Calling All Dobermann Owners!

Strange Question, But How Much Can A Dobermanns Bladder Hold, Or Realistically What Should My Ultimate Goals Be For Toilet Training.  I Know Someone Who Only Lets Their Lab Cross Out Twise A Day.  My Westie Only Needs To Go Out Twise A Day, Although She Does Go Out More.

The Thing Is My Dobes Go In The Garden At The Moment Because We Are Only Upto 1 hour intervals With Toilet Training.  I want to eventually stop this as the grass doesnt grow now and the patio smells of urine which is not nice for the neighbors.  So I would like them to just do their toilets when they are out for a walk, whether this be the long walk or just a short trip round the block to relieve themselves.  There is an ideal patch nearby which makes picking up  quite easy, as its mud and you can get it all up.  So what should I be aiming for.  Every 3 hours or more.  The do drink plenty of water which can be a problem.  Should  a dobermann be able to go longer than 3 hours.  I personally would like to take them out first thing, after breakfast, lunchtime, after dinner and last thing.  Is this a reasonable goal or should I be prepared to go out more.  Any comments would be helpful.  One dog is 18 months and the other is 14 months.

Thanks.

Oh yes and they are both female.

All dogs are different and a lot depends on what you feed them and how much water they drink so your question on how often is impossible to answer with any degree of accuracy.

With regard to the smell you can hose this down which helps and once a week or so sluice it with Jeyes fluid (or bleach or a wonderful bubble gum smelling concoction called De-Odour which is available at some vets and many dog shows, probably pet shops as well.

If you think they are drinking excessively there can be various medical causes for this and it might be worth having a word with your vet.

How many times a day do you need to go to the lavatory? I've found that dogs tend to be roughly the same.
:)

Thanks.  Toilet Training Has Always Been A Problem, But Its Mostly Our Fault We Have Never Been  Consistent Until Lately Hence The 1 Hour Rule At The Moment.  There Is No Getting Away From It.  Toilet Training Is Hard Work Especially With 2.  But Due To Recent Consistensy Things Are Getting A Lot Better.  We Are Increasing It By 15 Mins Longer Today.  I know its a behaviour thing and not medical because they have gone long times in the past but if we stick it out.  Phew!!! We will get there.  We also have problems with brawling.  They love to brawl.  Jumping On Furniture, Which Is Also Coming Along Now.  That Was Our Fault As Well As It Was Easier When They Were Puppies To Let Them Sit On The Sofa.  All In All Things Are Improving.

You will laugh at this.  The only experience I had of dobes was before I got them was off the tv.  I had this picture of 2 well behaved, calm and disciplined dogs sitting by my side, protecting the family.  How wrong I was ha ha.  Sheer Mayhem Since The Day we got them.  Boy did I get a wake up call.  But I wouldnt swap them for the world.  They may take up my whole day but Ive never smiled so much!!

hi,
my aunt has a 8 mo. doberman.  you are right, they are handfuls and take a lot of work and triaing.  but they must be obedience trained and socialized thoroughly.  i hope you are doing that.
as for the pottying, all dogs, like people, are different.  only twice a day seems painful to me.    will your dogs cry or whine at the door when they need to go out?  mine does, so he just tells me if he is ready.  if it is nice outside, we are already out a lot, so it doesn't matter.  as for the pottying spot, you can eventually train them to go in a specific spot in your yard, if you don't like the patio getting gross.  (i wouldn't like that either).  anyhow, you can increase the time by a bit each day that they go inbetween potty breaks, but i would not let it go hours and hours and hours.  dobermans need a lot of excersize, so if your keeping yours iindoors all the time, no wonder they are crashing around all over your furniture.  there are some websites about dobermans i would suggest looking at.  you could start with an AKC site or just type in doberman.  anyhow good luck with your little hooligans!

Hi, I love talking about Dobermans. I had to laugh at what you wrote about seeing the quiet, reserved, well behaved Dobermans on TV. Do you guys get that show, Magnum PI with hunk Tom Sellek in it and the two Dobes, Zeus and Appolo....AKA "the lads," especially by Higgins, Jonathan Hillerman? I love that show and the Dobes are so well trained.

Well, my almost 9 month old boy drinks a lot of water too. They're not a tiny dog and I think they just need plenty, plus if yours is like mine and someone elses on this board, they lose 1/2 the water they're trying to take in....they're so sloppy. It's all over the floor!!!

