell their dogs no or take charge of situations with their dogs. this coddling just places the dog in an elevated position therefore creating his dominance over you.  this is where some aggression can come from.  someone spoils their dog, dog thinks he is boss, and then owner asks something of the dog that the dog doesn't want to do and the owner gets biten or growled at.  i've read a ton of posts like that i.e.  "when i try to take a toy out of my dog's mouth, he growls and snaps at me!"
well, my dog would not try this!  he drops it when i say drop it. 
or, "when i try to sit on my couch my dog growls at me". 
these are examples of dogs that have gained control over their households or (here comes that word again) dominance.

anyhow, the simple way to avoid this is to set boundaries with your dog, for example, i don't let my dog stand looming over my body.  it is not a big deal to teach this or other manners.  it just sort of comes with everyday stuff rather than an orderly training session.  it is just iin the way i do things.  by teaching your dog manners, you will be able to keep control of unwanted behaviors that DO lead to dominance.  dogs are much like wolves in that they always want to establish a social hierarchy, which is fine with me as long as my dog is not higher on it than me.

I agree entirely that dogs (and people) like a social structure. However very few (of both species) want to be leader! At the risk of this thread going off at a tangent, it has been found many times that dogs (and children) will 'assume the position' of boss only if there isn't a genuine one already. They would far prefer someone else to have the job and would be perfectly content being 'lowly Joe'. These are not naturally 'dominant' dogs. They are natural underlings being forced into a position they don't want, which is why they are unhappy dogs (and children). There are very, very few truly dominant dogs.
:)

thoughts are really changing towards dominance theories now! im not totally convinced one way or the other, BUT since i chilled out abit ,about setting & keeping to "the rules", my dogs are much happier & their behaviour hasent got worse!
ive read alot about wolves etc too!!

so who knows!!!?????

Well said elija :-) Defining the 'd' word in dogs mostly boils down to observation and using your commonsence. :-) The dog I mentioned  'Franny' (Min Sch) was certainly displaying the 'd' word. This was in the 1960s long before the word 'behaviourist' appeared in the doggy vocabulary. Her dominant attitude was a good thing in a way because it kept a natural order out in the kennels, when she tried it on in the house with humans and was told off she would go and sit in the dog bed with her back to you and snort with mouth down at the corners!! :-P

that is hysterical reddoor!  i can just see franny pouting. 

well, jeanie hit the nail on the head.........dog's will be the leader if there isn't one already....DUH!!!
what have i been saying?  if you aren't the boss or leader of your dog, they will be the boss or leader of you.
why is this so hard?

oh and there are many dominant breeds.....dobermann, rotwieler(sp?), gsd, irish wolfhound,....etc. to say that  there are very few dominant dogs is absolutely rediculous.  you will find the word dominant on lots of different breed write-ups or summmaries.

I think in all animal/human orders there is a leader..even in sheep!!  :-P If there is a 'vacancy' an assertive individual will fill that position,if you don't want your dog to fill that position in your 'society' you need to make the fact known in no uncertain terms :-)

elija, you are completely missing the point! Most dogs, like people, aren't naturally dominant! But they need a structure to their lives, and are unhappy without one. If people don't accept that role, then they will - because they have to - not because they want to!

Imagine one day you are told that, for the foreseeable future, you are going to be solely responsible for running your company, or school or whatever. Nobody else is going to help - it's all down to you. And if you don't make a good job of it you think you might die.

I'm sure you'd hate it - I know I would. And when someone turned up to take over, I'd hand over the reins with a huge sigh of relief. However, there are a few people who would think "Great! Now's my opportunity for power! I've always wanted to do this - watch me!"

They are the dominant ones - not the rest of us who would do our best but hate every minute.

By the way, all the dobermanns and rottweilers I've ever met have been soppy dates - not dominant dogs at all!

ABSOLUTELY JEAN. The dog would MUCH rather have the owner be in charge, to keep him feeling safe and secure, and not have to have that responsibility.  It is exactly my point.

It's the people who do not make rules and stick by them, who allow their dogs to assume dominant body language aimed at them who end up with problems. The dog will not go very far at all, if at all... with an owner they feel is the leader. When we at times let things slide too much or are not consistant, sometimes they'll feel that there's a chance their leader isn't going to be doing this job much longer. There's a window. They'll test to see if perhaps they were after all born to lead. Somebody's gotta do it.

