Cats - how to stop chasing em. With Morses hunting instincts I cant risk him catching up to one, and now hes controlled for rabbits the cats have become prey items. No cat owner should have to see their pet fleeing for its life before the mottled menace, and I dont want him injured through cornering a cat either.

Tried so far - keep him on a long line and prevent chasing the item, use Gone Away to move him on instead of focusing on object

                     - stop him fence running cats by only letting him in garden with something to do and calling him to do something else when cats are seen ( difficult)

                     - relentless recall training, reinforcing down when out and mostly succeeding but its difficult to proof and not letting him go self employed by playing/training as much as possible

Trainer has suggested training discs, but I dont want my carefully shaped retrieve going pear shaped and both of us would rather have another solution.

Well you could try a sort of desensitisation procedure.

You wuld need either a stooge cat or a very realiztic model tho' or have a cat that he can see but not get to

It's a bit like getting a dog used to horses etc

You keep your dog on lead & approach the cat whilst he is not reacting you praise & reward him. If he reacts you stop & back away. You will the have some idea of the distance at which he starts to react.

You can then repeat & as you are getting to the reaction distance increase the praise & heel commands & before you hit the reaction distance turn away & praise & treat.

Gradually get closer to to reaction distance & if he does not react go slightly closer than the distance & if there is still no reaction praise & treat & stop for the day

On the other hand if you know anyone who has Main Coon or similar very large laid back dog proof cats they could be used.

My late cats were all dog proof & never ran from any dog(one even used to chase dogs if they ran up to him)so I never had a problem with my dogs chasing cats(even ones that were cat chasers when I got them)

If you lived near enough I'd invite you over to meet my cats. :D  They are all pretty dog proof.

I was going to say that Sally, my cats are dog proof.  You really need a cat that isnt going to run, dogs who arent used to being around dog friendly cats dont know what to do with themselves when a cat doesnt turn tail and run :D :D  My cats have the neighbour hood dogs totally wound up when they are out walking, and they dont care about trotting in to the garden of the Staff down the road

Good luck with your mission anyway :)

Hi
I don't really have any advice, because my dog, Luna, and my friend's dog, Bella, doesn't chase cats outside. Its more birds. Oh and a couple of weeks ago Luna almost caught a squirrel! Yikes - she just shut of her hearing and kept chasing the poor thing. At last the squirrel ran into a fenced footballfield and escaped! pheww. I wouldn't know what to do if she caught it!

Sorry back to the cat business.I have a cat, and had a kitten for about 5 months and then of course Luna a choc lab 1 year old now. I had to give the kitten up for adoption at Easter because it kept chasing my old cat (8 years old), and the old cat wouldn't stand up too the kitten but flee.

luna was playing with the kitten, and as you can see on my picture in the bottom they could lie next to eachother and do nothing. It was hard to give him up, because he was so good for Luna, and she really misses him. The big cat don't really want to play with her yet, which Luna is finding hard to understand. But Oliver (the cat) walks around and is not afraid of her OR Bella a GSD bitch turning 1 year may 25. Bella is pretty hyper, but Oliver is just cool and walks past her like she didn't exist! Thats my boy!

Sorry no help, but like someone else suggested, perhaps you could get a stuffed cat oro borrow a dogfriendly cat?

Jeanette

Its a shame that you are at the other end of the country - or I would lend you Buster (the Rasta Cat) and his side-kick Mini-me!

They just STAND there when the Aussies come flying up to them - they refuse to be herded (even when Thor tries a kick nudge/nip) - then when the dogs decide that the cats are just not interesting enough then they roll over!

See if you can find someone local to you who has cats like this - the dogs do soon learn!

Margot

Thanks I will ask at training tonight to find a local a kick ass cat. If not we may hitch down to Margots :D

did  you always have the cat when your dog was a tiny puppy?  usually if that is the case, they grow so used to each other.  i guess i would do what someone above said....to keep your dog on a leash and go gradually nearer and nearer to the the cat.  when the dog is sweet, give it a treat or a "good dog".  when it begins to show signs of aggression, pull back and say "no".  the dog should catch on soon enough. 