I think when they're still young like yours are, they may need to go out often still, but I really couldn't say how much. It wouldn't be good to make them wait too much if they have to go or they might get some medical repricussions from it. My Chi mix who's about 2 probably goes about every 3 or 4 hours, but maybe not that all day long. (and proportionately it's probably about the same)  I don't know....hard to say.

Yeah....Elijas right. Maybe they'll let you know and maybe you can teach them to go elsewhere further from your patio.

I am really loving this breed.  Lyric is very funny and makes me laugh to be sure. But like Elija said, they need a ton of exercise and obedience practice every day...need a purpose to their lives, a real feeling of having a job to do. And they need to get tired. LOL. Then they behave pretty darn nicely. If I don't do things with my dog besides just exercise, he looks kind of misplaced or lost. He comes alive and thrives on using his brain, is sooooo willing and ready to learn. I'm very pleased with my 9 month old.....how he's coming along. Well, I look forward to some more stories from you.

Carrie

He sound like an angel.  I think I have spoilt my first dobe.  I feel guilty, I am a silly mothering type.  My own children are quite soft.  I really want to correct what I admit to doing wrong which is too much pampering.  I know someone will probably say that dogs cant do this but this dog knows how to get round me she gives me puppy eyes and forces herself on my lap (at 30kg Phew!) when im on the sofa and then nuzzles in under my arm and just looks at me like a baby so I then feel so awful about telling her to get down!  They do have crates which they have to sleep in at night because my son comes down early in the morning and if Im asleep I worry he might upset the dog and she might growl at him, so I insist they sleep in there every night and they have their afternoon nap in there as well about 3pm-6pm.  Listen to me, Im hopeless anyone would think I was talking about babies.  I guess im just a lost cause.

hi,
i think it is difficult to correct some things, like getting on the furniture.  they won't understand why they cannot do it now when they could before.  however, a doberman is a smart dog, and will eventually "get it".  you must be consistant and really mean what you say.  everytime they get up there, you make them get down and make sure they know that this is unacceptable to you.  don't ever let it slide.  make them know that you mean business.  i don't mean abuse them, but can speak strictly.  and if you are consistent and not lax, you should be able to get them better behaved.  spoiling is fun until you end up with two unruly brats that run the show.  not a good plan, especially when you already have a very dominant breed like a doberman.
as far as exercise....do you have a place where you can take them to run free?  i think walking on the lead is great for training and such, or for a quick jaunt around the street, but each day they should be out running and really getting thier bodies stretched out.   i know that when my pup was little it was imperative that he had that kind of exercise each day, or almost each day.  i was very diligent about that.  it made him less frustrated and more able to focus on training.  he got truely tired and therefore wasn't ripping my house appart, like some puppies do at times.  anyhow, consider more exercise.

Well at the moment their exercise is half an hour a day path walking.  I keep reading all these horror stories about damaging hips and such forth, I want to increase it but not sure how or if I would overdo it.  How often and how much should walks be increased.  Very dubious about letting them off the lead.  The only place is on the playing fields near us and they go hell for leather when they run I would be petrified they might knock someone over without meaning too.  Its hard to stop when you go that fast.  We love walking our dogs but not sure how to get past the half hour.  Someone said increase 5 mins a month.  Is this right??  I long to take them out on a long walk but am so worried about problems in the future.

Some good hard running and romping shouldn't hurt your dog. What I have gathered is that what can stress their bones is repetitive, FORCED exercise as in someone who jogs miles and miles and the dog doesn't break a trot....same gait all the way. No stopping, sniffing, turning etc. Or someone who drags their dog along as they ride a bike for a long way. When they're off leash, they tend to get a few bursts of speed and then they turn and trot for a while, walk a bit, stop and rest if they want to. I couldn't keep my dog from rip roaring around the yard even if I wanted to. I think they stop when they're tired or have had enough.

I described what I do with my dogs to the vet and to my breeder and they thought that was just fine. Today we went to the beach and walked along slowly while Bonnie took a dip in the lake. Then we walked down the trail through the woods along side the lake. There's some trotting, a little cantering a lot of stopping and sniffing bushes. Then down to the shore again....some standing around. This trail is only about 1/2 mile each way. Yesterday the walk was longer so today we took it a little easier. Hope that gives you an idea of what I do at least. You can check too with your vet and/or your breeder and see what they think.

What was it you read that implied that that little amount of exercise was all your dog should have in regards to the over stressing the fast growing, large boned dogs? Gee wiz, I hope I'm not overdoing it.

