Hi, i would like to hear your veiws on castrating a dog, do you think its wrong or better in the long run for them,

I'm all for it before they're a year old. I've done a lot of research, weighed the pros and cons, been in dogs for 45 years. And that has been my choice and in the long run it's worked for me and my dogs. (especially important for a male Doberman who's a pet IMO) There will and has been lots of argument on the subject because naturally everyone is entitled to their opinion and what they've found works for them and that's fine. This is a message board and it would be boring if everyone thought exactly the same about everything. But one thing I want to make clear: My choice has nothing to do with whether or not I'm an American citizen, as has been suggested, nor that I was brow beaten. It's primarily for medical and behavioral reasons which I've researched and witnessed. That's really all I know what to say on the subject. You can read other's opinions, research facts, talk to vets or other people and then decide what you want after you have lots of information. Good luck to you.

Carrie

I think it is the right thing to be done also, for the fact that, surley it must be more fustrating having all this testosterone (excuse spelling), building up inside them and not being able to do anything with it, also ive heard it can make them more aggresive.

I should change that from before they're a year old to six or seven months because I wanted to get them before the testosterone influenced their behavior which is related to that. Again, there are different schools of thought. Everyone should do their own research and see what some vets say.

Carrie

My personal opinion is to not castrate. Though, I am always open for the other side of the story. I have heard that if a dog is castrated before he is full grown, he may end up out of his breed standard ie. legs too long, resulting in the dog being too tall. Or maybe it is the other way around, I'm not 100% educated on the subject. My boy is just over six months old and I was planning on castrating him but decided against it as I wasn't so sure about him breaking his breed standard. So far, he is doing great with it. I believe that castration is all a matter of opinion and in the best for the dog himself. If a dog should do better being castrated, go for it. If not, leave him with his testosterone, he'll be okay. :)

Would not dream of castration a dog unless it was for urgent medical reasons, and if that is a retained testicle only that one would be removed. It is true that some dogs get away with no contra effects, most have some effects but they are either not severe or are not thought by the owner to be connected to the removal of a large part of the dogs hormonal system, and some suffer very badly. The earlier the removal of the glands occur the more likely there will be some effect unless the dog dies very young. Oh, and I too have been in dogs for more years than I care to remember, so you will have to make up your own mind but do not expect your dog to be the same as he would have been left intact, he wont. Also please ask yourself if you have a good enough reason to castrate your dog, just because your vet suggested it is IMO not a good enough reason.

i wouldn't either..in this breed it affects the coat growth. :)

Hi Jo,
  I don't think it's true that all dogs become unbearably frustrated by their testosterone levels if not used for breeding.  I've got an entire dog aged 2 at the moment, and he's a normal affectionate dog - doesn't go round being aggressive or trying to mount anything.  I won't be having him castrated.  On the other hand my last dog was castrated at age 1, and as the years went on, got more and more aggressive towards other dogs (males - and only those that weren't threatening at all -he would just attack them).  I found this quite confusing at the time, but then someone suggested that in actual fact it is the testosterone that gives a dog confidence - if his hormone levels are messed with, it can destroy his confidence, thinking he has to 'get in first' through fear of other dogs.  I do believe this, though of course every dog is different. 
  Hilda

Likewise, Hilda, my two entire males (aged 4 years) have never tried to run off after bitches, don't mount everything in sight, aren't aggressive. One of them though is somewhat nervy, and if he had been castrated the vet said he probably would have become aggressive for exactly the reason you say - it is the testosterone that gives them their confidence. My boys are perfectly normal, contented housedogs.
:)

I wouldn't do it unless it is for a medical reason at that time. I prefer bitches, but have two dogs as well. I won't castrate them anyway, but certainly wouldn't have before they were fully mature, because I wouldn't want a dog that looked bitchy! I'll leave that to the girls! If the owner is a responsible adult there is IMO no need.
:)

I would not neuter a dog or bitch unless there was a medical reason.   I consider I am a fairly responsible indivudual and quite capable of preventing my dogs from mating unless I wish them to do so.

There are only two things that neutering will prevent - reproduction, and medical problems in that organ later.  Although with docked bitches neutering often seems to induce incontinence so there are side effects. 

In my breed dogs castrated young never seem to develop a masculine body - why get a male Dobe/dog if you don't want the full thing, they may get big but this is often flab rather than muscle

I don't agree with removing parts of the body unless there is a very good reason for it.

