I would like to talk to people who have experience of belgian shepherds. I have a 3 year old one called Taz who is giving me a number of problems. These include dog aggression and destructive behaviour.

Hi,
Just out of curiosity, exactly which type do you have? Belgian Shepherd can be considered a blanket term referring to any of the following Belgian dog breeds: Groenendael, Laekenois, Malinois, or Tervueren.

In 1994, the BKC classified all 4 into a single breed, despite condemnation from UK breeders. I think all have their own personalities and cannot be really lumped into a single category. But that's my humble opinion. It might help others to give some advice, though.

toodles

The KC have seen the error of their ways, and we are back to four bvreeds, with CCs for Groens and Tervs, and Malinois and Lakenois being rare breed status! For the malinois that won CCs it is a shame, but the prefered course for the breed enthusiasts over being lumped together.

Thanks for clarifying that. I'm glad that things improved. I guess my books are out of date a little bit. BTW, not being in showing or anything like that, exactly what does "CC" stand for? Just curious and will permanently tuck it into my "trivia" section of my brain ;-)
toodles

CC is short for Challenge Certificate. In the UK a dog or bitch must win 3 CCs under 3 different judges, and one at least must be over the age of 12 months, (If a puppy gets 3 or more CCs it won't be a Champion until it gets one as an adult).

The KC awards different numbers of sets (one for best dog and best bitch) of CCs for different breeds. It is based on the popularity of the breed, numbers shown and bred. In my breed we have 18 sets per year (only 16 last year due to Foot and Mouth). At a Championship show there will be at least 5 classes per sex, the winners of each of these 'challenge' for the CC (a judge may choose to not award if quality of exhibits is low). A reserve CC is awarded (or not) to the second best dog or bitch that is also in the judges opinion of such outstanding merit to be awarded the title of champion. The reserves can sometimes become the real thing if the CC winner should be disqualified!

Unlike some other countries in UK the champions continue to compete for the CCs, so a CC win means that you are the best of your sex (in that judges opinion) and not just best of the non champions! This is why you will hear of the term breed recors holder, which mens the highest number of CCs won by any dog of that breed, In mine I think the record is 43 or 34, Jackie H may know :D

There were 6 Elkhounds that became champions last year, and looking over last 15 years one year there were only 2 and another there were 10, but on average there are 6 new Champions a year (that is altogether, dogs and bitches). It is said that we have the hardestr system to make up a Champion in the world, so the tiltle is more meaningful!

So not all breeds can make up Chmpions in Britain. there are even a number of quite strong breeds, like the Malamute that do not have them!

Thank you very much for the excellent in-depth explanation. I have a feeling that I'll have better sense of the BKC practises versus the AKC if I ever get into showing. Well, if I ever live in UK, I have a feeling that I'd end up in it anyway thanks to you lot ;-) :D I'll keep your posting in my email box, so I can refer back to it anytime & refresh my memory.

Unfortunately, this really got off the subject of the original poster Oops. :o
toodles

it stands for challenge certificate, where on being awarded the third the dog becomes a champ. Oh here to dreamimg anyway! :p

The dog I cut my teeth on (my first dog) was a Groenendael bitch, she sure taught me a lot! They are a very sensitive, but also strong willed at times, this presents some challenges in training. On one hand they need confidence boosting, and you to be very matter of fact about the world 9seem to be the sort of dog that develops phobias), on th other hand you need to stay in charge!

Sadly my bitch died at only 3 1/2 from a brain haemorage, after one of her escapologist stunts!

Hi I own a working bred Malinois bitch. All the advice I have been given is that if you let these dogs get away with bad behaviour as a youngster then it will be 10 times worse as an adult.

These are not dogs you can pussyfoot around, they do need an owner who is prepaired to say "NO" and not one of those who thinks all problems can be sorted with operant conditioning and a block of cheese.

Here I go again, being contoversial.

Ian

>>Here I go again, being contoversial.

Then I must be controversial too ......because I totally agree with you :-)

HI there Katho

Wheee, a question about BSd's - I think there's only been maybe one or two over the last year!!

I am absolutely besotted with the breed - i obtained my first bitch (Tervueren) in 1985:) :) :), (American lines) closely followed by a male :) :) :) and have recently bought a pup (well heck she is a year old nearly - where does time go!!!) She is of Continental breeding but does go back to the old lines - I waited a year to get her and it was well worth it. I'm hoping to do working trials with her, when she's turned 18 months, and we are also doing agility ( but very tiny jumps, more about control and direction at the mo because of her baby joints..:) )

I need to be gagged when talking about BSd's because I could go on all day and still not run out of steam!!!

My first bitch was closely related to Starbright Bonne Chance who was a Schutzhund 1, narcotics etc, Police Dog 1 plus others ( American) and was the sweetest, bravest and most biddable dog i have ever owned.

LLike all dogs TErvs/bsd's do need leadership, but I do use lots of cheese ( much of which ends up in my mouth LOL!! We've just discovered "Economy" cheese which is amazingly gorgeous - and i thought i was a Pilgrim's Choice sort of girl :D ).

Anyway, if you think i can help ..... you can email me privately if you like, (click on my name at the top of this post); i don't bite honest :D

Best wishes
Lindsay

Thankyou for your replys. Taz is a groen. He is 3 years old and does need strong handling. I have taken him to a number of dog classes but because of the dog aggression thing I havent taken him to agility (I do take my other dog a border collie bitch). Other dogs are very aggressive towards him (even when he was a young pup) though he has never been attacked (some close calls though), he is now aggressive to all other dogs. He never gets the chance to attack as I keep him on a lead near others. Two days ago I bought him a muzzzle. He is quite happy about wearing it but confused that he cant pick stuff up to carry. im hoping to walk him with non aggressive dogs now. My hope is eventually he will be able to play with others. I never realised how stressful walking him was until I muzzled him I now enjoy walking him again. I am more relaxed and so is he.
Taz is very obedient he does what he is told straight away, the only problem is that he seems to have a 5 second memory and you have to repeat the command again. Any one else notice this with bsd's.

HI! Katho
I to went to a obedience club when I was a teenager very "scary" I was young with a large dog.
He to was attacked by another [dog ]& it all seemed pointless,he became aggresive towards other dogs always watching his back.
But what I personally learnt about dogs & behaviour can't be taken away
I think I benifeted from the experiance
couldn't live without them

karl

Hi CLIMBER
I agree I have been to many different dog classes. All dogs are different so it is good to learn as many different solutions to different problems. This is a reason why this site is so good.