I have two German ponter puppies(male 8 mths, female 6 mths), and have a problem with the elder who has started barking in the evening almost constantly,  between around 7-9pm. Both puppies get a good amount of attention and exercise,  individually and together so i dont think he is bored, but am aware he is going through his adolescence. I have just bought an aboistop squirter collar to see if it can distract him or calm him down, but would like to know if anyone has had any experience with these before i use it. Many thanks.

What is the objective to using the collar?  How are you going to avoid one getting squirted and not the other, how are you going to avoid one triggering the bark and the other getting the squirt?  if he is barking because he is uncomfortable about something do you think that using a collar will increase or decrease this feeling?  What will he do to fill the void caused by not barking?

You can get remote controlled collars that do the same thing, so every time the dog barks you press the button straight away.....dunno if this is what you have?

First thing to ask is why do they bark between 7 and 9, is that when you withdraw your attention. If they are OK all day there must be a reason and it would be best to tackle that before thinking of using a collar.

The object of using the collar is to stop the constant barking while he is playing with his ball. He is not lacking in attention nor is he exercise. I considered using such a collar, because it is the elder dog predominantly that barks, and not the younger, who is usually curled up on my partners lap by 6. He is not uncomfortable about anything, just very excited, which i have no problem with and fully expected when i bought him. I am simply concerned that if i dont try and curb what i feel is excessive barking, he may consider it to be ok. I am hoping to sort out a minor problem with what is otherwise a much loved, fantastic, well trained dog.
My purpose in posting this message was to get peoples opinion on these collars, and some advice on best ways to use them.

NB77 think you have answered your own question, do not allow lap sitting and calm the whole thing down. Having 2 pups at the same time is alway going to throw up problems and the collars are very good but not suitable IMO in this situation.

Thanks for your opinion. I dont want to use the collar until it is absolutely necessary, so i will alter there routine a little, as well as wrenching the little one of my partners knee and into her bed.

There are other ways of eliminating barking which do not involve spray collars.  The simple cause and effect consequences you will get with a collar can be more positively established with the removal of the ball!

You say they are getting a good amount of attention and exercise.  Does this mean that 7 - 9 in the evening is when that attention stops?  Maybe that is the reason. 

OK, I'll enter the fray - I recently bought an Aboistop collar for my younger bitch, who quite simply LOVES to bark.  All other ways of stopping her that I could think of have been tried, but she is just a gobby dog :D  As I have a partner who works shifts and often comes in at the early hours of the morning, this was not acceptable either to us or our our neighbours.

Within five minutes of having the Aboistop collar, she really does not bark when she has it on, either in the house or outside.  She still runs around enjoying herself on her walks, and she has found a way to 'communicate' in mumbles and woofs, rather than her usual excited high pitched shriek .... with her tail still wagging nineteen to the dozen, of course.

I love it and would highly recommend it - and if that makes me a bad owner, then to be honest I can live with it ;)

M.

I don't think anyone has said that using these collars is equivalent to being a bad owner or that there is no use for them.  The key word that is required whenever one is considering any course of action is "appropriate", whether that be followed by time, dog, use, equipment etc etc.  Aboistop collars may well be appropriate in certain circumstances but, like everything else, not all.

Sorry, was being flippant!  I do not consider myself to be a bad owner at all, and am perfectly happy that this has been a sensible solution for my dog, which she is not traumatised by.

M.

Tohme (or anyone else!), how does the collar work? I know it sprays when the dog barks, but how does it 'know' that the dog is barking? Is it through the vibration of the throat (so the collar would have to be snug-fitting) or is there some way it registers the sound? Their website doesn't make it clear.

It registers the sound, as it will activate even if the dog is not wearing it.

M.

So it'll spray when another dog barks then?

Yep - but luckily her Mum is not a barker.  (Except when the postman gets out of his van in the morning :rolleyes: but that one's easy, I just bring her into the house.)

I imagine that, unless the owner is extremely careful, the 'barker' could get very confused and worried at being sprayed when it was sitting quietly minding its own business!

Just to clarify, the bark would have to be quite near the collar to activate it (or my dog's one has certainly never gone off in any other way), but the dog doesn't actually have to be wearing it.

You can see the spray come out, and it doesn't actually go up the nose - but then, my dog's a bit like a womble really, a lot of nose!!

Would agree with what tohme says about some dogs being savvy and knowing they can empty them and then carry on, a friend has one of these - and that's when he hasn't managed to turn it upside down so it doesn't work at all.

However, in my circumstances, I still have a perfectly happy and very exuberant dog, but a much quieter one.  It obviously wouldn't suit all, but it has been an absolute charm for me.

