Oh, on another thread I transposed two breeds on the intelligence rating study thing I read and mentioned on the "What was it about your breed?" thread. The last three are Papillon, Rottweiler and Australian Cattle Dog. (not Australian Shepherd) or is that the same thing?

Anyhow, one probably has to take this study with a grain of salt. Who knows how in depth it was? But if you're interested, here's the website.       

   http://www.petrix.com/dogint/index.html

You can find how your dog rates just for the fun of it. You may not believe what is there. My Chihuahuas are listed 67th. I believe it. LOL. My other breeds, Doberman and Lab are in the top ten. And I believe that too. I thought my Lab was smart. She is really, very willing and perceptive. But my Doberman is sharp as a tack, much quicker to get my meaning. It's just what I've noticed. I show him something a couple of times and he understands.

"The Intelligence of Dogs" ... author: S. Coren who is a neuropsychologist and professor of psychology at the University of British columbia. He has published articles in medical journals including The New England Journal of Medicine, American Journal of Public Health and Sleep. He has appeared on numerous television programs including.....bla bla bla....He is a fellow of the american Psychology association, American Psychology society and Canadian Psychology Association. He was recently awarded the Killiam Memorial Fellowship.

There you have it.

This test is in three parts. Adaptive Intelligence (learning and problem-solving ability) measured by canine IQ tests

Instinctive Intelligence...also measured by canine IQ tests

Working/Obedience Intelligence. This is breed dependent.

Have fun.

Carrie

Yeah!!!!! Border Collies are number 1 :D   .........and Afghans are last.  :(  What a surprise. ;)

Yes, Border Collies are incredible! I'm soon on my way to agility class (a cotton pickin 1-1/2 hours away) and there are a lot of Border collies and they are sooooo smart and quick. It's really a fun class. Lyric is doing super duper too! Yippee Skippee! He has no problem coming every time I call him and going to each obstacle that I name and he knows all the names of things... there in class with no leash on and all those dogs around. "It's workin' time Mom. I'm not foolin' around." LOL.

Oh, I said above that the last three were Papillons, Rotts and Australian cattle dogs. I meant the last three of the top ten. Not the last three on the whole list.

Carrie

Lol, good fun, and pleasantly surprised to find salukis up there in the forties - they have a reputation as only being slightly more trainable than Afghans, which I must admit I think totally deserve last place!!!  I've never seen a more difficult to handle breed.

What the ranking doesn't say, and what any sight hound lover will insist on (even though they may be fooling themselves) is that the sight hounds are actually highly intelligent, just very independent and more eager to please themselves than their master.  True or not, this is a great excuse to use when my Dill cheerfully ignores my every command out in the park, leaving me red-faced and receiving disapproving looks from the other dog-walkers with their perfect labs and goldens!

Nice site though.  Thanks for finding it for us.

Well...I think that the sight hounds just have an exceptionally high prey drive and when a dog goes into that mode...forget it. It's really hard to disuade them from their "livelihood." Gosh, they might starve to death. And the Labs and Goldens and lots of other breeds have a pretty darn strong pack drive. But they all have some of each and some fight or flight too, just varying degrees in the different breeds I guess. My Dobe has a strong prey drive, but also strong pack drive. He's often torn whether to stay by me or run after the squirrel.

I don't know if that test is extensive enough or not, so who knows....just kind of fun.

Carrie

ACD's shouldn't be at the bottom of the table, they are up there with the BC's for intelligence!

I think the ACD was bottom of the top ten which means they were in the top ten!!

I have to dispute the Afghan being the least intelligent.  Independant, stubborn, pig-headed, difficult to train maybe but not thick!!  Some of my friends (so called) take great delight in pulling my leg and telling me every time they see something in the paper or hear something about dogs and intelligence. Water off a ducks back to me and Letitia now :p

It must also be remembered that this was based on a survey in the US not worldwide......................... :D

There was an Australian Cattle Dog in the class when I first started going to 'obedience'. Not really a dog for me at the moment, but I dont think I've ever had such a sneaking admiration for a dog.