Carrie

Oh, I just re read your post and remembered that your dogs were 18 and 14 months. By 18 months, I've been told there's no need to worry much anymore about exercise being too hard.

Carrie

No they arent in all day.  My husband walks them everyday usually unless its pouring with rain or his feet are playing up (rheamatoid arthritis) or of course if they have bust another lead and we are in between purchasing them.  I walk them some evenings to give my husband a break.  So yes they do get out.  I wont have them running loose at leisure in the garden though as they bark at anyone who walks past and that is not good for our neighbors.  As for obedience.  I am trying but it doesnt seem to sink in.  I am desperatly trying to stop them sitting on the furniture but one is as stubborn as a mule, when your backs turned she is up there.  She gets too territorial (excuse spelling) on the sofa and growls at the other dogs and sometimes my family.  So I have to stop her getting on there.  All I do is shout at her to Get Down!  She does but then 5 mins later Shes up again.  I like them to stay in the Living Room when we are in there so I can keep an eye on what they are up to.

If you use the word "down" as a command to lie down, it can be confusing to use it also for telling them to get off the couch. So, it's probably better to use the command, "off" or something else that you don't use for other things. You just have to show your dog what you mean by guiding him off the couch. Shouting isn't so good because the dog has been allowed on the couch and doesn't know why you're shouting at him. It really doesn't mean anything. Just go calmly over and pull him off and say, "off." Then the minute he's on the floor, "good off." And a couple minutes later if he's still on the floor, "good off." Or "good dog." Let him know that his behavior is good when it is. Show him what you mean. But you have to be consistant, not once allowing him to get on the couch. I think people often forget to reward immediately when the dog's behavior is good or when they comply with a command. The timing is essential. Same with when the dog is on the couch. If he's there for a while before you notice, he's being self rewarded and that behavior is being reinforced. You need to catch him right away as he's jumping up and then go to him and pull him right back down. You don't need anger. Just show him what you want and reward. That's how I'd do it anyway.

For a Doberman, a few walks around the block with a leash isn't enough. I need my pup to get tired. So, everyday we do an hour off leash where he can rip roar around if he wants, or just trot or sniff around. We go on the golf course or hiking trails that are here. My 13 yr old Lab and 2 Chihuahuas all go for these hikes/walks. Of course I happen to live in a very isolated area with very few people. So, there are lots of safe places to go for that. Then the last 15 minutes or so, I often put his leash on and we train a little with sit, stay, heel and the like. Then later in the afternoon, I'll take him into my pasture and let him run around a little and do some more practice or some agility practice. He likes to play tag with my boy Chi and entices Jose to chase him. So, they do need more than just walking to get the ants out of their pants. My boy's behavior is quite good inside and I chalk it up to the exercise that he's getting. (not so much as to damage the bones, not all the same gait which is repititious, and he can stop when he wants,  but it's enough to tire him out) He sleeps like a baby for 2 or 3 hours in the afternoon. LOL.

Carrie

30 minutes per day of on lead path walking is NOT enough for young healthy Dobermann of 14 and 18 months.  If this is all you are walking them then I sincerely hope you vary your route considerably and lot a lot of stimulation work with them to keep their minds, if not their bodies, active.

If you are worried about their hips then get them hip scored at your vet - they are old enough!

I truly hope this post is a wind up or, to be very blunt - I feel very sorry for two bitches whose owner did so much research beforehand they thought they would be like the Dobes from Magnum with no training, think a short road work is sufficent for what should be two fit, powerful dogs and bought two bitches only four months apart in age.  For the latter point the breeders will have to bear part of the blame if they knew that two so close in age were being sold to the same home.

At least this board is a good learning tool!

I am not coming back to this board.  I think people who call themselves dog experts should give out their advise more sincerely, not using it as a tool for their egos.  Its far easier to belittle someone than to genuinely want to help them.  To me this is not being a dog lover.  You say you feel sorry for my dogs but you are not prepared to talk to their owner without patronising them, you think this is going to make me listen to you. I have been back and forth to this board and have found that people are patronising.  I think I will do better going talking to genuine experts who are sincere and genuinely want to help me help my dogs.  After all, all I wanted was some advise.  I love my dogs and want whats best for them, and I refuse to be talked to in this matter as though I am an idiot.  I am not an idiot and have got better things to do with my time than waste it on here. 