Hi

I had Oliver (the cat) before I got Luna. But Oliver is old, so he's a bit slow getting used to Luna. But its coming along slow but steady. Right now he's lying on my floor enjoying the sun with Luna sitting on her piedestal (a footstool standing in front of the window so she can sit and look out the window)

Jeanette

Start hitchin - we'll be half way at Stafford (Birmingham Champ Show) on Sunday - if you can get there by then, we'll give you a lift the rest of the way :D :D :D

Margot

My dogs are bomb proof round my cat (and vice versa) BUT will still chase any other cat if allowed :( I don't allow, but they will still do it if I don't see them first. I've just had to work on their recall and 'leave' commands. They usually work. It depends on how big the cat is ;) Just joking. :D

Most cats will run when they see a dog, and most dogs will chase if they can. Unfortunately it's one of those things that need time and effort in teaching the dog 'NO - YOU DON'T CHASE THAT'

Hello.

I agree you need a "kick arse" cat.
      I have two cats now elderly and have had Staffords (always) with them. Cleo (cat) will run from the dogs/dog if they catch her unawares or she "forgets" the dog is there when she comes over the fence ;)
Sal will chase her when she does which makes the situation worse, but Sal only tries to lick Cleo then or stops after a cuple of steps but Cleo does not realise this and runs.
     Oscar on the other hands runs from no-one or nothing, never has never will, I don't think.
He is totally against "dogs ruling the world"  Sal runs at him sometimes (especially if we have been on a walk and he's sunbathing in the garden) I am sure she thinks he's a dog and runs full pelt at him 40 odd lb's of Stafford running toward an elderly cat - but he never moves just looks at her and tolerates the licking (while she's looking anyhow he is polite) He has "cured" a few dogs around here in the last 20 odd years of cat chasing - especially in his prime :)
     Oscar also now thinks it "funny" to pat Sal's ball around the garden making her run after it, the thing is today Sal brought the ball back to him, he was sitting on the garden table and she put it on the table he knocked it off - she chased it? Odd animals
Karen 
      

doG sally, you have cats as well?! Meg and ellie have made it their life's mission to terriorise our cats, poor things, so now i have to keep them separate. How do you train a border collie not to bother cats?!

:D :D at the cat training Sal to play ball. No success finding kick ass cat at classes, but a little bird tells me they think my poor little dog is a Mass Murderer :D Trainer feels the only cure is developing greater control with patience and training which is easy for her to say, she's just got a Dobe ! Hey ho, have to get Stinkfoot to wiggle her toy cat in front of him and pay large amounts of compensation to her if he gets it...

Well Lucy I've always had cats and dogs so a new cat is joining dogs that are used to cats and a new dog is joining cats that are used to dogs.  Mittens demands (and gets) a lot of respect from the dogs.  Bounty likes a laugh.  He has been known to hide in the agility tunnel and lie in wait for an unsuspecting collie.

Hi Sally

I think my cats must be related to yours - 2 of ours do that.  Best of all is when they sunbathe along the top of the 'A' frame and refuse to budge even when the dogs are working the course!!  They have even been seen (and video'd) doing the course themselves but they are useless at the long jump, they usually end up in a heap on top of the jumps - priceless every one of them.

Until last year I've always had at least one cat & had border collies since 1970(my first GSD was in 1957)

As puppies my BC's have always tried to herd the cats, but as my cats have always been dog proof the did not react & so the novety wore off.

One of my BC's(my first a bitch)even came into milk to rear an abandoned kitten(she had never had puppies), this cat grew up thinking BC & even when a pack of 7 Jack Russells cornered him in my front garden he did not flee(he had been asleep in the corner)but when o the attack  when a neighbours siamese joined him in the garden. These dogs had roamed the neighbourhood killing/maiming cats & other small dogs for six months. the JR's never chased a cat or dog again in fact they rarely ventured out of their owners garden again

If cats & dogs are brought up together correctly whatever breed they may never be best mates but they can live together & the dogs learn their place ;) My last cat used to push the dogs off their food dishes to steal the meat, that included my GSDs & they simply stepped aside, even now if my dogs see a cat they make cautious but friendly approaches even if the cat is hissing & spitting  :O

Cats must always have a place to get away upwards(part of the cats behavioural needs)

Its much the same her the house somehow wouldn't feel right without a cat and my collies all respect Lily. The pup is being taught by Lily herself that there is no reward in trying to herd play or chase she is just not co-operating but never needs to strike out to make her point. :)

Mmm

Is Morse a bit of a wimp, or would a fight get him excited?

