I have a 10 month old Skye Terrier who I began showing 2 months ago.  I have never shown a dog before and would appreciate any advice.  She has begun to growl at judges on the table when they are going over/ examing her.  For her first three or four local shows she did absolutely fine, never made a sound on the table and was open and friendly to all including the judges.  Then we took her to an open show about a month ago where she seemed to be spooked by one of the judges.  She was first on the table,standing quietly as usual. The  judge approached from behind and put his hand under her chin as he moved round the side of her to her front.  She actually jumped and snapped at him, leaving us flabbergasted.  Since then, we have tried her in three local open shows and as soon as she is lifted on the table for the judge to examine, she begins to growl and doesn't stop until she is put on the floor off the table. She has growled at one lady and two male judges.  We would really like to nip this in the bud but have no idea at all of the best way to proceed. We are not sure whether to stop showing her for a while or to try and work through this.  We have a show type table at home that she uses and is quiet and calm.  She growls also on the table at ringcraft class.  She is friendly with strangers at shows when she is on her own table.  Is there anything I could try with her?

Hi Val, thanks for the reply.  I have been in touch with her breeder who also shows the breed.  Skye terriers can be a vocal, grumbly sort of natured anyway, but she has never had one that growls at judges on the show table.  I am at a bit of a loss really.

Sounds like its started due to the judge that startled him . Some judges can just appear from nowhere in a dogs point of view while others will speak to the dog and let him have a sniff of the hand to put it at its ease. Have you tried getting friends to go over him at home ? If so , is he the same then??

Yes, I have had several friends and strangers go over her at home and she is quiet then.  As a rule she is a happy friendly dog on her own table, floor, benches, with most people.  It just appears to be any table in a showring.

Maybe shes just feeling a bit unsure at it all then when in the ring? Or maybe she could be picking up vibes from yourself , perhaps ??? If youre feeling worried about it happening in the ring she may be able to sense it ? Just a thought

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I think you might be right on both counts.  The dog is unsure, and my daughter who has never handled before is petrified of her doing it again.  I know they say the handlers' mood is transmitted down the lead and my daughter is trying to stay calm, but its very difficult.  I am worried that if we give the puppy a break, she may never show, but everytime she growls it gets more upsetting, not least because the dog is obviously uncomfortable.

Does she growl at ringcraft or is it just in the ring ?
I do know a Staffy that suddenly started to growl at the judges when in the ring- they eventually had to stop showing him after being sent out the ring once. He used to then growl at people he knew when they tried to go over him as well though. But he was older than your dog -so persevere with friends  going over him or people at ringcraft who your dog isnt familiar with
Good luck :)

Yes, I am worried that might happen to her.  Sometimes she grumbles very quietly on the table at ringcraft. The noise cannot be heard unless you have sharp hearing, but its obvious enough because you can feel the vibration when going over her.  Other times she is completely quite on the table at class.  But in the showring she isn't grumbling, she is growling which is very noticeable.  I guess I needed someone to say perserve, because it is a bit disheartning for us as first timers.  Thanks for your encouragement.

In addition to the advice already given - you might find some Rescue Remedy helpful for both your daughter and the dog :)

Hi, thanks for your reply, what do you mean by 'Rescue Remedy'?
Christine

Rescue Remedy - Brandy with a bit of herbs in it.  You could try it without the herby bit, I rarely growl when I've had a brandy :D

Nor do I :)  Willing to try anything humane, even sozzling myself and the dog if it helps :D
Christine

Bach Rescue Remedy - it's a little bit more than a few herbs in brandy ;)  It's flower essences preserved in brandy - nobody seems to know how it works - but it does - even on animals, so there must be more to it than a placebo effect.  4 drops a day in the dogs water, and 4 drops on your daughters tongue.  The dogs can be given it each day leading up to the show.  There are a variety of other essences all aimed at different things, but RR is a wonderful stand by for most things - also works for driving test nerves ;)

If you're in the UK you should find it in Holland and Barret or Boots, some branches of tesco also stock it - it's in a dropper bottle in a yellow box - also available as a cream, suitable for injuries..

That sounds brilliant, thanks for that.  I will definately try some. I will visit holland& barret in the morning.  I will let you know how both of them go on with it.  Many thanks.
Christine

Dear signconfused i can recommend the Rescue Remedy I give it to my 17 year old whippet who used to cry all night she is great since I started using Rescue
Cath

Thanks cath, do you use the drops or the spray? Do you use it everyday in her water?
Christine

We seem to have two threads here so I'll stick it on both.  Probably get into trouble.

