Hi,   
I'm slowly planning on changing to raw feeding, for the last couple of days they have had a few chicken wings, and a bone each that looked like a big rib, which they ate most of. I've noticed their poo is dryer already. This morning I did notice traces of bone, which I've heard is quite normal, but I also noticed a bit of red, which I'm presuming is blood. Is this normal too.

Michelle.  

The lining of the intestines does not have a covering of skin as does the outside of an animal, and the blood vessels are very near the surface, in fact, the surface of the intestines is where the nutritional substance of food is removed to the blood stream of the individual so any sharp or hard item passing through can and will cause damage to the intestinal lining. Think, may be, as the dog gets used to having bones they may chew them up better or perhaps scar tissue forms in the intestine, but the bleeding does stop, or so I am told.

Hi Mitch

I used to see the odd bone and bit of blood when I first started feeding raw but I don't any longer - even the pups produce white poo occasionally (no sign of bones) if the bone proportion in their meal has been a bit high as it was yester
day when they tackled (not very successfully) a lamb neck and ribs.

If I were you I would stick to the chicken wings etc for the first few weeks as these generally come from young birds with bones that are not fully formed, until their systems get used to this type of diet.

I agree with Christine, you should start with one source and gradually over a period of weeks introduce new foods in order to minimise any problems.

You could also try adding Apple Cider Vinegar to the food a tbsp per meal which can help with bone breakdown to those not used to it.

I add a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar to my dogs drinking water daily,it is chock full of minerals and enzymes and it is also claimed that it keeps fleas at bay.But make sure to buy the unfiltered,unpasturised cider with the "mother" still in it,the supermarket ones are useless.

christine

Hummm, I don't think the fish would appreciate this somehow.  My lot don't drink much unless it is very hot and then they much prefer the fish pond to all the buckets and bowls I have around the place

are you giving minced muscle meat too?  the bones you should be giving should be MEATY, too much bone and not enough meat can cause constapation and straining.  if the bones are not really meaty you need to add extra boneless meat.  also if you are not feeding 100% raw make sure you are feeding the wings etc seperate from the kibble, the bones wont be digested properly if they are sat in the middle of a load of kibble.  you also need to feed offal and fruit and veg as part of the diet to create balance,
kelly

Yes Kelly, I've e.mailed you plenty for advice, I think I've got the just of it now :D
Their morning food is a dried complete, their T.time meal is raw. which is a variety and the amount they should be having like you suggested.
I think they must of been slightly constipated as it was quite hard. It must of been the bone they had, I thought it was just a bone the would gnaw on, but they ate most of it.
They have had mostly chicken wings and mince up to now
While they are still having dried for one meal, is it still neccesary for them to have mulched up veg. As I have put a variety through the blender mixed with raw egg to blend it together. I've bagged and froze it for when I need it.
I was planning on putting it with their dried food a couple of times a week. would that be ok, or would it be better to maybe add it to tripe for their T.time meal.

Michelle.
Where would I buy the Apple Cider Vinegar, if the supermarket one is no good

A fruit/veg meals goes through them way to quickly to be put with anything else :-)  I do add some mince to mine to make it a touch more palatable.

What is your reason for maintaining the morning complete meal, out of interest?

Hi Sarah,
Mainly till I feel confident that I am doing everything right, and they are getting everything they need.
Also I'm a bit worried about when they have to be looked after, or in kennels or when we take them away anywhere. It would be easier all round it they could be fed dried. I don't no a kennels that feed raw.

Michelle.

My kennels feed what I give them, it is all bagged up, dated, morning and afternoon so all they have to do is defrost and tip into bowl.  Most kennels would be happy to do this for you I think.

So if you were going away for a week, would your bags be marked in days as well, eg  Mon/morn, Mon/afternoon, Tues/ morn, Tues/afternoon and so on. or don't you have a set menu so to speak.

Michelle.

Yes, I put labels on for Monday am, Monday pm etc just so they get one RMB meal per day and A N Other meal per day.

Michelle

To me BARFing for the majority of the time, even if I had to give complete on the odd occasion they were in Kennels would be most important to me.  But as Tohme says, check with the kennels you use :-)

I am more anti complete & BARF on a half and half, than I am either/or as a total, if that makes sense   It is a decision I feel you have to make, and once made if you go with BARF then scarey as it may feel, it really isn't and I do think you quickly get used to assessing the look/health of your dogs and acting accordingly :-)

There are some BARF lists if you feel that will help

Hi - a lot of kennels won't.  If it's cooked they will, but many won't do the raw due to hygiene worries on their part.  There are other kennels in the area that probably would, but I wouldn't leave my worst nighmare at them.  So it's a compromise I make partly to ensure my dogs living standards in kennels is otherwise the best quality.  Really good proper kennels are few and far between.