Hello it,s Jo,
just been reading the feed back, i put up this question because, when i get my dog (ckcs), i think i would get him castrated for the reasons i said above, i have no intention on showing him so not really that botherd if his coat isnt as shiny has the next one or if his legs arnt the lenghth or something they should be, so apart from those kinds of reasons do you think there is any proper damage that will be done to him, that will affect him more than him not haviing it done?
dont be too harsh remember i'm new on here!
look forward to hearing your views ( I think)

Hi, Jo,
Castration won't affect the shininess of his coat, but it may well affect the texture, making it thicker and woollier, and much harder to groom. He may not end up looking like the cavaliers you see round and about, and have an ill-bred 'common' look. Some castrated dogs develop 'feminisation syndrome' where they smell similar (to dogs! ;) ) like a bitch in season, and other dogs try to mate them. Not harmful to his health as such, but very distressing to both dog and owner.

These things may not happen, but it is important to be aware of the possibility.
:)

i totally agree with you about the coat texture and when you get your baby Jo you want him to look the best he possibly can, a real good example of the breed ..don't get them chopped off let him be a puppy DOG ...

Jo it can happen, I buried a dog last year that suffered very badly from his lack of hormones, he was on medication for most of his life and I will never forgive myself for the suffering I put him through and will never do it again. At the time he was done I just took the word of the vet but when he started to have problems and I started to ask questions I found out that it was not just my dogs that suffered, plenty of others did too. If you are buying a male why do you want to change him? If you don't want a male with male charateristics then why not get a female?

Really sorry to hear about your dog, that is awfull, i,m relly confused as to what the best thing to be done is, if i was getting a bitch i would think about getting her spayed too! but i have'nt got him yet he will be ready to get in about 4 weeks time 29/05 so i have got a lot of time to do  alot of reading and research, it is not something i would take likely.  I do really apprciate your advice and opinions, (so keep them comming) as this will be a big help to me, thankyou Jo

I think I am not the only one JO ...nice pics thanks

its looking that way inca

All of my dogs and bitches are neutered, apart from the youngest and I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever.  None of them are incontinent and their coats are as they should be and easily manageable for the breed. I have seen a friend's dog's coat go woolly after spaying but it came good again after a few months.  My youngest boy is not neutered and I have considered leaving him entire.  Not sure yet.

Castration is neither "wrong" nor "right" per se.

There may be health, behavioural or environmental reasons why you may wish to castrate your dog just as there are reasons why one would decide to spay or not spay a bitch, choose a particular breed etc etc etc.  These can be as many and varied as the individual dogs and owners.

My view is if it ain't broke why fix it? :D

There is a lot of pressure to neuter dogs, particularly for first time owners. The subtext is that professionals dont trust you to be responsible/capable, and in a way I dont blame them especially if they work in rescue and see the disasters daily. If concern is solely on unplanned litters and preventing more dogs in rescue, then why not sterilise?  Im coming to believe its more about control issues and discomfort with dogs sexuality - many people think of their relationship with their dog as similar to parenting ( provide, protect and guide) and if you are a parent youll know how anxious some folks are about their children's  sexuality.

We felt neutering was the responsible thing to do to this time, no regrets,  but I may choose differently next time.

Think any individual must ask themselves why they are doing it and if that reason is good enough to risk any possible side effects. If the answer is no, then don't do it, if the answer is yes the you need to decide if it is for you convenience. Again if the answer is yes ask your self if you should be getting a dog in the first place if you are not or do not feel able to deal with an intact animal.

This is a reply to jackies answer - if i,m prepared to pay £500 on a dog and there after insurance a month and upkeep, and i know that i can give it all the love and attention in the world that it could possibly want, then surley i dont need to ask my self if i should get a dog in the first place? becuase i may get him castrated. I dont want a hyperactive sexed dog, and i dont think a dog should be denied a loving home, when something can stop him from being that way, We want whats best for our pets, and like our children we make the desicion for them, whats best for them, But i havent read anything yet that has got me thinking yeah it is wrong and not fair to do that. should nobody not get a dog if they dont want to breed, and have the inconvienvce of seasons, and hypersexed dogs, every dog is different i know this.

That's fine Jo, your choice. I only feel strongly about the situation because I have seen first hand what castration can do to a dog, but everyone has to decide what they want for their dog. But would ask why you think a puppy you do not yet have will be "hypersexed". And if you do have to give HRT to your dog for the rest of his life please make sure your insurance will cover this sort of treatment, mine did not after the first year and it was over £90 per month in the latter years.

Have not met very many "hypersexed" dogs myself!  Or even hyperactive sexed dogs?  Not even the studs :D

I would imagine that the proportion of over-sexed males dogs is about the same as that of men! Yes, some are, but the huge majority aren't. There's no reason to assume that your pup will grow up like that, any more than there is to assume your son will grow up to be a rapist.

Very good points,

Yes, it can make them ever so slightly taller because testosterone closes the growth plates. But I've seen and heard from other people (Doberman message board and my breeder) that it's very slight. And I don't know how it is there in the UK, but here we don't show conformation if the dogs are fixed anyhow. They must be intact. So if they're 1/4 - 1/2 inch taller, who cares? I've just always done it to prevent testicular cancer which statistically out weighs the reasons to not neuter (FOR ME). And for sex hormone related dominance ----other male dogs in house hold etc.I have never ever had any problems caused by neutering in all the dogs I've had over the years. In fact many have lived exceptionally long lives.