Oh and as for Magnum.  That wasnt me who mentioned that and if you had a sense of humour you would see that it was just a joke around.  Honestly, I am not that stupid.  I meant that I didnt realise the breed was so lively I thought they were quieter.  Do you really think that I thought they came fully trained. 

Oh and dont worry I will be increasing the walks, because I want to and I want what's best for my dogs, not because I was "told off" on here.  Oh and thanks for NOT answering my question, I guess you were too busy being IMPORTANT DOG EXPERT.  Could you of not just told me how often I should increase the walks and actually help me.

Spare the comments I wont be coming back to read them.

Who is calling themselves a dog expert - not me!  I am someone who cares sincerely about the breed I happen to love and have a fair bit of experience with them and am sorry if I have upset a genuine lover of our breed.

In my first post I answered Dobermannblitch's questions as best I could with the information supplied by her

No, I cannot tell Dobermannblitch how often to increase the walks and by how much.  Why?  I cannot see Dobermannblitch's dogs, I can only go on what she tells us here - for all I know her dogs may be fit and muscular from charging around her home non-stop or they could be fat and flabby with long toenails and not be up for long walks because they are unfit and it would be painful and uncomfortable for them to have a long run.

As Dobermannblitch is not coming back to read these comments I suppose I am writing for the benefit of anyone else who reads this thread

Are people on this board really patronising or is it that people only feel this when they don't like what we write ?  In my previous message I did say I was going to be blunt - maybe overly so but being blunt is not the same, IMO, as being patronising - and it did contain some advice as well such as varying walks and getting hips scored so that this would lay this particular fear to rest.

I came back as I felt a bit sorry about writing that thread although I do still feel that I was talked down too which still makes me feel "why bother".  O.k. When I wrote that thread I suppose I was a bit mad as I was just looking for a bit of help, I am not an expert, and I felt it was my mother telling me off, not professional help I was getting.  Im sorry if I went off at you Kerioak.

The thing is I do want to do what is best for them.  When I bought them I admit I didnt research much, I just was really excited about getting two beautiful dogs and I had a fair idea of how much work was involved.  I can admit that much.  But that is in the past now and I dont regret getting them, in fact when one of them was small she was desperatly ill and the feeling was horrible  I couldnt bear the fact that she was getting so thin and I was so upset.

The very first walk I took my first dobermann out on was down to my town and back which was an hour.  I met my friend who has a rottweiller and they said "oh no you musnt walk a puppy that much it could damage her hips"  I was horrified that neither the vet or the breeder had told me this.  Anyway walks were kept to a minimum and so far well I wont go past 1/2 hour.  I never got any information except that you could increase it by 5 mins a month.  I never did.  Now that they are adult I was wondering if I could increase it by say 5 mins a week instead as they are big.  They are very muscular.  Toenails look normal to me.  I was worried that I might be doing too much in a short time.  My goal is to say have them out 1 hour each in the morning and say 1 to 1 and a half hours in the evening but I thought maybe I shouldnt do that suddently and I wanted to know how I should increase it.  The evening one must be a lead walk as there are too many people in the park and kids and tiny dogs and they could knock them over.  However I could (reluctantly) let them off in the morning as it is fairly sparse up there.  I did today and my black tan one ran into my leg and hurt me which made me think what if it was a small child.  There is nowhere else to let them off the lead.  I do not have a car and live in a suburb.

Anyway looking back I am sorry I ranted at you, but there is nothing I can do about the fact that I bought them in haste and resented being told off for it when there is not much you can do about that past.  But you can change the future and people usually listen to good advice if it is said in a factual polite way.  I didnt ask how "sorry" you felt for my dogs.  Please know that they are happy, healthy, loved dogs with character but if we can deal with getting rid of that energy while making me feel confident about their physical wellbeing (I am not a confident person) then it would make OUR lives at home better and quieter.  I would appreciate your experience.

Hi,
I don't know if you clip your dogs' nails or file or dremel them to the correct length (or maybe you are one of the lucky few whose dogs keep their nails short naturally), but this site will show you the correct look. (click on 'How to Dremel Dog Nails' on the menu.)

Regarding their exercise, if I were you I would start gradually increasing the length of their walks so that in about 2 months' time they are getting an hour or so twice a day. Ideally a lot of this will be off-lead, but if that isn't possible then extending leads will give them more freedom.

Hope this helps.
:)

Thank you.  I appreciate your help.  I will do that.  I feel more confident when I have guidelines.  Cheers.

I forgot to say that they will always appreciate extra walks as well as playing in the garden!

