Hi Guys,

Well, as most of you probably know, I've been having a lot of confusion over whether to use a choke chain or a GL/Halti on Honey to stop her lunging at other dogs and also walking ahead of me...in the end, I decided to try both and see - with the preference being for the choke chain if it could be effective enough. I'd been using the GL for the past week and doing pretty well on it - the biggest problem was the nose strap riding up into her eyes and also not seeming to losen when I released the tension.

I got a choke chain today and took Honey out for her walk on it. (We have been practising her walking alongside me, rather than in front of me, with her Gentle Leader, for the last couple of days and she seems to have gotten used to that). I found that I had to constantly jerk the chain and it seemed to have very little effect on her - she just didn't seem to care about the noise of the chain or the sensation. It was very frustrating as with the Gentle Leader, I didn't have to keep correcting her because everytime she pulled, it would automatically turn her head and she stopped herself. With the choke chain, I found that I was either constantly speeding up to try and keep her by my side (so instead of her walking slower to stay with me, I was having to walk faster!) or I had to constantly yank the chain - all that would happen is that she would stop and then the minute I started walking again, she would surge forward and be pulling again. I just don't know what to do - my left arm and shoulder is really hurting now after that walk and it can't be good for me to have to keep jerking 40kg with one arm all the time - I think I will do myself an injury at this rate!

And then the worst thing was, on our way home, we happened to look back and suddenly saw a couple walking a small terrier behind us. Honey immediately started lunging backwards towards the terrier and I just couldn't - no matter how hard I jerked - get her to turn around and continue walking!! I gave up and tried to put her into a "sit" before the other dog passed us but she was just lunging and jumping and completely ignored me and the jerks on the chain. It was a nightmare. The couple snatched up their dog and walked around us, obviously thinking that Honey was vicious and I was wrestling with Honey so much, I couldn't really speak to them and assure them that she was friendly. I felt really upset. Although the choke chain doesn't give a muzzle effect, if it doesn't give me enough control over her then we still give a bad impression because I just look like someone who can't control my dog and that makes other dog owners nervous.
Then once they'd passed us, I waited a few minutes and then started walking again - and of course, Honey kept pulling and lunging because she could still see the other dog in front of us. No amount of jerking or my voice telling her off seemed to make any difference - she just ignored me completely. I kept stopping and starting again but everytime, she just lunged forward again. By the time we finally reached home, I was exhausted and ready to cry!

I feel really disheartened now. Before, when we saw dogs out on our walks, I was quite pleased and looking forward to letting Honey meet them - now when I see a dog, I tense up and worry about how I'm going to manage her - it's become such a big deal, I can't enjoy our walks anymore!
I don't know what to do now! I think the problem with the choke chain is that it needs to be a good strong jerk to be effective and I just don't know if I'm strong enough to deliver that. I was definitely jerking with all my strength today and my palm is aching too where I was gripping the leash (I had to jerk with both hands in the end) - but I still don't think that was enough. It is so annoying and frustrating because I feel like she is just not listening or caring about the choke chain or about me.

So I guess my question is: am I just not strong enough to use the choke chain effectively or am I doing something wrong??

Anyway, we're going to Obedience class tomorrow so I guess I will get to practise there with other dogs again - hopefully, she might do better. I have to say, I'm not looking forward to it - I think she is going to dislocate my shoulder one day.  :(


Hsin-Yi

If you have to use both hands to jerk the choke chain, then it will never work with Honey - unless you are rpepared to jerk her so hard you do serious damage to her neck. :( Throw away the choke chain and go back to the GL - stuff what other people think, and enjoy your walks again.
:)

Hi Hsin-Yi

I really do feel for you as its clear you are desperately trying to do the right thing by Honey and are ending up upset and tearful after what should be one of the most enjoyable things you can do with a dog, ie going for a nice walk :)  I'm with Jeangenie and I think her advice is well worth taking :)  The most important thing is that you and Honey are not stressed and are able to enjoy your walks and if that happens  when Honey is wearing her GL and not a choke chain, then so be it :)  JG is right, stuff what other people think!  It's what suits you and Honey that matters, not the opinions of others :)

Good luck and try not to be too upset, you're doing fine and will soon get over this problem :)

Lesley

we have used a halti and that does ride up in to the eyes so we have now changed to a gentle leader and it doesnt ride up at all. Buster still pulled like mad on his halti when we turned right on to our walk from our house (he was way too excited knowing he was getting ball play) but he walks a lot better on the G/L. As for the choke chain i personally woudn't use one. I have considered getting a 3 1/4 check chain but i can't find one to fit my dogs properly so im still looking. As for the muzzle image eveyone i know has been told its not and as for other people i don't care as IMO if they walk better with one then thats better than being dragged along the floor. At the end of the day its whats works best for you and your dog and it seems you have found the choke chain is not as effective as the halti. You say you have a GL/Halti which one is it as they are different and its the gentle leader that doesn't run up into the eyes.