But it would be the best to do one's own research into the medical and behavioral issues or whatever else concerns you...research besides what you find on message boards.

Carrie

Both my dogs have been neutered without any adverse affects what-so-ever - so far :)

My older dog was at least a year when we got him from Battersea and they recommended that he was neutered (4 1/2 years ago), but it was our choice. He is extremely healthy, slim and has a beautiful coat (similar to a short-coat GSD).

Our Aussie bitch was neutered last August and is equally healthy and fit - no change, so far, to her coat or behaviour.

Daisy

here here ..not married to an over sexed male :)  if he were i would hire him out to stud.....very good points you have made

The stupidest reason I ever heard as to why someone had their dog castrated was that, because he was a smooth-coated breed, the owner thought being able to see his b*lls was rude! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I must admit that in the shortcoated docked breeds some males can look rather uncouth from behind :D :D :D

And removing them does make them more "aerodynamic" and must be of help when scaling etc

As I hate the "dominance" word I think I shall leave that alone :D

My 2 male staffs certainly have very noticeable "danglies" and seem very very proud of them!! :-)  Wouldn't want them castrated unless for medical reasons.

I've only known one totally oversexed dog, my aunts dachsund who would literally mount anything in site, including one of our cats and pinned him to the floor several times with his amourous intentions!  :-)  Poor cat...

In desparation because of this dachsies obsession with sex, on recommendation from the vet, the dog was castrated at the grand old age of 14!  Still didn't cure him though (the dog that is, not the vet!) and til the day he died he still tried to have his wicked way with everything and anything! 

I've only ever had my dogs castrated for medical reasons. I feel there's a growing attitude that a dog can't be "nice" to live with if he's entire!! Sorry, but I just can't see the point of castration unless it's for a medical reason or because the dog is living with entire bitches.

We're very lucky with our vets, who put no pressure on at all regarding the castrating of males.  One day I went in after the most beautiful male greyhound and the vet was sad because he had booked this dog in to be castrated due to him being a rescue dog and the new owner having agreed to castration as a proviso of adoption.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all implying criticism of rehoming agencies who ask this of new owners as they have valid reasons for doing so, only pointing out that there are still some vets who believe that males are best left with their dangly bits :)

Lesley

I'm glad this has been raised as I have much the same decision to make now.  I have two Border Collies both intact. One is 15 months and the other 5 months.  I wanted to keep them both entire and have certainly not encountered any problems with the older one so that is the way he will stay.

Unfortunately the younger one was cocking his leg at 9 weeks, mounting the older one at about 12 weeks and hasnt stopped, now tries to mount the cats - much to their disgust and the latest thing is cocking his leg against men.  Oh yes also one of his testicles hasnt dropped so that is going to have to be removed anyway unless it suddenly appears.

Personally I don't think it is up to me to make a sweeping decision but make the decision in accordance with the dog on an individual basis.  I wouldnt dream of having the older one castrated and he certainly doesnt seem that interested in bitches.  We have a friend who has a lab who came into season recently and he didnt even notice. 

As I said before to my mind it isnt whether I agree or not but whether it is in the best interests of my dog on an individual basis.

Claire

Castration may well not help, try giving tardac first, but wait till he grows up. Most if not all pups go through a mounting period and it is a normal part of growing up, if it upsets you let him know it is not acceptable behaviour. This sort of thing is part of sorting themselves out and will happen in a 2 dog household

i'm really pleased i asked this question, because, i have read the all the post and as i have just told Inca i  now feel "why do it"  i like the saying used by (cant remember) "if it aint broke dont try and fix it" obviously i,m gonna read books and stuff about it, but if they is no medical reason for doing it, then why do it! thankyou all speak to you soon! p.s i,m going to see him on Monday and choose out of five which is going to be  lucky little Georgie i cant wait, its like when your pregnant, you get all the nerves and excitment, and wondering  what he,s going to be like, will he be cheeky,  laid back, or a little monkey, i hope he,s cheeky, and a show off. but i know that once i see him, its gonna be even harder for me to wait!

Jo,

But there ARE medical reasons for neutering and spaying.

http://www.dogsonly.org/neuter.html

http://www.dpfa.org/olddogs.html (this is an interesting article on aging. Scroll quite a way down or read the whole thing. You'll come across some information on castrating)

http://www.gsdhelpline.com/castration.htm (here's one talking about behavior)

Carrie

<but if they is no medical reason for doing it, then why do it!>

A very sensible attitude. It is not necessary to make a decision straight away, live with the dog and if there is no problem leave him as he is. If in the future a problem develops than can be blamed on his testicles (I do not mean behavioural problems, these are down to training), then have them removed. In this case it is perfectly okay to be reactive rather than proactive.

