I have recently had to return and older pup to the breeder, our vet's opinion was she had suffered some trauma to her growth plates and this had resulted in her legs not being straight, she was very knock kneed and threw her hip out,  the breeder took her back no problem as they did not see a problem they did not agree with our vet, we were in a difficult situation, the seed of doubt had been sown,  so we returned her, she has gone back to kennel life and we are very worried if she will be ok and very sad we did not just insure her and trust the breeders opinion in the first place.  Basicly i am just looking for someone to tell me she will be ok i suppose :-( :-( :-(

Damage to the growth plates can happen very easily, and can be caused by jumping on and off furniture or running down steps, particularly if he is a large breed, also deficiencies in the diet either because the needed food is not being given or because the dog cant assimilate his food properly. He will be fine with his breeders and they will do what is best for him.

I'm sure pup will be fine - and at least your breeder took him back into her care :)

Words fail me

why???? ;-(

Deedee,

Vets know very little about how most breeds develop.  You don't mention the breed, but some can go through growth stages that make you wonder if they will ever grow up to look like the standard for an adult.  It would be very unusual for a puppy to injure both growth plates and cause damage so severe that a pet owner would feel compelled to return a puppy to its breeder.  It would also be very unusual to how a birth defect involving the skeletal structure that would be so severe you would need to return a dog to the breeder.  Neither is impossible, of course.  Did your vet do X-rays?  What was your vet's prognosis for the puppy - would it be crippled as an adult?  Are you sure the vet was not referring to hip dysplasia?  HD can make a dog appear knock kneed and wobbly in the rear - but that's also a stage that some large dogs go through when they develop.  I had a GSD with severe dysplasia, evident at 4 months old, and she was knock kneed and wobbly in the rear until she died at nearly 13 years old.

The breeder seems to be ethical in taking the puppy back.   And while some breeders can be "kennel blind" in terms of defects in their dogs, if the breeder is flat out disagreeing with the vet - and the vet has no medical evidence to prove the breeder wrong  - then I would be more inclined to give the breeder the benefit of the doubt.  That is assuming the breeder is experienced with the breed and has had a number of litters.

My only other advice to you is that if you want a physically perfect example of a breed, next time do not buy a puppy - buy an adult dog.  If you are so worried about her, it befuddles me why you would return her to the breeder. 

Stacey

Hi Stacey,

The puppy was a Dane.

Whilst I agree in principle with all that you are saying, from what I can understand DeeDee bought the pup at around 9 months of age - and to be honest, if a Dane is that unsound at that age I would be inclined to think she's done the right thing in taking her back.  At 5 months it may just be developmental, at 9 months I'd be wondering if nutrition etc. had been right previously.  (You will see by my user name that I don't have Danes, but I do have fairly extensive experience of them from birth upwards.)

In a breed with that short a lifespan, and that is that expensive to 'put right' even where it's possible (wouldn't be possible to insure a pre-existing problem) - I personally think it's not worth putting yourself through the emotional trauma of extensive problems.

Just my opinion, I'm sure others will differ.

M.

Poor dog, he wasn't perfect so you gave him back! How about a dog is for life.  How long had you had the dog, Were you not attached to him?

Whilst I do understand what you're saying here ........ do you not think that it's the breeder's responsibility to sort out such issues and to ensure that they aren't repeated?  Surely as long as people are prepared to pay good money to take these problems away from the breeder, puppies will keep being produced and sold.  (NOT in any way saying that this is the case with this breeder, as I don't know the details here, just a general observation.)

It's the same as puppy farms - while the public keep paying for the puppies, more will take their place :(

M.

I think its clear from the post above she was attached to the pup - if not, she wouldn't have posted! I believe the pup was 9 months old - and if there are problems like that at 9 months it could prove to be very difficult for a dog such as a dane (and I don't think she had had the pup for long). For a start, you have to be realistic in whether you can afford continous dane-related vets treatment - especially as the pup wouldn't be insured! I have to say that I think the poster has saved herself a lot of heartache, and if thats callous to you then I'm sorry, but to me its realistic. :)

I'm afraid it is callous to me, perhaps the question of vets fees should have been considered before getting the dog.  Surely no breeder can provide the perfect dog which will not need visits to the vet at some point.

It just strikes me that some people forget what having a dog should be about.  Is it about seeking the perfect specimen for showing/breeding or having a loving family pet who will reward you for all the love/care and attention you give it.

