Hello Me again, I sometimes wonder how I ever walked around My local Park and streets without getting involved with other people and their dogs for so many years! yet now I've been on champdogs for a while I seem to attract people and dogs :) anyhow this is tonights walk.
     After a nice training session & ball game.  We were taking a gentle walk back round via the canal.  We were walking down by the canal when out of nowhwere - I mean that you can see for quite a distance (especially now they've cut down the grass) came another Stafford full speed ahead, who proceeded to knock Sal flying - not nasty - luckily - but hyper playful - Sal ran about a bit playing and I looked for the owner - nowhere - I walked over and saw the Staff had no collar -  I stood there for a minute or two looking for the owner when a  lady and man arrived called to the Staff who ignored them and carried on playing (normal mad staffie games with Sal) I wached a moment or two then called Sal back she came back followed by the staffie and Sal flopped down by my feet as she was told but the stafie continued to evade his owners for about 4 minutes and eventually he came close enough to me for me to loop Sal's lead round his neck and hold him until the man managed to put his collar back on. It seems he's fine until he sees another dog and then he goes deaf not interested in them his ball his squeaky toy... nothing but the other dog it seems exsists...
     They asked me how I got Sal to be so good and to be honest I don't  know...how would you help them? what would you suggest? Training classes?
     Karen

Training classes for owners then perhaps the dogs!!

You may be right but I really think they were trying some Staffs are fascinated by other dogs and this is one.....luckily all he has meet so far seem to have been friendly.
Karen

Our pup (7 months) also loves to greet every dog she meets, but never goes out of our line of sight. She has good recall when no other dogs are around (we take her to training classes twice a week) so I take her over to a part of the park (fully enclosed area, as I would never trust her recall 100%) where there are no other dogs to give her an off lead run. I would be interested to know what others think about perfecting recall in the prescence of other dogs :)

We let Lacey run about over the park near use and she has always been really good with other dogs and she is excellent at recall now at just ten months of age. She wan't so good before as it's like taking a child to a shopping centre and expecting them to walk all the way around it with them by your side. We used to let her off and if she was running away in the opposite direction we'd just say see you later or run off the other way and she would soon come back to us as she must have thought it was a game. Good game we played with her was to stand about 50 yards apart and let her do shuttle runs between the two of us taking alternative turns to call her and praise her when she reached each one of us.

The best way of having a good recall around other dogs is to stop the fault developing in the first place. Once the habit is there, most people are just not going to fix it (they may get lucky and the dog just might grow out of the playfullness though!)

This is how it starts. Cute puppy sees another dog & runs over to play. Owner hasn't got control so puppy gets there and has a real nice game. Puppy owner allows fun to continue, other dog owner isnt bothered because its only a puppy after all! The puppy has been rewarded for ignoring the initial recall (which probably hadnt been trained yet). Over the course of the next few weeks this continues, puppy owner starts to recognise some of the other owners & doesnt even bother to try and stop the puppy (because he knows the other dog is friendly!) The puppy has learnt that by ignoring recalls he gets the reward of the game.

Sooner or later this gets a pain, maybe he meets the wrong dog (not so friendly) or somehow a dangerous or just inconvenient situation occurs. Puppy owner thinks "I must do something about this". Next stop obedience classes. These classes show the owner how to do all manner of "tricks" in the village hall, which the dog may well be good at! However, they do NOT give the owner real control. Some classes will teach the owner to use bits of food and a clicker, this will help if the dog is more interested in food than fun with another dog! Some classes will teach you to give the dog a 'damn hard yank with his lead', this may help if the the dog is easily intimidated. Either way, my guess is that in many, many cases the owner will just not have the ability to fix the problem!

REAL control of a dog in exciting and stimulating environments takes loads, and loads of work (on your own with the dog) building control in gradually increasing levels of stimulation. It is not achieved by letting the dog off the lead at the start of the walk, letting him do exactly what he wants then putting his lead back on and taking him home! Classes should help but imo really fixing that sort of problem takes 'ability' and real determination which most dog owners just dont have. (Dont let me stop you trying though! LOL)

Additionally many people start off at a significant disadvantage by the breed that they choose! ;-)

I could not agree more with everything you have posted..........................................

Especially the last sentence......................................!

Thanks tohme! Was worried i was being a bit blunt!

Having read some of your other posts I'm sure we could find things to disagree on though! (LOL) ;-)

I agree with what you say Havoc. In our case you summed it up in your last sentence, even very experienced people in the breed recommend not letting the dogs off the lead at all as their recall is notoriously bad! This is why I only let her off in a fully enclosed area. Even as a young pup she was bigger than several dogs we met so she wasn't allowed to run over and play (I really don't like dogs who are off lead running up to others who are on a lead because even if the dog off the lead is friendly, the dog who is on the lead may not be and things could get nasty!) This is why I only tend to let her off the lead when there are no other dogs around.

I agree with you about not liking people allowing their dogs to run up to mine! I know mine wont react badly, but I really cant be bothered with having a strange dog jumping all over mine. I'm not bothered whether the strange dogs are friendly or not, its still a pain when your own dogs are under control. In my case this is often 5 dogs at heel, off the lead. They're not going anywhere, whatever the other dog does, but i'd still rather be left alone! I'm lucky though & very rarely have to take my dogs to relatively busy places.

I'm very interested to hear what motivates people to choose a breed that they "know" is going to be so unreliable that they wont be able to let it off the lead. I can understand a husky, if its required for sled pulling etc. However, for me the real pleasure in having an active breed is getting it out and giving it some freedom!

Is it just the pleasure of owning 'something different' , or is there more to it? I'm not judging / condemning anyone, just interested to hear views....

We are going to work her (pulling a rig) when she is old enough, we're teaching her the commands now but won't start training her to pull until she's at least 12 months old (they have to be at least 12 mths to enter rallies). We're also going to get a springer so we can give her the exercise she requires but again not until she's old enough. I understand this isn't the same type of freedom as you give your dogs, but this is what they were bred to do.

I agree with you totally Havoc - oddly enough ;) - maybe I just notice Staffords being "bad at recall" because I own the breed, but I do notice a few that are "poor" to say the least in the presence of other dogs. Sal has always been "allowed" to greet a dog or a person but only when I say so not when she feels like it :) I would not "like" a Stafford running at me full pelt so I don't see why I should inflict this on other people. And like you Havoc I cannot be bothered by other peoples dogs bothering mine. I feel obliged to  stop our walk and wait until they come and get their dog.
Sal is not as "good" as yours walking at heel off te lead, she bolts about like a "nutter" but will "drop"  when told and "wait" regardless of the "distraction"
Karen     

First I'd tell them to leave the collar on it when running loose.  If it takes off it has no ID on it, AND there's nothing to catch it with when it does come back.  YIKES!

Wendy