Personal experience of several entire male dogs says that you are very unlikely to have a problem and are worrying about a hypothetical scenario.

Just enjoy your male puppy and don't be swayed by anyone elses opinions, he will be your dog and you are responsible for his well-being.

snomaes

Yes Jo, I agree....don't be swayed by anyone's opinions, whether for or AGAINST neutering. I like that. Someone is against neutering and gives you all kinds of medical reasons, why not...right? And then they say when talking about their position, not to be swayed by people's opinions.

All I can say is read as much as you can. Find if you can the medical reasons why not to neuter and read the reasons why to and find out the statistics and then make your informed decision. That's why I put up those links for you.

It was important to me, especially with a very dominant breed male dog to begin with and a breed that is already so predisposed to cancers.

Happy reading!

Carrie

That is so true tohme. :D  I cannot believe the number of comments complete strangers have made about Cam's dangly bits. Uncouth is not the word. :D

Jo

Tohme,

I once saw an obviously uncastrated boxer have a rather 'uncomfortable' time doing the scale! (even I said 'ouch!!'

Ali :)

Re: "The stupidest reason I ever heard as to why someone had their dog castrated was that, because he was a smooth-coated breed, the owner thought being able to see his b*lls was rude!" END QUOTE

This is the first laugh I have had since my Pointer was castrated last week.

My reaction was the opposite to this - what bothers me is that, because MY dog is a short-coated breed, people can see that they are no longer there! 

I am totally against castration normally, but he has had bouts of dripping blood for several years now, and the vet said it was an enlarged prostate, and castration was the only answer. I kept putting it off, and looking online for another answer, but two or three weeks back I found a piece by a Glasgow vet group, pointing out that the results of non-castration in this case could result in fatal blood poisoning - and I booked the dog in for surgery straight away. The vets couldn't even feel the shape of the prostate as it was so enlarged.  Luckily, being a short-haired breed, his coat should not alter too much. I used to show an Irish Setter, so saw many beautiful examples of that breed - but I was horrified when I saw a neutered Irish - it was unrecognizable! 

Re undescended testicles - my other dog is a Cocker, and one of his had not descended by the time he was six months - and I ALMOST had it removed, but just in time I read a report that said they could come down by the time the dog was a year - so I waited. On his first birthday it appeared! It then went up and down like a yo-yo for several weeks, and finally stayed down - but it was only the size of a pea. Once permanently down, however, it proceeded to grow, and, by the time I took him for his inoculations - a bit late on account of moving - and had the vet check him, he was perfectly normal.

Can I jump on the end of this? I really cant make the decision and I know it's mine to make but would love a bit of advice. Is it usual for a puppy to be mounting things occasionally or should this sway me towards getting him done? It seems to only be when he doesn't get his own way or the cat ignores him but sometimes he does it when i'm not even watching (like for the 2 seconds I dare turn my back). Stupidly I bought him a bed cushion which when is the same colour as him and as fluffy, I think he imagines it's his girlfriend...We did also have an episode of curtain humping but havent seen that recently. Is he just being a normal boy or is this a sign of a sex crazed monster in the making?!! I have never had a dog before so really dont know much. I phoned my lovely breeder who basically said she wouldn't do it but it was up to me. Please help!

Yes it is normal and it does pass. Let it be known that you don't like it unless of course you will in the future expect him to mate a bitch when you are there or he may be inhibited.

Humping is normal behaviour for both dogs and bitches. If you don't want him to do it, tell him "No". 99% grow out of it anyway.
:)

This just seems to be a natural thing, and it has never bothered me. Previously I had a dog and a bitch, and the dog used to mount the bitch whenever we were about to go out - it seemed to be a sort of displacement behaviour, caused by excitement. They both lived to around fifteen - and this habit went on most of their lives!

Now I have two male dogs - eight and nine years old - and they both do it to each other as part of their play. I just ignore it. It would probably be more of a worry if you had very small children and the dog was mounting them. As long as this isn't the case I should just ignore the situation. If you haven't had a dog before you will soon discover they have far more revolting habits than this one! Wait till he finds some fox droppings to roll in - then you WILL have to worry!!!

As for castrating - I would leave well alone, unless, and until, you find a good reason for doing it. Someone once writing in an Irish Setter mag said that "if you want a dog, you should want ALL of it - not just selected bits"! Personally I see castration as a mutilation that should not be done except for medical reasons.

Thanks, it doesnt really bother me except that I didn't know if it was normal so won't worry now!! Just didn't want a situation getting out of control...as long as he doesn't try humping the cat I won't mind!

Think the cat would deal with it!