The reason i ask, is an ass kicking cat will probably make him think twice if he is of the wimpy persuasion..... however if its likely to get him going, then it could well make him worse!

Id lend you mine, he is very smart, knows exactly when to keep still and ignore the dog, but will sometimes have a bit of a wrestle which can be scary when he tries it on the new dog!

Ive found in most working lurchers, the fact that they ARE allowed to chase and kill somethings, means they are much more responsive when told not to chase something else.
That might sound a bit backwards, but try talking to someone who does the obediance/worky bit of lurcher showing..... they have to be able to get the dog to ignore one 'rabbit' and chase and retrieve another, so it is perfectly do-able.

I think trying to tell Morse, that 'you are NEVER allowed to chase' is probably not going to work , and 'you can chase when i say so' probably will, but it does depend on how well he responds to training..... Abby, even though she has been here a few weeks, has got the hang of 'chase what i say'...... she was previously a dog used for fox and hare and rabbit..... i do not want her taking hare or fox willy nilly, as there arent many hares round here, and there  are no foxes causing a problem. Rabbits she is welcome too!

Dilly on the other hand is still a bit young and silly (and i suspect always will be) so we are working on him..... (with gritted teeth adn thinking about a big stick! joke!)

Hope you get it sorted,

Em

Love your posts.  Sadie is now one year old (pointer).  I always read your posts to see what is ahead of us.  Hum...cats.  We have a 13 year old cat.  The dog and cat tolerate each other with occasional "play?".  But, when on a leash walk, Sadie will choke herself pulling on the leash with all her might.  She lives with a cat????  She acts as if this is a new species.

Most dogs are quite happy and relaxed with the family cat (that one doesn't count!) but other cats are a different kettle of fish! To your dog, other cats are indeed a different species from your family cat.

I had a cat for a month or two when I first got my Doberman puppy. Then the cat had to be pts. He can go into my niece's house or anyone's house where there are cats, and he sniffs and wags his tail. He knows they're pets. I even took him to my tax accountant's office where there was a cat sleeping on a low chair and again, he just wanted to visit, sniff and wag....same at the vet's, a tiny, tiny kitten and an adult cat roaming around. He just loves everyone. If he ever sees one running outdoors, that may be a different story. So far, that hasn't happened. A-r-g-g.

But that's all part of his socialization education. I take him to the farm and feed store and he sniffs baby bunnies, goats, chicks and they even have a monkey in there. I talk baby talk so he knows they're pets and well liked by me.... all off limits as snacks. LOL

Thanks Em, will avoid the showdown scenario as hes good at playing/not fighting other dogs as he relies on his speed to get out of trouble, but does get excited into kill mode after chasing foxes who will turn round on him and its the big buck rabbits he hunts. Could get nasty. Right its back to no chase furry long tail, and seriously teaching leave off the chase so  out with the Gwen Bailey. Abby is a great inspiration to us :) Morse, having some sight hound genes does not excuse your antisocial behaviour. Morse says " Sorry Felix pal ah wisnae masel,ken, jist ye know man they pure mental fuzzies n that, it turns me raj. Dinnae tell the bird eh? She'll git ontae ma case wi the big string again..OK Felix, sound, man"  Hmm Im not convinced and now the pet rabbit next door to his pal Ava the Hunting Weim is missing.. I hope its just gone feral.

Carrie a pen full of rabbits, birds etc means only one thing to my horrid huntin hound - fast food! :D

Oh yeah....just saw this post. I wouldn't trust him either around those kinds of animals. But, my Lab visits my neighbors. Bonnie, who use to hunt and kill rabbits on our acreage where we use to live, lies on their grass and watches the chickens walk around and the neighbors said that one old hen came right up to Bonnie and was checking her out, pecking sort of at her face. Bonnie just lay there and wasn't perturbed at all. But she's 13 and has always been very tolerant. I think she just knows that those are pets, unlike the wild rabbits she use to get. It's interesting how she would respect that.