If you don't want them messing freely in the garden it would be sensible to mark out a smallish area and train them to use that for weeing and pooing, making it easier to keep the rest clean. I must admit my bitches' urine sometimes browns the grass temporarily, but if left alone it grows back lush and greener than before!

I hope you don't think I'm getting at you, but I think trying to bar them from using the garden completely might not be possible at this stage - and my personal view is that it would be unfair to expect them to wait until you take them out for walks - what would happen if for some reason (illness perhaps?) you couldn't take them out every couple of hours? I think trying to do that would create a lot of avoidable stress on you as well as the dogs. It would be a bit like expecting a child to only use the public lavatories in town.
:)

If you don't want information or ideas that come from experience with dogs and Dobermans in particular, then don't ask. You're on your own.

Ego? I don't need this message board or someone like you for my ego.

Carrie

I wasnt actually referring to you.  I think I said that I WAS looking for information and ideas but not to be made to feel small.  How does that solve anything apart from making people feel upset.  Especially if someone says they feel sorry for their dogs.  That is not information that is opinion which is not what I asked for.  If someone gets it wrong, why should they be talked to like that, surely the idea of this board is to help people with their dogs.  Noone need feel sorry for my dogs they are very happy and healthy and are true companions to me as I am to them.  Factual advise like from Jeangenie is what I was looking for, genuine help.  I am overweight when I go to my doctor they advise me how to lose weight they dont say, you terrible person for eating junk food blah blah blah.  Anyway I lost my rag at the time because I hate it when people do that on this board, I have apologised to Kerioak but still stand by that if you want to help someone you dont make them feel worse then they already are feeling, you encourage them and that is from an experienced mother.  Politeness cost nothing.

Hi Dobermannblitch (what is your name - this sounds as bad as Brainless and Porky :) )

As the others have said it is probably best to gradually increase the amount of exercise - do you take them out separately or together and if together let them off lead one at a time or together?  You can do a lot more training whilst on walks if you do it one at a time (as you have probably found) so they don't distract each other.  Yes, it does hurt when they hit you, especially if you are laying on the ground and they turn round to kiss you better,  but I don't know about yours, mine are often a bit more careful around children then they are around adults.

The more exercise a Dobe has the more it wants - a good 10 or 15 minute mad run around - do they retrieve thrown objects - can wear them out faster than a long on-lead walk.  If you can get them centered on a toy and only use this when out, it can exhaust them without doing their human in.

You will be able to see how they are tolerating exercise - if they pant for a long time when you get back then it is probably too much, if they act as if they want to go around again it is probably not enough (although give it a few minutes after getting home for them to decide if they really want to flake out or not :) )

Thank you Kerioak.  I appreciate your advice.

No one can MAKE you feel anything. How you feel is entirely up to you and your interpretation, the security level you have in yourself.

I spent time writing that long post and put genuine care into it with information and examples of how I handle my dogs who are well behaved and how I go about doing it as an example or an idea. In fact I spent time and thought into several posts to you with nothing but the best intentions of how to help. And I truly believe the rest of the people on here are only here to try and help.

No one has the same writing style or personality. How can you expect every written word to come out pleasing to you when you're asking for help or information from a place that has many, many people? You say that you don't want opinions. You just want facts. Well, read an encyclopedia. People are people and people HAVE opinions. Opinions are woven into our personalities and into how we take in information and that's because we are human. The kind of information you were asking for does not come that way.... solely in the form of FACTS.

I tried to add some humor in places, talking about that cute show, Magnum and how those dogs are so well trained for tv and how onlookers of Dobes often see them as dead serious dogs when in fact they're goof balls. I said I laughed about that, only to be taken from you as a direct hit against you. It's not all about you.

"I do repent the tedious moments I with you have spent." (Shakespere)

Carrie

Im too tired and too busy to carry on this bickering.  I feel like im being drawn into a black hole.  Thanks To All but im off to get THAT DOG OF THE SOFA AGAIN.  I still believe politeness costs nothing and you wont change my mind about that.  Thank You To All For the Advise on the dogs, i will take note.  I didnt come here to get into an argument or to be constantly on the computer all day.  SO MUCH TO DO.  bye bye.  Hermione and Zoe say thank you as well because they know now that mummy is happy to increase the walking with confidence who knows this time next year I might be as thin as a pin.  Byeeeee.