They need an order to their lives just as we do or any specie who lives in groups, family groups, society groups, pack, herding... whatever... rather than singly. And to maintain that order there is communication between them. That communication is their body language. If an order is maintained, there are not big fights or struggles. There will tend to be testing moments because no one can keep up a steady, precise level of perfection of leadership all of the time. We all probably let one little thing slide here and there and that's when the dog MAY be ready to try and apply for the job. (especially if it's a particularily dominant type breed, such as a Doberman) So, if we watch for that, we can hand the application back and say, "No, job already taken."

Carrie

Elija,

This is so funny. We must be writing at the same time. When I start, yours isn't there and when I put it up yours is there. Duh...of course. Mine are so rambling.

I think you're probably all violently agreeing here! :-D

I have seen very, very few genuinely "dominant dogs", however, I have lost count of the number of dogs that I have seen which display dominant behaviour either to or around their owner. This includes some of the sweetest most inoffensive little creatures who have no more wish to be pack leader than fly to the moon!

Yes, there are plenty of dogs that are dominant around other dogs, but most will quite happily accept a human "boss" without any significant confrontation with their trainer.

I think this really boils down to the way that the trainer wants to correct the issue rather than the dogs reasoning for the action in the first place. Chances are that with the majority of dogs either a "corrective" measure or a reward / distraction measure will have some benefit. The debate arises as to which is most effective and seems to be the primary cause for squabbles on this forum! ;-)

i don't know if we are all agreeing here or not.  we don't really have to agree, this is a forum.  but, there are dog breeds that are more dominant that others.  for instance a chi isn't going to be very dominant.  a dobermann is.  most of the breeds designed for protection must have dominant qualities so that they are confident enough  to protect their households.  i don't mean barking, i mean dogs that actually take measures to protect. 
this is not at all what the post is about however.  the original poster has a dog that is standing over her.  i say, don't let the dog do that.  he may be testing her limits to see if she is really the boss or not.  if she doesn't discontinue the dog's behavior, the dog may think "well, i guess she isn't the boss, i'll have to be."  IF this is the case, that particular dog owner could have some potential problems with her dog struggling with her for dominance.  i just got done reading something on the AKC site about a certain herding breed that NEEDS a dominant master or the dog will vie for a dominant role.  anyhow, this is the truth.  there is no arguing about it.  i have not missed any points....in fact, i have been trying to explain to you in simpler and simpler terms what i mean here.
either you misunderstand on purpose or you are really not getting it.

anyhow, in regards to the original poster, i would just not allow the dog to stand over you.  she has already gotten this advise from me and a few others, so i will not be commenting on this thread again.  i am just wasting my breath trying to argue something unarguable.

Elija,
Not sure if you are referring to me about misunderstanding you or really not getting it. If you are then you couldn't be more wrong. I understand completely what your talking about & for what its worth, pretty much agree with you. ;-)

Dont throw in the towel when the discussion is getting interesting ;-)

My Doberman and others I've known and read about on a Dobe board I go on are all affectionate, sweet, big sensative babies, especially the boys. I live with a Doberman day in and day out 24/7. I think I'm getting to know my dog pretty well. Being dominant doesn't mean being nasty. Being aggressive doesn't necessarily mean in a hostile way. The Doberman is classified as a dominant breed, meaning they are aggressive. They try at times to get their way....more so than another breed. They're tenacious. They have to be to be the wonderful guard dogs that they are. They do not back down for anything in the face of a threat. That aggressiveness is what makes them what they are. That dominant personality is underlying and the correct Doberman should never be shy or timid. Puppies sometimes will be a little bit, but it should disappear by the time they're older. It should not be excessive...no way. Then you have a time bomb. They should be fearless and loyal. But you have to handle them correctly which I have studied obessively for a long time before buying mine. They are not a breed for everyone.

The dogs you saw which were sops (or whatever you termed them as) I totally believe you. They are. They are lovely and affectionate, loyal and playful, perky, alert, and vicious and dangerous when their family is threatened.  But they don't get that way on their own. It takes a considerable amount of work to have a complete Doberman...more time and attention than your average breed. They do not need special training for protection and in fact shouldn't have it.

I have had many dogs. I have never had one as in your face as this guy. He's in your face in good ways too. He is such a good ole boy slob, very affectionate and sweet. He's just intense. It's hard to explain. He's lovely. I was talking to my niece this morning and comparing him to children. You can have a two year old watching you cooking something on the stove. They stand back 3 or 4 feet and ask you lots of questions. Whatch doin? Why? Why? What for? How come? Then you can have another 2 yr. old child watching, but they're not satisfied to stand way back and just ask questions. They need to get their face right up over the pot and look inside. They will lean against you or even push you over to get their face where they want it. They push. They're just more intense. This is very typical of a Doberman Pinscher. They're a kick....lots of fun and very interesting, in fact more interesting to me than a lot of breeds, extremely curious which marks intelligence, into everything, absolutely into everything, more so than many breeds I've had. BUT without scolding necessarily, (I laugh my head off sometimes at him) they need to temper down the pushing for their own way though....back off a bit. That tempering of that pushiness along with a lot of other things makes them wonderful dogs. It's the ones who are let to develop on their own,  how they will.....at their will which you hear bad stories about.