The judge that took her by surprise obviously frightened her because of her reaction.  Some dogs would have been unaffected but some will learn from a single frightening experience to become defensive in a similar situation, especially if the escape option isn't open to them. 
Dogs growl when they are uncomfortable.   If nothing bad ever happens again and nobody reacts to the growl then she may just be fine but there is also a possibility that her growl meant  "Stop this or I may have to bite you because I am in fear for my life" in which case ignoring it would be silly. :(   If she was mine I would take her to a show a few times but not put her in the ring and then when her confidence returns set her up on someone else's table at a show with a volunteer judge.

Thanks Sally, that sounds a great idea.  It makes sense that its the 'no option to escape' that seems to have been set up in her mind.  When she is at a show on her own table at the side, she is fine all day. Its just the showring, stranger and no way of escape.  I will certainly try taking her without showing to see if we can get us back on track.  She had such a promising start, I think its a shame not to try.

Could you maybe try having her at a show and ask some 'stangers' to go over her, while you give her a treat or two to make it a more pleasant experience.  Maybe try on her own table at first, then maybe someone else would let you try on their table - gradually build up (if she stops growling), giving treats every so often, until perhaps she will associate the experience with good things.  She's at the same sort of age when my dog didn't like people looking at her teeth.  I treated her everytime I did it at home and worked up from there.

Fiona

Hi Fiona, thanks for your reply, thats another great idea.  I have asked one or two people at shows if they would mind touching her, sometimes they seem more nervous than her!  When I say she is a bit growly on the table and we are trying to get her used to it, some people look at me gone out and move away, but most seem to nervously touch her.  I think the dog then feels their nerves.  I am a shy person myself and I have to really push myself to ask people anyway.  Having said that, two people at our last show managed to go over her in much the same way as a judge would with hardly any fuss from the dog.  I think it is a thing we need to keep doing despite our tendancy to hide away instead.  I like the idea of borrowing someones' table and trying it there, I must be more outgoing, I am sure people will help if I ask.
Christine

where abouts are you ?
if you lived anywhere near me i would be willing to help you out. If you are no where near me have you got a ringcraft club that would help you out
Carol

Hi Carol, I live near Nottingham.  We go to a ringcraft class every other tuesday night, our puppy started there at 5 months.  Sometimes she growls on their table, but not always.  We have had male and female people handle her and she doesn't discriminate, she growls at both! She was such a little star to begin with as well and is great at home.
Christine

She wasnt bred in Devon was she??? ;)

Hi sam, no she wasn't, she came from middle england, why do you ask?

When she growls what do you do?
Archer

Hi Archer, we have tried several things.  We have tried soothing words, or a sharp no, we have tried treats given before the examination, thoughout the examination, and together with lots of praise after the examination.  We have tried ignoring the growling and being very encouraging by talking to her in a happy light tone.  At home, she is no problem, but none seem to work in the show ring.
Christine

Consistancy is the key to most training situations - at the moment she doesn't know *how* you're going to behave - which doesn't help (particularly the 'no' if she's doing it out of fear - as others have said - if she stops growling, she may go straight for using her teeth :( )

Yes, I see what you mean.  Perhaps ignoring the growling would be the best thing, giving her treats and keeping our response constant, like we are not making a big deal out of it?

I have had good results with something called "showoff" I used it on my male when he was a puppy and a bit nervous, its similar to the rescue remedy.  Details can be found in the dog newspapers.

Does she growl when being examined on the floor or only on the table?

This may give you a clue to the reason behind her being uncomfortable.

If the growling ONLY occurs on the table then I think you have the answer. If she feels uncomfortable on the table then chastising her for feeling this way is hardly going to help.................................  just as it would not make me feel less uneasy if I was told it was unacceptable for being afraid of heights...............................

Yes, I see your point, its difficult for me to be logical when, a wasp comes my way! She doesn't normally growl when on the floor, although there have been exceptions with one or two strangers.  If she is on the floor and seems uncomfortable, I can gentle say 'nooooo its alright' and she is quickly convinced.  Likewise, at home on her own table, she is quickly convinced by kind words and titbits. But saying 'no' or 'be quiet' or 'good girl, its ok' or giving treats when a judge goes over her on the table at a show, just seems to make her growl louder.  It like she is saying, 'you are wrong, this is not alright at all'.  If I ignore her when she growls on the table, she continues to growl but it doesn't get louder.

