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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Long (and sad) story...HELP!
- By biocan [mx] Date 21.04.04 19:49 UTC
It's been a looong story with one of my girls, and I need your opinion on something, so if anyone has any commentary, I'll greatly appreciate it!

Chianti is one of my females, she's 3 years old. When she was 2 and a half years old, we decided to breed from her. We did all our homework, we chose the specific stud we wanted for her, they both had all the proper health tests done, and everything seemed perfect. The first weeks after the mating, she behaved like a normal girl who is pregnant (or at least having a phantom!) she didn't want much to eat at 3 weeks, then started devouring at 5-6 weeks, and she was veeeery affectionate, clingy, calm... I'm not a fan of scanning or Xraying my girls, so we decided to just wait and see. Her tummy was slightly bigger, but not that much, and by the time she was 6-7 weeks, we definitely thought she was either just having a phantom, or maybe carrying 1-2 pups at the most.

Two weeks before her due date...there appeared a string of dark green fluid coming from her vagina. We, obviously, were pretty worried about this, and rushed her to the hospital as soon as we could. She was scanned and the vets told us the uterus looked filled with "something", but they couldn't see any distinguishable part of a puppy. They guessed she must have miscarried one or two pups at the most, and probably reabsorbed them, but had something left there, and she was like "trying to give birth" to it all. Well, they checked her and did some lab tests to make sure she wasn't having any infection, but apparently she was completely cleared of any bacterias. They gave her an antibiotic (for 14 days) just in case, and when she was re-checked later on, the uterus was apparently back to normal.

So, after consulting with her vets, we decided to mate her once again. Two months ago she was in heat again....exactly 6 months from last season, so it looked normal. She was taken to the same stud we used last time, she was also given antibiotics (amoxicilin/clavulanic acid) for ten days once her season started, we had a blood/urine test to check her (she was all right), and we used a Draminski to pinpoint her ovulation date. She was mated 3 times during her season.

Again, she was behaving clingy, affectionate, not hungry for the first 3-4 weeks, then hungry like hell, and by the time she was 6 weeks, her tummy was HUGE, she looked like she had swallowed a watermelon, so we definitely thought she was pregnant and having many pups.

Everything went normally, until she was almost 8 weeks, when suddenly we found a drop of that green discharge again..JUST ONE DROP. But we called the vets, and they said that if it was just a drop, we shouldn't worry, but we should take her to them if we saw more discharge from her vulva (and she was given some antibiotics again). Well, nothing happened, no more drops! But then she looked... well..not so fat! Her tummy was obviously larger than normal but not that much, not as it had been before. Had she lost them?

Her due date was April 20th, so again, we just had to wait. On April 18th, at night, her temperature drppped, and she started giving birth on the 19th (6:00 pm). She gave birth to a boy, who appeared uncovered from any sac and with his umbilical cord already cut (and took some time before breathing...seconds, but it wasn't so easy), and two hours later, we also had a girl, but the girl was born dead (and her fingers on her left hand were badly deformed!).

The boy looked fine, but a little weak, and he seemed to be too fragile to grasp a nipple properly, but he ate a little milk. He was small, but within the parameters of his breed, and Chianti was taking really good care of him. 

BUUUUUUT....Today in the morning, the pup was even weaker, and slightly cold (even though the room is VERY warm), and we thought he wasn't feeding well, he was far too slow for a normal puppy, and so we tried to bottle feed him. Chianti is having a good supply of milk, but the puppy was very weak!
When we bottle fed him, he wouldn't even try to eat, he let all the milk flow out of his mouth (and we even saw a drop of milk coming out from his nose as soon as we fed him! He was checked for cleft palate when he was born, but looked normal)...and he finally died a couple of hours ago.

Chianti is fine, but what we would really want to know is what is happening to her... Are the pups just having genetic problems? Is is the combination between this particular stud and Chianti, that looks well on paper, but definitely is having no success in reality? Is she having any hormonal disorder???? What's happening? Chianti is a beautiful champion with the best of temperaments, and we really think that pups from her would be awesome..but is she just not meant to be a mom?

The vets said that because she probably had an abortion last time, that she could be having some mummified rests attached to her uterus, which prevents more puppies from attaching to its walls... And that I should re-scan her to see if there's anything like this happening. Her breed normally has 3-5 puppies per litter, and she's from a line which has produced 5-7 on average... so 2 wasn't much anyways!