Carrie -

"The Doberman is classified as a dominant breed, meaning they are aggressive."

I am sure that those well versed and respected and experience in the breed over a period of many years such as Christine would take great exception to this sweeping statement!

Elijah - I am a female!

I have a little bit of experience dealing with "high drive" dogs such as Rottweilers, GSDs, BSDs, Bouvier de Flandres, etc etc as well as several other breeds in various competitive arenas such as Schutzhund, Working Trials and Mondioring to name but a few and can absolutely agree with Havoc that truly "dominant" dogs are, thankfully, extremely rare. 

I have managed to cope with these and my own breed which I have trained to an extremely high level in the UK without the use of any rank reduction programmes espoused by the followers of various "gurus" of the past, with just the aid of a clicker and several hundred kilos of frankfurter and this has not resulted in any loss of respect for me or any poor behaviour from my dogs.

You of course are entitled to your opinions (as I am mine) but I not only believe but have proved (as have many, many others both in the UK and elsewhere) that it is possible to not only own but train extremely assertive dogs with no regard to when I or they eat, who goes through the doors first or who is in front out on walks. 

However I am sure my experience pales into insignificance next to yours ...............

All I can say is learning from life is a better experience than learning from theory

If you observe wild dogs in the wild & not a film etc of the same judiously edited to make interesting viewing you would see much of what goes on in the domestic dog

However man has decided that puppy biting, going though doors first etc is not acceptable

Having observed the discipline given out by the alpha females in wild dogs they allow puppies much more liberties than most humans do & when they have had enough they grump & walk away & ignore. They do not snarl or growl(human word no)& they certainly do not resort to physical aggression with puppies & young dogs

However as usual I will leave this thread to you more qualified people who have done more theory learning than I could ever manage & who probably all have lovely long qualifications in behaviour after your names

By the way why was the remark[b ]I, however do not feel the same about your delivery or your "yawn."  aimed at me ??????

"All I can say is learning from life is a better experience than learning from theory"

I totally agree Moonmaiden :D

Shame that the interesting debates start to get edgy and personal. ;-) Looks like the trusty padlock will be wielded soon!

no, havoc, i wasn't refering to you when i said some people don't understand what i mean.  i meant the few who twist my words and just don't seem to get what i mean most of the time.  you, i think, understand me and agree with me, mostly.
i was only wanting to throw in the towel because this debate is getting absurd. i have a nice, happy, extremely well-mannered dog that i love very much, so my theories and ideas must not be completely wrong.  i must be doing something right.  i also don't care for the sarcasm used by others saying things like "oh, your credentials at the ends of your names"  or whatever was said.  i don't have any credentials.  i am, however, a regular person that does the best i can by my dog and i am on this forum to offer advise and perhaps debate a little.  i am smart and have studied animals but don't have any degrees acquired in animal behavior.  i only have my experiences to go on and what just makes sense to me. 

moonmaiden:  i was not refering to you with the yawn.  if you were reading along this thread, you will see that as soon as i mentioned dominance in the first place, tohme came and said "dominance.......yawn".  that is what started this whole thing:  tohme's rudeness. 
and tohme, i couldn't care less if you are male or female, or both for that matter.  you are rude to me and the other posters on here.

so, that is why i am throwing in the towel on this one.  i'm not going to keep repeating things. 
of course there are dominant breeds.  of course dominance doesn't equal aggressive.  aggressive doesn't equal gnashing teeth.  tohme, i would say you are fairly aggressive....not going to attack, but you are certainly not submissive.  neither am i.  so, why can't there be dominant dogs?  well, there are.

no, i don't always have to eat first or go out the door first or use the upper hand all the time to keep my dog knowing im the boss.  he knows that i am in charge just from my everyday body language and tone.  he is a domineering dog and would love to run the show, but he does not because he knows that i already run the show.  we get along famously and have no power struggles what so ever.  so in a way, i am not disagreeing with you or thinking you are wrong about somethings, like that bit you wrote about eating first or your dog eating first.   

anyhow this kind of arguing is totally non-productive and i don't want to be a part of it.