Mitch - I feed mine complete in the morning and raw in the evening and they are doing well on it.  We've been doing it for a year.  This way if we need to give them complete at any point for any reason they can, and they dive into their complete meals almost as eagerly as their raw.  We're all happy this way. If it works for you GREAT.  If you feel you want to move to totally raw, great.  Don't let anyone talk you into anything you're not comfortable wtih:)  People have been feeding dogs for hundreds of years - methods and varieties have changed and modified.  If it works for you and your dogs are healthy then stick to it.  Back to the original question - it does sound like perhaps there was too much bone in their diet that day or two previous.

Wendy

Thanks Wendy,
I didn't see any harm in feeding half/half, my dogs seem happy with it. I'll stick with it, at least for the time being.

Michelle.

OK so lets look at this the other way then :-) why is it so right & so good to feed half & half? What is it bringing health wise to your dogs, what is it improving, making better, what effect has it on their nutritional intake, how does it improve this?  What research have you done into this? Convince me why it's good :-)

What nutritional benefit to half-and-half feeding, Sarah? It ensures a reasonable nutritional balance whilst still giving 'owner satisfaction' that they aren't getting bored with the same food all the time. What research? 10 years' observation of their health and condition - no problems there! Convince you? No- why try? You're happy with your views, we half-and-halfers are happy with ours. There's no single 'right way' to feed any dog (in fact many people with multiple dogs find they they need different diets for each one - I know one dog who can't tolerate fresh meat, for example) so there's little point in trying to evangelise.
:)

I think everyone has to feed according to various factors some of which may, as already been pointed out, to take into account putting a dog into kennels or having a dog sitter etc neither of whom may be prepared to feed raw; therefore if you take this route it leaves the options open when situations like this arise.  I am lucky, all the excellent kennels I have used are quite prepared to feed raw as they have the facilities and knowledge to offer this service

Also some owners who are just dipping a toe into raw feeding may take time to be convinced that their dogs can get all their nutritional requirements from a raw diet.  Also it can take time for owners to become confident in introducing new foods or even finding sources for them if, like me, they only want to feed human grade material.

Everything you have said Tohme, is exactly how I feel about it all. :)
Deep down I would like to feed totally raw but these few points are making me think it will be easier all round if they would still happily eat dried/tinned foods as well.

Michelle.

No one said SO right and SO good.  I said it works for me and my dogs.  They are extremely healthy, their coats are silky (ask anyone who knows us) their teeth sparkle, and I know that somewhere along the way I'm not missing anything from their diet because the balance is in the higher quality kibble that I feed them.  I don't have to play the guessing game, I don't have to make someone who's looking after my animals feed them something which may gross them out either hygenically, or just in general.  If they weren't thriving on it then I'd reconsider and either go all the way or go back to just kibble, however it's working for them.

At the end of the day what 'actual, real scientific' research has been done on raw feeding?  Very little.  Most of it is a few people who've advised us that this is good and we buy into it.  I agree with the thought behind it and the results people are getting, but if raw feeding is soooo good and soooo right then why is there such a diversity regarding how much veg, what type of veg, how many vitamins, how many supplements, what type of supplements, whether or not to even supplement.  It's completely a guessing game.  So I figure my guessing game is as good as anyone else's :-D

Wendy

The reason no scientific research has been done on raw feeding is no one has the money to do it except the food manufactures ;) It would mean animal testing such as Eukanuba/Pedigree & others have done & I doubt whether any of the vets who advocate it would be prepared to put into practice those necessary trials required for it. Science needs hard proof, it won`t accept many yrs of experience unfortunately. I don`t guess at all, I know for a fact good wholesome nutrition is the basic for health & you don`t get that eating a daily diet of processed food :)

Christine, Spain.

I also feed mine half-and-half, Michelle, and so do many other people I know (whose dogs do extremely well in the showring, and some work too, so they're not 'just pets'). Mine too have complete for breakfast and raw meat and biscuit in the evening. They thrive, so there's no problem!
:)

Mitch,
You will find the natural ACV in health food shops.

christine