What do you think? Help..help..help!
- By mattie [gb] Date 21.04.04 20:07 UTC
when you say >>>When we bottle fed him, he wouldn't even try to eat, he let all the milk flow out of his mouth (and we even saw a drop of milk coming out from his nose as soon as we fed him! He was checked for cleft palate when he was born, but looked normal)...and he finally died a couple of hours ago. <<<   I had thought cleft palate but if you checked then thats not it.
Sorry I cant suggest anything other than leave her be for at least a year then maybe try again with a different stud.
Fo r  some people breeding seems easy but it isnt at all we try our best to do everything right but it doesnt go right yet

a litteleheinz 57 down the street can have pups like shelling peas.
Ive had so much trouble breeding I really dont want to bother again I could fill a book with things that have gone wrong.
also you say that the vet says about the mummified rests surely after last time the vet should have given an injection which should clear her uterus. correct me if im wrong.
anyway as i say be patient leave her a year and then see but ask yourself also is nature trying to tell you something maybe its not to be.
- By biocan [mx] Date 22.04.04 18:11 UTC
Thanks for your message. She hasn't been given any injection to clear the uterus, neither this nor last time. I hope if she's having anything in her uterus, that a scan can reveal it?
- By yappy [gb] Date 21.04.04 20:13 UTC
I am sorry you have had such an awful time. Like mattie I can't come up with anything other than try a different stud. Maybe your bitch's hormones when she is pregnant go up the creek. My own daughter has a problem when pregnant, she can carry boys but not girls and when she had the girls everything was going wrong and it was something to do with the girls hormones affecting hers and she nearly lost both of them.

I would also suggest that you now give her a years break.
- By mattie [gb] Date 21.04.04 20:37 UTC
a friend of mine had a bitch from my breeding they tried four times with the same dog a top dog very nice each time travelling 100s of miles  anyway they gave up and it was suggested they try again one last time when she was six so they tried an equally nice dog just down the road form them hey presto she had a lovely litter and was fine.
I do beleive that as in human  people  not being compatible to some other human person dogs can have a difficulty producing to some dogs .
- By fionamm55 [gb] Date 21.04.04 21:32 UTC
Do a search for Canine Herpes Virus on the web - it's supposedly very common at the moment and can cause this type of problem.  Its worth checking to see if the symptoms add up.  There is no test for it though, but there is a vaccine.
There are various reasons for resorption, but it is very difficult to pinpoint which one it is. 
- By candie [gb] Date 22.04.04 12:29 UTC
aah i'm really sorry to hear this sad story, but i'm glad your bitch is ok.Give her a cuddle and kiss form us!!
- By Kerioak Date 22.04.04 14:33 UTC
Sorry to hear about your problems

Has she been tested for Brucella or low thyroid?
- By biocan [mx] Date 22.04.04 18:14 UTC
Yes, she's been tested for both and was found very healthy...
Thanks for replying!
- By biocan [mx] Date 22.04.04 18:14 UTC
I haven't checked her for the Herpes Virus, but the stud is free from that. Is it transmitted sexually only? She has only been mated with him, and before that she was a maid. I'll check that..thanks!
- By biocan [mx] Date 22.04.04 18:13 UTC
Thanks for your messages... Yes, my vets also suspect than another stud could do the trick. I'll search and find her another suitable one. I hope it will work next time, but I'll let her rest at least a year, maybe even more, she's young, and she's been through a lot. She needs to be pampered, so she can fully recover from all this. Thanks for replying!
- By biocan [mx] Date 22.04.04 18:19 UTC
Another question.
The book of the bitch says that anything affecting the pups between the 3 1/2 to 5 weeks of pregnancy can cause deformities in the limbs, and heart problems (which the vets think is the cause of death for the male pup)...and it also mentions heat stroke, as when a dog is left in a car.
Well, Chianti was never ever left in a car or anything hot, but she likes to take the sun. I tried to prevent her from laying in the sun during her pregnancy, but she might have done it once or twice (10:00 - 11:00 AM so it wasn't THAT hot)....do you think that could have affected the pups? My vets say they don't think a bit of sun would be harmful.....but what do you think?
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Long (and sad) story...HELP!

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