But she was like that on the farm I use to live on as far as the other animals, including the deer that came around and hung out in the pasture with the livestock. The deer were very tame and would walk right past her not more than 20 feet away. At first she tried to chase them. She got told "NO!" sternly and that was the end of that. She understood that that is big no no....to run down deer on a game refuge, which it was at the same time as being a dairy farm. It was, in fact Carnation Farm owned by Nestle Corp. Do you have Carnation Instant Breakfast, Carnation coffee Mate, Friskey's Cat food?(and many more products) That's where it comes from, the dairy farm and Friskeys was developed there. The farm use to have a cattery where they did the cat taste tests on the food. That is no longer there. Anyhow....a very interesting place and I lived on that farm for a time.

Abby thought she was in heaven tonight, we went to the vets to have her lumps checked out and peole were bring cats in in carriers.......... to her that really is fast food!

Hope Morse can get a grip on what is for chasing and what isnt!

Em

Poor Morse, he has my younger dog's deepest sympathy! We've got a cat that rules our two boys, but across the road lives the "Ginger Minger".  This cat is Spike's nemesis, and to add insult to injury, it has befriended our cat and often pops in through the flap in the night to have a kip :)  So every morning Spike runs down, sniffs for evidence of invasion, runs outside, patrols his borders and reassures himself that its not around.  One morning he happened to spy Ginger M in next door's garden, sitting there calmly giving him the paw!  With a leap that would have made Desert Orchid proud, over the fence he went and landed nigh on top of Ginger M, who took off like he had a rocket you know where!  Spike did a victory waggle dance and leapt back over and now Ginger M treats Spike with more respect, vanishing off into the horizon if he so much as catches a glimpse of him.  I won't tell you about the evening we took Spike into the vet to be confronted with a rabbit on a lead sitting on its owners knee..........................:D

Lesley

Sam was 4 and Gypsy 3 and never meet a cat when I got Oscar and Cleo as kittens they got on great especially Cleo she adored them both and would always if she could sleep in the middle of the both in what we called "Staffords heaven" Oz although a cat always had a strong dislike of other cats invading his territory and as he is a neutured tom heis not quite the "fighting machine" of a Tom. He had a nemesis in the form of a really big - viscious - cat hating Black Tom, well I don't know when it dawned on Oz but one day he apparently (according to neighbours) teased the Tom until he chased him he then jumped the fence and so did the Tom gaining rapidly. Tom then came face to face with mature 6 years old Stafford dog and bitch. He never  chased Oz again ;) he Tom wasn't hurt he escaped just but Oz considered this to be a "game" and  from then on often go a passing cat or dog to chase him - jumping for safety into the front garden - only when Sam was dozing in the drive though ;)
Karen

:D :D :D Started on the desensitisation programme with OH asking Morse if he has a Mum or a Probation Officer, and counting my blessings as my frined with 3 dobes has one who thinks sheep are an Eat all You Want buffet.

Hi - I'm coming in a bit late on this but just wanted to add my two pence's worth. I got a kitten at the same time as my Great Dane puppy because we wanted them to be "best friends" (ha! wishful thinking!) and they are both 6 months old now. Actually, they get along pretty well - they are like naughty children who love/hate each other but can't stay away from each other. The only problem is that the puppy always wants to play with the kitten and while the kitten does too (she is always coming over and teasing Honey), the play can get a little dangerous because Honey is so enormous (45kg to the kitten's 3kg!). She likes to chase the kitten and mouth her and it looks really scary but they both love it (kitten looks like a perpeptual punk with fur dried into stiff saliva spikes!). I don't allow it in the mornings when Honey's very hyper after a night of sleep but in the evenings, when she is tired out after a walk, I let them play together and they both really enjoy it. The kitten isn't the least bit afraid and keeps coming back for more. However, Honey responds quite well to a "Leave" command and so I have some control over their play. Also, sometimes when Honey really gets too rough or out of line, then she gets into "major trouble" - this means I put her into a Down in a scary voice and I hold the kitten between her front paws and dare her to do anything - I say, "Gentle! Gentle!" - and then praise her if she does something nice like lick the kitten or sniff the kitten. She will usually get very submissive and know that she is in big trouble and after I do this, she is usually very subdued and careful around the kitten and plays much more nicely. Don't know if this is the right thing to do but it works for us. I don't do it most of the time - only when Honey's really pushing it.
I think one thing which might help is making sure that your dog sees the cat as above him in the pack hierarchy. We make this very clear to Honey - she always has to wait and watch while the kitten gets fed first and then her. We also always greet the kitten first when we come home, and then Honey afterwards. Plus the kitten is allowed on the furniture and in various rooms like the kitchen, whereas Honey isn't. I also often pick the kitten up and stand beside Honey, holding the kitten in my arms - but above her head, which is a superior position. So she knows and accepts that she is beneath the kitten.
Hope this helps -
Hsin-Yi