I agree...but if you are buying a dog with a condition that the vet says was already present before you bought it - then you cannot prepare for any vets bills by taking insurance. I agree that no dog is perfect, but I personally wouldn't continue with a pup I wasn't sure I could afford to continue with (assuming I had only just bought it and found the condition) - what are the options when you run out of money?

If I had bought a healthy pup at 8 weeks and THEN it had developed the problem at 9 months, that would be a different matter :)

I'm entirely with you on that Chloe, if you buy a healthy pup, then you take care of any conditions that may develop in life.  Believe me, I know about vet bills :D ;)

Tim, we're not talking about the odd 30 quid visit to the vet here - we may be talking about many thousands of pounds, plus a short and painful lifetime - I don't think anyone here is concentrating on just the financial investment here, the emotional side of seeing a dog in pain and possibly not being able to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle etc. would be very high in my thoughts.

M.

timhere, i cannot agree with your view, but for different reasons to financial.
If people did as you advise, and kept pups who had these problems, it just encourages unscrupulous breeders. It encourages them to lie about the pups health, it encourages them to breed badly with no thought to health, it encourages them to neglect pups that they breed. lets face it, why bother with going to any trouble at all, if people buy the pup anyway? IMO keeping a pup under such circumstances eqates to buying from a puppy farm. People buy out of pity, not realising that by financially rewarding the breeder, they are actually encouraging puppy farming.
It would be terribly sad to return the pup, but i feel that it is our responsibility to look at the wider picture.

:-( :-(  ????

Im sure you both will be ok.

Thanks to everyone, i know what timhere is meaning, yes i was very very attached to the pup although we only had her for a week, our vet advised us not to keep her as he was of the opinion that she would suffer from the condition in later life, as she was not only knock kneed but her right leg was not straight and this caused her to lean over to one side, our vet has had many dealings with danes, as a worker at the practice has 2 she has had major problems with both along the same lines operations costing over £1500 each.  I have 2 other dogs and have recently lost a dane at only 7, i love my dogs very very much and i do wish i did not return her i suppose it is not very nice but i am sorry there is nothing i can do about it now, i never expect perfection as noone or thing is perfect i am the loser here as i will not benifit from the company of the lovely dog :-( :-(

Sorry to hear about the puppy. He sounded very ill :(
But could you explain something to me.... (PLEASE dont think Im being aggressive :) I'm just curious and nosey ;))
If you've just had to give up your puppy now why are you (straight away) trying to find a new one to replace it?
(I replied to your post on the ''searching'' board)

Why not - she only had him a week and he went back to the breeder - I would do exactly the same :)

the reason i amlooking for another pup is simple i love dogs, :-D i love danes, they are the most friendly dog's i have ever owned. and i have a 4 month old pup who loves to play and loves other dogs, also i feel if i wait too long then my little pup will be too big to play safely with a new puppy, basicly for the same reasons i wanted the pup in the first place,  plus i am not looking to replace the pup as even though i only had her a shor time she could not be replaced,:-(  if i had bought the pup when she was 6-8 weeks and this condition had developed then that would have been a different story, i have never insured my dogs previously to early last year and i have always paid the vet bill's as dog owners you understand how sad it is seeing your loving pet in pain and suffering, would you buy a 9 month old dog which your vet and also a second vet (co worker) had advised you that you would be taking on a whole lot of problems and heart ache,  i have a variety of pets, many of which are well into old age, i love my dogs and pets and look after them very well, i have taken holiday time from work to help the little one settle in, my house will never be without a dog, it is unconditional love, very rare eh:-)

Hiya

Make sure you are prepared for another dane - I have 2 and its chaos here. Do you use a crate? I have found mine to be god sends.

C :)

Deedee,  My thoughts are with you I know what its like to loose a dog through no fault of your own. You have done the best thing. You have my support. 

Hi, read your post (as well as the other one) and having had Danes I can only say that as long as you feel you did the right thing then, for your circumstances, you did. Nobody else is in exactly the same position as you.

Thanks Jeff

Sorry all if i got a bit stroppy, i am not used to all this, also sorry that the much confusion post is not joined to this still getting the hang of things, i am sure i will be fine with 2 danes i have lots of patience do not have a crate as yet hope not to need one but any suggestions where to get a large enough one if i do.