M.

It 'can' spray when another dog barks, but it would have to be relatively close.

I have one - and it is fantastic.  It was a last resort.  I also now have the remote ones.  The anti-bark I used to keep her from barking in the house.  We had exhausted all other methods first.  This one worked and it's great.  We're now using the remote one for out on walks with both dogs because I don't want another one to set it off.  We also use them at agility where one dog gets overexcited while the other dog is being run.

If used correctly they are wonderful (both the anti-bark and ther remote style).

Wendy

There are various collars on the market which vary in sensitivity and control depending on the price!  The best ones are only triggered by the dog wearing it barking the cheapest are triggered by any sound made perhaps, by a companion dog!

I think that they can be very useful in certain circumstances but I do not view them as a cure all for all dogs in all situations.

I used to have a dog that could bark for England and once had to open and close a car door 47 times before he was quiet and THEN I opened the back!

To use one on him would have been counter productive as he was a very "stressed" dog.

Some dogs are very savvy and bark like billyo to empty the reservoir so that they can then bark all day with impunity.

Having citronella/mustard up your nose must be pretty noxious; I am not going to even discuss the ones that give shocks!

The aboistop collar can be very effective but I agree with tohme it is not always appropriate.  Perhaps for the dog that just likes the sound of it's own voice.  They can be set off by another dog barking and can also go off when the dog wearing it shakes or scratches which they are prone to do when they have something different around their neck.  Mobile phones also seem to effect them, I have no idea why but they will set off if you put them down near your mobile.

I know people who use them very successfully, however, it has always been as a last resort and not a first one :)

I was tempted a year ago when my dog was barking all the time at agility, but the instructor knew it wasn't really me and she was right, and i was relieved; however another lady owner has been supported by the same instructor and is very happy and her dogs are also happy as she uses it very fairly and carefully.

Just a cautionary note; a friend tried to use one on her goldie who barked in the garden, and he ran into his bed shaking like a leaf for 10 minutes and was nervy for the rest of the day.

I would agree, it would be a good idea to try to solve the barking/ball problem... ie if the dog barks for it to be thrown, put it away for a few mintues and never throw it whenthe dog barks....that sort of thing..... :)

Lindsay

It was suggested that I use a remote control model to solve my Beardie running daft. As he is scared of sprays I wouldn't do it. Just worked round/through it :-)

I was going to ask, do the Aboistop collars stain the coat?  I have a very very vocal Samoyed (any other Sammie owners will know what I mean!) that whenever I walk her she will bark all the time.  I was thinking about one a few months back but seeing as she has a white coat I wasn't sure if they stain or not. 

Thanks

I have an ultra sonic anti bark collar that emits just a buzz (noise not shock) when the dog barks worked wonders and all I have to do is pick it up and show her now and she stops.

It didn't work on my friends dog!!

I think I might be the other lady owner that Lindsay is talking about:D  As I said in a previous post it was used as a last resort, supported by the trainer, but only as a last resort.  We worked really hard to curb the barking in all kinds of situations and it did work to a point, but we needed it to get over the last hurdle.

Just to address a couple of other questions/points raised.  I was VERY wary of using it on my younger girl because she is afraid of 'wind' type noises, but I recently got to the point that she was winding up other dogs barking at them and challenging them to play.  I was worried that it was going to get her (and me) in trouble so I figured I would try the remote.  She actually responded really well.  I use the shortest spray on the remote, just enough to distract her.  I've now started to use it to keep her from digging.  She'll start and I'll give a short spray and she'll look at the ground puzzled, like why did it spray her, and then stop.  So even on my girl who was a 'fraidy cat' it has worked well.  This is NOT to say it is right for all dogs and all situations.  I think, as with any tool, you need to know your dog, and the situation and see if it will work.  Some dogs respond well, others don't.  That's why I would suggest borrowing or renting one before buying.

As for staining, the spray is a clear gas so it doesn't stain the coat in my experience.

Wendy

I never even considered  or heard  of a citronella collar till i came here last year to found  our small sanctuary,and though we only have one  near  neighbour I didnt want her disturbed by constant barking. so when we got some very barky dogs i sent for one they are fantastic we ended up we have five collars  ( as have five rescue kennels)if we have barkers in they wear a collar simple as that and apart from maybe 2 out of a  say nearly 200  only two failures were they didnt work on them.
yes another dog barking nearby can trigger them off but mainly they dont they are worth every penny they cost and i would recommend them highly.

But have you observed any other stress related behavious Mattie, such as kennel pacing, chewing, or self harm in lieu of barking???????????  Or aren't you so worried about these because they don't bother the neighbours?