It sounds like a good thing you did by getting a kitty when your dog is a pup. That way, you'll be able to get another kitty later if you want. Some dogs are fine with their own cats and not strange cats....you never know.

I don't think you'll see any kind of heirarchy forming between those two. First, they're not of the same specie and cats are not pack animals, but solitary (except for the African Lion). The cat won't look at the dog in those terms and I don't think the dog will either. But the dog can learn to follow YOUR rules and not only respect the cat because it's your pet that you like and in the family, but because he'll grow very fond of the kitty. The kitty sounds like she likes hanging out with the dog and will enjoy the company. Domestic cats are somewhat different I think than wild in that they have become quite sociable and like friends. But they don't do organized packs really. They know you're the one who provides for them.

My GSD had to get use to the cat we added to our family a long time ago. It took careful training and watching because he would have liked to kill the cat at first. Then, he liked it finally and we added more cats which the dog readily accepted after that first one, but he still was vicious if he saw a strange cat come in the yard. Scary.

Yeah...that rough play...gotta watch it. I've had that problem with my Dobe and Chi's, but all is OK now.

I'm so glad things are coming around for you!

That's really interesting what you said about the hierarchy between dogs and cats. I know cats are solitary animals and therefore don't care about a pack order but I was really doing it more for the dog - actually, it was suggested in a couple of dog books I have as a good way to manage a puppy and a cat - to make the puppy see that it is below the cat in the pecking order. I don't think it matters that they are two different species - after all, we're a totally different species from the dog but that doesn't stop them regarding us as members of their "pack" - so I don't think there's any reason why they can't see cats or other pets as pack members too. I think it does help to make them treat the cat with more respect.

But you're right - they are both very affectionate of each other and will each seek out the other's company. We're very lucky as well in that the kitten is from the local rescue shelter and is just a "moggie" and yet is so affectionate and almost "dog-like", such as always coming when called and following us around the house all the time - including into the bath to have a shower with us! She will even ignore fresh sardines in favour of a cuddle from us, if she hasn't seen us all day and we've just come home from work. We got her incredibly young coz that's the age the shelter releases them (6 weeks) so I don't know if she sees us as more than just a tin-opener, like usual cats. Anyway, it's nice!

Funnily enough, when my dog sees strange cats out on walks and stuff, she actually really likes them - goes up to them with her tail wagging and is much gentler than when she sees strange dogs. I don't know if this is because she is an "only dog" and so ever since she was 7 weeks, her only daily playmate was a cat - so she's much more comfortable around them and more excited when she sees dogs.

Hsin-Yi

I think the desensitization procedure that Moonmaiden outlined for you is the way to do it, Lorelei.  

I'm a cat person.  My dogs know that they are not to bother a cat, but only after a lot of training.  My own late cats, two large cats as their mother was a Main Coon, helped in the training.  Each new dog believed cats were something to chase and eat.  I commanded each dog as it entered the family, in a very loud and firm tone of voice, to "Leave the cat alone,"  while my cats did not run from the dogs, but stood their ground.  One cat was gentle with the dogs while standing his ground.  The other cat did not hesitate to hiss, snarl and even slap a dog.  Eventually we had peace in the family and all got along.   But only because I made it clear to the dogs that they are to leave the cats alone. 