I appologize for being rude. I wouldn't want you to feel like you're in a black hole. But I wasn't rude before. I was sincere in my attempt to help you by using my own experiences and extensive, obsessive reading on the subject for at least a year before buying my Dobe. Of course you love your dogs and want the best for them. No one thinks that you don't. Why else would you come on a message board and ask things?

You want facts? Here are some facts:

Dobermans are a high energy working dog. They need a lot of exercise (running, leaping, twisting, playing) for their bodies and a job to do for their minds.

Dobermans are a dominant breed dog which means they tend to be very, very pushy. An owner should be careful not to allow them to walk all over them or things can become dangerous when they're older.

Full research should be done to find a reputable breeder of fine Dobermans. Poorly bred for temperament and health is a dangerous thing to get into.

Heavy handedness can ruin a Doberman and so can non insistance from the owner of the owner's rules. A fine balance must be found between firmness and gentleness.

While they are pushy to have their own way sometimes, they are also very willing and trainable, highly intelligent and have an unusual way of learning....they're "creative."

They need extensive obedience training and more importantly, massive amounts of ongoing socialization.

They need a more extreme relationship or companionship than most other breeds because of what they were bred for. They are said to be the dog with the human brain. They are said to be velcro dogs, very attached and loyal to their family.

They need more time and work than many many breeds to become good representations of their breed and good citizens.

A Doberman is not for everyone and before anyone gets one, they should fully research the breed.

There are many training books available specifically geared toward Dobermans. They do not need training to be a guard dog and in fact shouldn't have any. Their natural senses combined with good socialization and obedience training is all they need for that. There are other sports one can go into with a Doberman.

I sincerely hope this helps this time.

Carrie

Hi Carrie

I think the explosive reply was due to me being blunt - as occasionally happens when I am talking about Dobes.

~~

Hi Dobermannblitch

A couple of things to try - put tin foil on the sofa - if your girl is not used to this surface or sound she may (if you are lucky) avoid it.

Put dining chairs or other obstacles on the sofa when you are not there to defend it.

You mentioned earlier that you shout at her to get off.  This is obviously not working so try a different tack - I use a quiet "a-hem" if any of my lot get on the hearth - they look at me and know to get off (they are never allowed on the furniture from puppyhood so this has not been a problem).    Or tie a short piece of rope - a handle - onto her collar and gently tug this to encourage her to get off with the "a-hem" noise at the same time.  For some reason a lead, as opposed to holding the collar is less confrontional.  Then do something for which you can praise and reward her such as a sit or down or retrieve (and quickly cover up the sofa till she learns not to get on it).

Well Kerioak, everyone has different writing styles and different personalities. They deliver information with those factors mixed in. When someone comes on a message board where there are lots of people and lots of people they don't know personally, they ought to expect to read a wide variety of responses and types of styles. I definitely don't agree with a lot of people here....their methods or their sometimes pompous attitude. I end up getting caught up in it myself and getting pompous right back. So, I'll need to limit my online time. There are too many other things that need doing. In fact, my dogs have 15 more minutes of digesting time and then we're off for a hike in the woods....already need mosiquito repellent! Say a prayer that a bear doesn't get us. We're in Grizzly territory. I really need to buy a big pepper spray. (to punish those bears if they try to get us) LOL.

So, the best thing to try and do is to take the information that seems fitting to you and discard the rest. That's the same when I read so much before getting this most recent dog. I combined some of it with my past experience with many dogs and sifted things out that didn't work for me and took on things that made sense to me. That's all anyone can do.

Carrie

Hi Carrie

I always seem to be replying to you with the differences between the UK and US :D  We "meet" up so often I think because we both have Dobes and tend to read the same threads.

You are welcome to the mosquitos and Grizzlies - we will have the mosquitos all too soon but it is fascinating watching the bats catching them at dusk - they are already out and about in the evenings.

Oh yes...bats are soooo cool. I saw one last night. We need more to keep up with the mosquitos. Some years they're not as bad as others. And when it gets hotter, they disappear. I have a creek on my acreage and when it slows to a trickle, it's a great place for mosquitos.

Yes, this is one heck of a place for wildlife, a pristine, undisturbed wilderness area, one of just a few left in the U.S. where the balance of nature hasn't been ruined by humans. It's truly gorgeous and a real dog heaven. But we do learn to be savy about bears, cougars and moose, noticing signs and tracking. The moose too can be dangerous. But it is a treat to live here.

It's interesting how we steer toward the same threads. You're right. It must be the Dobes. Don't you just love the breed? I think they're the Cadilacs of dog breeds. LOL.

Carrie