Im sorry  digger what do you mean ? I just said that i use the citronella colars for barking and they work I dont  (luckily) see any stress caused as you describe  as the dogs arent usually here long before homing and we have facilities like large runs and free running for our rescues and human company here all the time we are now getting volunteer dog walkers as well so our rescues are rarely stressed.
I have however dealt with dogs who have spent up to 10 hours a day locked in small kitchens and they have lick granulomas etc... caused through stress 
also im lucky in that I only have one close neighbour but if one dog starts constantly barking they all do and the noise carries and also I dont particularly like yapping dogs much myself I belive dogs get in the habit of barking and if it can be controlled  by a quick  spray of citronella then  Ill use it

Hello all I will just add my two pence worth.  I think if a person is careful gets the right collar looks after there dog and makes sure no damage is being done to it either mentally or physically then I see no harm.  HOWEVER  yesterday in the park I saw a man with two gorgeous GSd pups 1male 1 female from the same litter who were 13 weeks old,  I was chatting to him and he told me because they barked a lot during the day when he was out (hes only had them 4 weeks) he is going to get them electric shock anti bark collars and leave them on all day until their adulthood.  Now i thought he made a mistake  in what he was saying thinking citronella collars and training them.  He  assured me though that he has had GSDs for 15 years and know the best ways of training them  he did admit tyhough that he had to let his last one go at 8 months beacuse it was so nervy and aggressive to everyone but he replaced within a week with these two.  I pity those poor pups and I hate what there fate must be.   By the way the lady he gort them from lives on a farm in dorset near to me and when he went to choose them had another 25 pups ready to go all gsds without papers but he was assured champiopn parents because he saw there pedigrees and as he boasted all in red.  I felt like telling him i also could  give him a champion gsd pedigree for my pet goldfish all it would take is a blank form and a computer. 

Since i posted this message a couple of weeks ago, i suppose i should say how i got on. I did in the end reluctantly use an aboistop collar, and only then when it was absolutely necessary. I must say that it worked very well, and caused my dog no discomfort whatsoever. Im not saying they would work for everyone, but if someone finds themselves in a similar situation to what i was in when i posted the original message, i would certainly recommend they try such a collar.

Nb77 - and what symptoms of discomfort would you hav been looking out for??

I notice that you have sent a lot of posts to cd, so can only summarise that you are not being inquisitive(sincere apologies if you are), but condescending. Anyway, he didnt show any obvious physical discomfort at the spray of water when he barked(a vet verified he wouldnt suffer any physical discomfort). He wasnt so scared he hid away with his tail between his legs, or urinated uncontrollably, and apart from being to busy wondering what the spray of water is, on the rare occasions i choose to use the collar, that he forgets what he is barking at, he is exactly the same dog as he was when i posted my genuine enquiry for advice.

If you don't ask - you don't know............

"He  assured me though that he has had GSDs for 15 years and know the best ways of training them"

Comments like that do amuse me. My mum has been driving for over 30 years, but she still can't reverse park! ;-)

:D :D :D

Hi there Wendy

Yes it was you ;)

Lindsay :)

By all means if you want to use a citronella spary collar do so, but, dont be taken in by the sales speil about kind and safety etc.
Citronella spray goes into the air and vapours and droplets go into the eyes, if you go to google and type in citronella hazard eyes you will come up with loads of reports on it being hazardous to the eyes and skin.
In many ways common sense dictates that an irritant such as this can damage eyes.

The Master plus is worst of the two as the dog migh run into it or wind blow it and there is quite a big spray with master plus.The master plus works soleley by frightening the dog, if it does not frighten the dog it will not work.
Anyone watching the video will see a Belgian Shepherd and Samoyed, ears down tail betwen their legs just fleeing, they could run anywhere, including away from home,there is no beating photographic evidence.

They are the mild ones on the video, wait until you come to a German wired haired pointer cocking its leg against a car. Its tail wraps right under its rear end, its body literaly doubles with fear as it tries to escape, cringing behind its owner and pulling like crazy on the lead trying to escape.

I find it surprising that just because many behaviourists say it is ok and the name Roger Mugford is behind it people find frightenin a dog acceptable. Someone on this board was experimenting with an Abistop and her dog jumped into a stable door when it went off, thats on top of the eye hazard it caused to the dog.

With these reactions fear lodges in the short term memory and the dog can become frightend of the slightest noise.Those are the facts and if it helps people form an opinion then this has helped in decision making, but dont forget to try the google search on citronel eye hazards and if you want to see photographic evidence of fear and panic reactions ask anyone who has one to lend you their video....no fear...no work!!