He had a real 'presence' and I think he would have nailed any other dog that fancied its chances. Not a big dog but 'so' powerful! This dog was much, much too much for his owner, but was capable of some really smart obedience. We used to do informal competitions, and the two leading contenders were always the ACD and my parents lab (that i trained). The ACD was much tidier than mine, but just couldn't resist 'kicking-off' at some point during the test when he caught another dogs eye!

I really can't put my finger on why I liked this dog, I've never liked a 'fighter' before or since! Perhaps I can just see myself as an aussie farmer! He really seemed to have no interest in being 'petted' by anyone, even his owner. This is the only ACD that I have ever met (other than seeing them at 'Discover Dogs') but I would have guessed his intelligence to be above many of the border collies that I have seen (not more trainable though, unless you had a cattle prod and a broom handle! lol!)

Hi Havoc

ACD's vary greatly in temperament, my pup has a super friendly temperament though can be indifferent to some strangers, but if he loves you, then be prepared for a big long cuddle!!!  It is true though, that ACD's will rarely back down from a threat by another dog and are more than capable of causing harm, after all there job is to herd cattle by gripping their heels.  They are great with family and with children, though most are very protective when mature, andhave to be taught that play fighting between family members is okay
If you seriously love working a dog and have time to give one the exercise it needs then an ACD could suit you.  But if you like a biddable dog then hangs off your every word and has no independence then maybe not.
They are getting more popular in all the working areas so if you go to shows you should start seeing more and more of them around, and not being constantly lairy too! 
Whereabouts are you, I would be interested to know who's ACD you saw "kicking off" !

Hayley

I dont think an ACD would be for me at the moment. I work labradors, and that probably tells you all you need to know about what I look for in a dog!

Not sure i should give you any hints as to whose dog it was (wouldnt want to incriminate! lol) It was about 7 years ago, so he could have mellowed by now (or been shot! lol)

I get the impression that this is the sort of dog that wants to WORK all day, and I really need a dog that is content to spend large parts of the day kennelled. However I would imagine that they are a very handy 'tool' for the right kind of job. I've got in my mind that one day I'll have a crack at working trials (as well as the field trials & gundog work that I do now) and maybe I'll look for something a bit more challenging than a labrador! (They're lovely dogs but training them CAN get a bit like 'shelling peas' once you've trained a few!

There have been several ACDs in Working Trials and one or two qualified TDex!  I think they are eminently trainable and would have one myself but they are just a little short on the leg for my personal preference.

Hi Tohme

I personally know two of the ACD's that are highly qualified in WT, both have great temperaments too, and other than visually the shorter legs have no effect on the ACD, they have huge jumps, one once fell off the horizontal part of the dog walk at an agility comp.... and jumped straight back on!
I am very sad I won't be able to do either WT or Agility with my ACD, I am sure he would have loved it, and been great at it too!  Oh well, I will have to make do with the obedience, repeat the chant, gotta beat those Collies ....... :)

Hayley

I know the leg length does not always have an impact on jumping, it is just a personal preference I prefer a bigger dog.:D

I have told Stella many times that if she breeds taller ones I would have one :D  I saw some very cute puppies the other weekend plus Stella's older pup which still has a floppy ear :(

Funny, 'cos I always preferred taller dogs until I met the ACD, Stella has been a great source of info for us and it is a great shame I will not be able join her in the WT arena, but although Obi is only 6 months old, and a little cracker - I am already looking forward to my next one - but don't tell my husband!!!  :D

My pharaoh came 37 :D :D he does do what hes told MOST of the time, I would say ALL of the time when there is tongue involved - of the luncheon meat kind BTW
Clair

shelties are 6th

Chali,

In a previous post I corrected myself, as it came out as those dogs were the last three on the list. I meant to say that the Papillon, Rott and ACD were listed in this study as one of the last three in the top ten. Sorry for the confusion.

Carrie

No, I meant they shouldn't be at the bottom of the Top Ten!!! :)

Gordons come in at 34!! In that case Penny must be an anomaly :D.  It's not that she's stupid, she is very smart, it's just that most of the time she wants to do her own thing. 