Don't forget that, if you say "Good girl" or give her a titbit when she's growling you are rewarding the very behaviour you want to stop ... ;)

Yes, I suppose I am, do you think it would be better to say and do and say nothing when she growls, but praise and titbits if she stops growling and becomes quiet?  If I say 'no' too sharply, she may progress to biting instead, but if I say 'good girl' or give titbits she thinks I am saying its good to growl.

If I were in your shoes I would stop showing her etc altogether for a while, you don't want to get chucked out of the ring....................

No tohme, I don't that is true.  I am seriously considering stopping for a while.  I am not sure if I stopped now and tried again later she would be even more worried.  But I could stop showing her, take her to shows (without being shown, just for the atmosphere) and concentrate on ringcraft classes until she gets more confident again. 

I've been told of 2 different ways of dealing with a behavioural problem that has potentially been caused by a scare/fright.  One was to overdose the dog with what made it scared, so in your case that would be getting a long line of people to go over your dog one by one whilst she is on the table, and also one after each other, so you would have to line up say 20 different confident people.  Think this was called Saturation Aversion Therapy or something like that.  Think it is very important that whoever goes over your dog is confident, infact I'd say that was essential. :-)

The other way is to take your dog away from whatever scared it.  So yes I guess you could still take her to shows for the socialisation but don't stand her on a table or floor and get folk to go over her.  Apparently the longer your dog is away from what was scaring it the more likely it is that they will forget all about it.  :-)

Two completely different methods here and I reckon it would be trial and error to find which one works best for your dog.  Perhaps someone on here with more experience than myself can expand on what I'm trying to say :-)

Hi Claire, I think flooding her with confident people would be the quickest and easiest way.  Thats if I could find a lot of confident people who knew how to go over the puppy who were also strangers to her.  I am a bit worried about stopping going to shows completely, dogs do have a memory and goodness knows how long it would take her to forget if at all.  On the other hand, I can't risk putting her on show tables the way she is.

I'd be very careful with flooding her once it's done it can't be undone. I'm pretty sure that many people on here wouldn't recommend it. My Beardie got a fright at a show at 11 months and he really has never got over it he's still wary of lots of things but I can't imagine flooding him with men would do any good It was a man coming up behind him and grabbing him that did the damage
                                                 Anne

So how have you dealt with it Anne.  A man judge came up behind my dog too and spooked her, thats why she started growling in the first place.  Have you managed to continue you show your Beardie?
Christine

I must admit that he is still wary of men but is perfectly fine with women. Also to be truthful I don't show much mainly doing obedience and he has been fine with male judges there but they don't have to touch him. The reason I would be wary of flooding was that our incident happened at Discover Dogs at Crufts on the 1st day and we were back again the next day in the Good Citizen Display ring. I think with hind sight that the train journey down and back the 2 days at Crufts and the hotel was just all too much. Thing is he was such a confident outgoing boy until then that I really thougt he'd love it. I tend to take him places and sit near men, explaining why, but ask them to ignore him totally. He sems to take likings to certain men and if he approaches them I give masses of praise just ignore when he doesn't. I must admit I'm not that bothered about showing but do feel sorry for him and also wish I could go back and change things. Can't believe I was so stupid as to forget they can go through a fear stage at just the age he was at. Cava doesn't growl but would bolt in a panic if pushed. I give him homeopathic remedies before shows and find that they do help.
                                             Anne

Thanks Anne. Somebody told me that a lot of dog showing people will not show puppies, because they are so easily spooked like ours were.  Its a shame really because, having never shown any dog before, we are really green.  Our puppy is friendly and outgoing, not at all the quiet reserved type that is typical of her breed.  She lives with a Westie and knows she is 'bottom dog'. We knew of other puppies showing and never thought we might have a problem, so speaks the voice of inexperience! Its certainly going to be very difficult to gain her confidence again, and she may always be easily upset, but we are going to have an inexperienced try at getting her quiet.  If not, we can always change tack and try obedience like you.  I have bought some Rescue Remedy that I hope may help, and am also on the look out for 'Showoff'

Thanks she, I will look for showoff too. Have got some Rescue Remedy today, and hope it helps.