And though cats are not pack animals, dogs are.  Therefore, I fed the cats first, then fed the dogs.  Cats had some priveleges in the house that dogs did not have, too. 

It is true that once dogs learn to enjoy the family cats, they still think other people's cats are something to chase and eat.  In this, my next door neighbor's cat, Steinbeck, unwittingly helped.  Steinbeck's a big old orange cat who has three dogs as family and has run of the neighborhood.  He is not frightened of dogs and does not usually run from them.  Again with each of my dogs, before they learned otherwise, when I'd take them on walks, they'd do as yours does - try to chase Steinbeck.  I gave the same command in same very loud and firm tone of voice:  "Leave the cat alone."  Steinbeck stood his ground and did not run.  Eventually the dogs got to where they were curious about Steinbeck, but did not try to chase him.  With the other neighborhood cats, the command of "Leave the cat alone" is now sufficient. 

But it was not, initially.  Training and desensitization to cats is what did the trick.  Good luck!  EC Kostrubala

I had the most brilliant cat ever, he was so laid back, ignored the dogs when they were pups and gave them a swipe when they went a bit far.  They slept next to each other on the sofa and in the dogs bed.  He really was the most special cat who never batted an eyelid at the dogs. The dogs had grown up with him, they left him alone in the house.

Despite this my dogs killed him....I am not sure what happened, I nipped out to the shops and I thought he had gone out - he hadnt and the dogs must have played with him and things got too rough as he was not damaged but when I got home he was dead in the middle of the lounge...I will never forgive myself, all the time I think if only I had checked where he was...

When I got home that afternoon, I knew immediately something was wrong, no happy dogs at the door, in fact I went into the lounge and they were in their beds, they had not touched him afterwards...that image was so awful...

The moral of this is that no matter how dog proof your cats are or how cat proof your dogs are things can go wrong very quickly...I never used to leave them together in the house when I was out and he had loads of hidy holes he could have gone - I have no idea why he didnt...one mistake and my baby was gone...

Hi all,
I wonder if someone can help me with this one. My neighbour has 7 - yes 7! cats. They all use the fence between our houses and sit on my shed. Monty goes absolutely mad (has squashed quite a few plants and knocked fencing trying to get to them).
I have never encouranged him to do this and ignore the cats if he is about. If he gets close, they run.
My BIG problem is that he goes into a trance as tho he MUST have the cat. Telling him to be quiet, to leave, call his name etc does nothing. Last week i physically moved him away from the window and he bit me a couple of times, enough to cause me quite a bit of pain ( just by moving his body away and trying to direct him into the living room) :(

After having the curtains drawn so he couldnt see the cats and shut in the kitchen, he calmed down and was very apologetic.

I need to know a way of stopping this as i dont really want to be bitten again and certainly want him to stop going mad at cats but i dont know how. He's now 1 yr old.

Any help will be appreciated greatly.

Samw you have my sympathy. I totally relate to the trance thing as this is exactly what Morse does when prey comes in his sights and if I want to shift him I need to get in before he freezes. Ive been practising LOOK - say it excited and chuck a treat while on the move if he turns and looks quick enough to catch the treat fine, if not its tough you lose as we move. Over time its got strong enough to refocus him on me when facing distractions like other dogs and less exciting prey like birds. Still working. Sounds as if the cats are loving winding him up so maybe speak to your neighbour and see if s/he would be okay with you discouraging the cats from your shed to begin with. My weapon of choice is a loaded supersoaker, a less tolerant neighbour uses a catapult loaded with dried pasta. As the fence is mutual I dunno about that one

Im worried about him actually biting you - does he do this if you ask him to move at other times too?

No, he's only tried it once before again, where cats were involved but that time he didnt actually bite. Usually i can shove him out the way no problem!
I try to get his mind off the cats but he runs towards me for about 2 feet then straight back again. Not even his fav treats, squeaky etc can coax him.

As for my neighbours helping out... they are not exactly approachable (they slam doors at 6 in the morning. I politely asked them not to but they still do!)
I'm wondering if the biting thing is more dominance than anything.