I'm trying to freestand my beagle at shows as she looks more natural.  She is a natually happy bitch and wags it in the ring and for the first few moments when she's standing,  but if she's been standing for too long, her tail does eventually go down, so I have to reach over and lift it up.

Any advice on how I can get her to keep her tail up on her own?  

thanks - sarah

No but your could try moving toward her so she has to move back and then walking her into a stand or walking her around in a circle and then re-standing, judges will wait for you and you can judge the time the judge will arrive to look at your exhibit and get her stood just before they arrive.

This question got me wondering, has anyone used the old dealer's method of convincing a potential buyer that a horse was "spirited"?

They used to put ginger in/on/around the a*** to get the tail to go up?

I am NOT recommending the practise but just wondered if it went on in the dog world?

Gosh, you have made my eyes water, is it tried on dog, not my dogs it isn't.

Thinking about it I recon it would cause an extended bum hold parade around the ring :)

Oooh, ouch - it's making my eyes water as well, just thinking about it!

Ouch!

If it didn't it probably will now with those people who care more about winning than they do about their dogs :(

I imagine the dog may get a bit upset about having its rear end examined though

Sorry I did not mean it to come out as an "idea" :(  fingers engaged before brain!

However, now you mention it, of course horses do not need "examining" and so what worked for them probably would have unfortunate consequences in the dog ring.

I've heard that before about horses too, apparently thats where the expression to do something 'gingerly' comes from, i.e. as if you've got ginger stuck up your.....!

You should be able to teach 'tail up' on command using clicker training. :)

LOL, I have been trying for the last year to get the tail down. 

Sally, I do use clicker training, but have been at a loss on how to use it for this, I can't seem to get her to understand that I want the tail down, it is not helped by the fact it only goes up on the move.  How would you train it with a clicker?

Sandra

You need someone to help you, to watch you move the dog and to click if the tail drops even just a little, you treat. Sally I am sure will tell it much better ;)

Just clicking the tail dropping on the move could take a while for the dog to 'get it' because she's doing a whole load of other things at the same time.  I'd start with some 'tail awareness' exercises.  I don't know what breed you have.  Scratching or massaging their back sometimes makes dog's tails do strange things, touching tail or feathering maybe, you'll have to experiment.  It doesn't neccessarily have to go down,  just move, so that she starts to associate the click with her tail.  Maybe the command could be 'tail'  and then you shape it.  'tail up'  'tail down'.  If it only goes up on the move then maybe it would be easier to teach her 'tail up' 'tail down' whilst she is standing.  I once taught a dog to stop wagging his tail but it was easy because he was so waggy.  When he started to connect his tail slowing down with the click he would actually turn around and look at his tail.  Bless.  :D

I'm curious - why would you want to teach a dog to stop wagging its tail? Was it for film work or something where it had to look sad? Otherwise it seems a bit like teaching a child not to smile. :(

It didn't make him look or feel sad because he learned to do it on command for a reward. ;) I'm looking at a dog now that is standing still, listening to something and her tail isn't wagging.  I could easily make any dog stop wagging it's tail by being horrible to it but wouldn't obviously.  Actually the reason I did it was because Ian Dunbar issued the challenge before he returned to the U.S. and if I'd had access to a video camera I would have won. :)

I'm sure I'm being very thick, but I still can't see the point of training something like that. It almost seems (though I'm sure I'm wrong) that you trained it for no other reason than to prove that it could be done, which seems a bit on the control-freaky side to me.

What about if the dog had injured its tail and you needed it to keep it still....................?

Hmm, possibly. But if you were treating it, it is as easy to hold the tail, because surely you don't mean for healing purposes? Having the dog keep its tail still for several days?

JG teaching a dog to wag and to stop wagging his tail is just the same as teaching a dog to beg or shake paws, it servers no purpose but it is an exercise you teach the dog and the dog will enjoy learning. Had one I taught to do a summersault, no point in it at all but the dog thought it was fun to do his party trick.

Fair point. Personally I don't like to see animals doing tricks, whether they're dogs, sealions or elephants, but if it makes dog and owner happy, then I guess it's harmless!
:)

Most dogs enjoy having their minds and bodies occupied, and if you think about it, if they did not want to do it they would walk away or lay down. Think you will accept that I would know if a dog/hound is enjoying the activity they are engaged in, and believe me most love it, if they don't then there is no point in wasting your time. Must say, all the dogs I have ever had would rather learn some thing like doing the weave that learn to walk to heel. Do others find the same thing, walking to heel really seems to go against the dogs natural instinct to forge ahead.

Oh I agree absolutely, Jackie - you're easily experienced enough with dogs to tell whether they're enjoying themselves or not! As for the heel - I feel it's hard for dogs to learn to walk nicely with us because most people (me included) walk too darn slowly for them! A dog's natural comfortable speed is a trot, which means that, with all but the smallest of breeds, a person must be walking very briskly, if not jogging! A dog having to walk at our pace must be like us having to walk at a toddler's pace - really frustrating!

To the dog it was just another trick.  Like sit, give a paw or rollover. He loved to do it. :)

Fair enough.
:)

Can I suggest that if you are training for the ring, you don't use the words "tail down" or "tail up" because that will only draw peoples' attention to your dogs fault!!  It really doesn't matter what word you chose, your dog doesn't know the meaning so "chocolate" or "fizz" will do just as well!

Thanks for your suggestions, I hadn't thought of teaching both the up and the down.  A bit like teaching the bark, to stop the barking I suppose.

Will give it a whirl over the next few days.  She is a Border Collie by the way, very bright and responsive with everything else, we just keep hitting our heads at a brick wall on this one.  I just can't get her to understand what I want.

Sandra

I managed to get my lab to wag her tail nicely for me in the ring by using a clicker, if you follow the link I explained it there. :)

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=260131#pid260131

(sorry, can't do the link right)

Hi Walkhound,

Thanks - I've just read your original post.  I'll have to dig my clicker out of the drawer and give it a go on Willow.   I must admit I never used clicker training on her when she was a pup, but as she's so greedy the clicker might work if treats follow!

To go back to the subject of tricks, my older beagle gives both her paws (separately lol), and sits and begs.   She also does agility.  Many of these obstacles, and tricks, aren't natural occurences in a dogs life and believe me, if she didn't want to do it - she wouldn't.  My husband used to say that teaching tricks to a dog was cruel, but this was only because his old labrador couldn't and hadn't been taught to do any!    Needless to say, he's since changed his mind.

To a clicker trained dog SIT is a trick.  They don't discriminate between what we consider to be essential and what we teach them just for fun. :D

Do you think it would be too late to start training with a clicker then - at 20 months old?

Course not.  Any age is fine to start.

Thanks - I'll give it a go.