                                                                                                                                   Kate

I would say it must be very hard to say which dog is most intelligent..after all whats intelligence???.Do you class a dog that does as its told intelligent or a dog that thinks he knows better and thinks for himself intelligent.
I think with a lot of breeds its not that they can't learn its that they WON'T!!!
Maybe the totle should be 'most trainable dogs'???
Archer

I agree with Archer, since a dog is a dog is a dog, whether its Yorkie or a Rottie, it follows to my logic that they all should be of comparable intelligence, not allowing for differences in temperment that has been bred in to the different types, and your always going to get thick dogs of any kind. Bit like saying all Welsh people are thick, and all Londoners are intelligent, which I'm not by the way.

Agree with Archer. Much as I rate labradors, I'm really not convinced that they are that intelligent. Just very willing!

Mals came 50th :rolleyes: They are very intelligent (sometimes too intelligent! at the moment we are trying to stop Inca "pre-empting" our commands, as soon as she see's we have a treat (ready to start some training), she lies down, if that doesn't get rewarded, she sits, then stands, trying to guess what we want her to do :rolleyes:, finally she gives up and sits patiently for us to give her a command :)) but they won't do something if it doesn't suit them!

Mini schnauzers came in 12th.  I don't think my schnauzer is aware of this - I'll go and talk to him.

I never pay attention to any intelligence tests that are based on response to commands, as this one.   Dogs which have been bred for centuries to respond primarily at the direction of humans will always do better overall, but that does not make them a more intelligent breed.  All it makes them is a breed that responds well to commands.

Dumbest dog I ever owned was a GSD (who was great at obedience) and the smartest I ever owned was a Yorkshire Terrier (would pick up a new command in less then 3 repetitions, if food was involved!).  I found the GSD to be a real dull bulb because her reasoning power was lousy.  My Yorkie was incredibly fun to live with because you could literally watch her try to outwit you.   She even taught herself to guide complete strangers in my home to the container where I kept her treats, sit and star at the container so even my dumbest visitors would eventually open it and give her one.  :-) 

Stacey

"All it makes them is a breed that responds well to commands"....LOL Stacey....then I have absolutely no problem accepting that basset's came 71 in the ranking :D :D
Jo
x

My little girl Chihuahua would die to please me. She is the most willing dog I've ever had. She still takes far more repititons when I show her something new than any of the other three dogs.

My Chi mix is bright and quick, but has a little more resistance to do what I ask. But where I see that is in other areas, not training persay. He remembers where he or I put things long after they were put away. He knows lots of words. He looks at you with a very bright expression and when it comes to treats, he suddenly becomes a genius. LOL.

The Doberman and the Lab are both willing to please and try hard (except when they're from time to time having a stubborn streak moment) The Doberman catches on more quickly than my Lab, although before I had my Dobe, I thought my Lab was very smart, and she is. But this pup seems to understand English and be able to read my mind sometimes, uncanny. LOL.

I had a Lab mix (maybe Beagle and some kind of terrier thrown in?) who seemed to be dumb as a box of rocks, but he was so incredibly willing that he learned just fine.

But I know what you mean. It would take a whole lot more of an extensive kind of testing which could be next to impossible, to prove any of that stuff.

Carrie

Well my definition of intelligence is the avoidance of work - so the list is the wrong way round. :D

I see the Elkhound scored 36 in the Obedience/Working Inteligence, puttin it in the category 'Above Average working dog' I liked this categorisation of this rank of dogs 'Obey First Command: 70% of the time or better' :D

I think I remeber reading that they scored very highly in the adaptive problem solving type tests, which of course we know as they are a breed expected and inclined to work things out for themselves and work indeopendently of the owner.

That's interesting about the Elkhound. It is nice when a dog has a job to do that he can problem solve and lead the way on some things.

With dogs I really enjoy an intelligent one. It's fun and interesting and very rewarding. (With horses, I prefer more of an average intelligence.)

Carrie