You DO know what to do! You have success with the gentle leader, and you have strife with the choke chain......you have answered your own question.  :) Have confidence in yourself.
Please abandon the choke chain and use the GL. You are the one walking the dog, and you dont have to justify yourself to the breeder on this particular matter. A breeder can give advice, but it is now YOUR dog, and YOU choose what is best for you both. The best for your dog is the method that works. Also your legal obligation  is to have control over the dog.

Unfortunately because you are trying to please other people at the moment, you are getting yourself far too stressed. You should be enjoying your pup, and have happy memories of this time in future. If you get stressed, he will get stressed, and it will spoil things for you both. YOU have found a method which works, the GL, so stick to it.  Please try nd have more confidence in your own judgement :)

Have you tryed the Dog Matic head collar, its brilliant does not ride up face. and they can not lunge when wearing it. Has been great with my leonberger that used!!,to lunge at everything.

As above, ditch check chain and stick to the GL. It isnt an instant fix but I found the instruction booklet very useful in using it properly. Think your problem is getting Honey to walk beside you so maybe work on this first in boring quiet places with big rewards for walking beside you. If you give treats from just behind your knee she gets the idea all good things happen when she walks in the proper place. Whatever you do keep the lead slack and if she gets ahead of you just stop and wait till she comes back into position ( if you smoke light up cos it can take a while!) before you  go on. It took me ages to get Morse to realise that hurrying ahead got him nowhere and after a year he still forgets himself sometimes.

Wanting to greet every dog she sees isnt really a problem: its normal for pups living with another species and  who need to learn canine etiquette, its people who have the issues especially when you have a big dog. Can you get into a breed club or puppy classes which would help her socialise safely with other dogs? Morse had the same issue with frantically rushing other dogs and we took him to classes, walking with reliable dogs etc till he learned social skills dog style. Now he still thinks every dog is a potential friend but isnt unmanageable with it.

:) Youll get there, relax and think of it as free upper arm toning.

http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html#AStudy

I use a prong for most of my walks when in the face of high distractions. My pup and I enjoy our walks. He gets to look around. His head is high and is alert. His tail is up. He's jaunty and bright. He respects that he has to walk along side me and is happy to do it because there are plenty of times that he is off leash, most of the time on our walks he is. He doesn't try to pull so there is no pressure. And if he does, it's pressure at the skin level only. I do use a flat collar intermittently, like every other time out. He is rewarded every minute or so that he is walking nicely. This way he becomes trained and is getting quite a bit better with that collar. But if he pulls with that, I worry about his trachea. So, I stop, then go, then stop, then go. I will not speed up to match his speed, but rather expect him to match mine. It's either that, or we stop and don't go at all. (boring)

The prong MUST be placed and fitted correctly and must be used with  light hands and minimal pull. It will not hurt your dog as much as a choke collar will and walks would become enjoyable.

Carrie

That is not an option in this country Carrie even if anyone wanted to use such a collar as they are not available over here. 

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Hsin-Yi, The BEST method for training a dog is the one that works! What works for one person (or dog) will not necessarily work for another. Based on your post I would advise you to ditch the chain (and thats coming from someone who would happily use a chain!). Please dont see it as a failure on your part, you've just tried a couple of methods and found that one works better than the other (for you!).

Someone else using the same methods may get different results. So what! its you thats doing the training!

Unfortunately they are available in the UK but fortunately not easily and no reputable forward thinking training club would allow a check chain to be used on a dog in class let along a pinch/prong collar thank goodness!  If you walked a dog in public in the UK with a pinch collar you would not get very far!

Joan,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but YES they are!  A lot of the security and working dog catalogue sites sell them, ( I can think of 3 or 4 that I know of).

Ali :)