:-) :-)

Purebred dogs are expensive and you deserve to get a healthy puppy. I would have done the same thing. And, being the owner of four dogs, I can relate to liking to have multiple dogs....also see nothing wrong with your wanting another. The only thing I can say is that for me, (but that's just me) I'd wait till the one pup was older before adding another pup. Two pups are hard to give enough time, attention and training to. My Jose was 2 yrs old when I added Lyric, my rambunctious Dobe pup. That, for me was pushing it. But if you've done this before, you know what to do and what works for you. I wish you all the best in your search. I would also check into some other breeders who have an excellent reputation and see proof of all kinds of health tests etc. Good luck.

Carrie

Hi Carrie

Thanks, i am going to give alot of consideration to the situation on getting another pup, the more people who have done this with 2 pups early that get in touch the better, then i will have loads of advice, i have had 2 before but one was a bit older although she was a (highly strung):-D cocker and she still is, this did make it a bit difficult, i am taking my little pup to classes over the next few weeks, so i will see how she gets on and how she behaves, we do have a very large garden and also a large kennel and run outside, this is a good site lots of helpfull advice and reassarance(spelling??) I have found an excellent breeder so i will ask her opinion too. :-)

Hi deedee, I personally would wait a little while, until your younger one is a little older, as others have said, but that's just me. Trying to train two youngsters at the same time, as well as bond with them (two tend to bond together, instead of with the owner) can be very difficult. I know that some breeders would be unhappy to sell two puppies to one owner, so a 4 to 5 month gap is not much difference. However, I wish you luck in what ever you decide. Based on your recent experience, I'm sure that any breeder you decide upon will have carried out all of the KC health tests necessary, for hips, blood, heart disorders etc. Best of luck, and I hope your next puppy, whenever you decide to get it, brings you a lot of joy.
Kay

OK, I am going to stick my neck out here and say that I actually think that 2 danes, close together, would be OK - providing you have a kennel and run for them for when you go out/they have their mad half hours.

Danes do not need a lot of "mind training" nor exercise until at least 6 months, and 2 pups can actually wear each other out nicely...but because of the size its better to get 2 of a reasonably close age to play together. Personally, I have a 2 year old and an 18 month old and it has been very stressful (one destroyed house) and I didn't even get the second until Willis was older!! Given that time again they would have been out in a run when alone - but now they have settled they keep each other company and I am guaranteed a similar house to the one I left. I am not sure I would have 2 again - which kind of contradicts my post - but danes are so soft mouthed the best dog to play with a dane is a dane :)

Hi Deedee,

You should have explained the situation in your initial post.  I assumed, as I'm sure did most people, that you had this puppy from when it was very young. 

I would have done exactly the same as you.  Taken a puppy or adult I purchased to my own vet as close to immediately after purchase for an "MOT".  If the vet discovered something congenitally wrong, I would return the puppy to the breeder with a statement from the vet.   If they pass the MOT, from then on the puppy is my responsibility, for life. 

Here's the other thing I do now - I study the breed, I attend dog shows and watch very good examples of the breed.  I look at size, movement and everything else visible to the naked eye.  And then I find a breeder who belongs to the breed club, does all the required and recommended health checks of parents and progeny.. and then I hope for the best. 

Stacey

Well put Stacey, that's just about all you can do. Study, watch, check for health tests, then hope for the best!

Kay

Sorry Stacey
I realise now, i think i was a bit carried away, i should have explained fully.  I always take my new pup to the vet, and did so with this one on the Monday we got her on sat.  My vet also told me to tell the breeder to call him and he would explain his opinion in full always easier coming direct from the horses mouth.  I did study the breeds before but not as much as i should have, i suppose because i have never encountered that situation, my spaniel is a excellent pedigree (Lochdane Cocker Spaniel) but i know that does not always make it right, but i thinkihad enough knowledge to know that something was wrong with the older pup, although i did not know just what from past dogs i knew there was something.  This site has been a great help to me, it is great to get advice from people who are more experienced than myself, one thing i have learnt is to check around and word of mouth is the best way of finding the good guys, not that i am saying the people who advertise in the paper are not good but the best do not have to advertise.  I am attending a show this weekend, not competing as i am sur my baby would win :-D :-D but it will be good to chat to the professionals.  i also start some classes tonight mainly for me and to let milly meet some new friends, although we have a certificate from our vet!!!! Milly is Socialized!!!! the vet holds puppy classes for 3 weeks just to give advice, microchip, and meet new puppy friends it was well worth on the last night milly could not wait to get into the vets!!!!! :-)