I have 11month old dalmation who is very placid and friendly around other dogs, she has a couple of dog friends she always meets in the park when out roughly the same age, a gsd and a lab, she has known them since 6 month old. The problem is these two dogs play quite rough, grabbing the scruff of her neck and sometimes her collar and generally jumping and nipping her. Today when out with her we all happened to be in the same place and the two of them had her lying on the ground and were both ahaving a go at her, she doesn't complain try to have a go back, just runs away but comes back for more. I felt sorry for her today when the two of them were having a go, should I have stopped it? The two owners didn't seem concerned and just told their dogs to stop bullying her but laughing at the same time. Am I being over-protective? What could I say without falling out with these dog owners. If I put my dog on the lead that'll be her getting punished and thats not fair is it. She doesn't get hurt or yelps or anything but it's not very pleasent to watch her pinned down getting pulled about. Will she learn to retaliate back or is this just her nature?

It sounds like normal dog play, if they over do it she will yelp and they will stop, grit you teeth and let her get on with it, she is learning how to deal with dogs.

Maybe you should keep your dog away from these dogs. You dont want her to start playing rough to other dogs because of the way she plays with these two as that will cause you a lot of problems. If you see them coming why dont you head in another direction or distract her with a toy. If you see the owners just tell them that you are worried about the effect there dogs will have on yours as she is still quite young. I dont think putting her on a lead is punishing her. If you just move to another place away from those dogs and let her off Im sure she will be fine :)   

Sara do you really believe that 3 dogs of the same age playing together will cause problems. IMO not letting a dog socialise with friendly dogs is more likely to cause problems, you can always call her away if you think she has had enough.

The fact is Jackie_H spotty dog seems generally worried about her dogs welfare. If shes not happy with this type of play and thinks its too rough then she should not let her dog be a part of it.

This is where the owner has to really concentrate, SaraN. To prevent a dog playing with others is as damaging as letting the play become too rough. The play should be allowed to continue as long as possible, but as soon as a dog becomes distressed about it (note, the dog, not the owner ;) !) then all should be called away and given a reward for responding to the owner, then released to play again.

Leave them playing together.  If she is not yelping, then they are not hurting her!

My two girls were playing very rough earlier this evening, teeth baring and grabing each others necks and pinning one other on the floor, it was all play.  We have had on a couple of occasions it got to rough, one yelped, they both jumped back looked at eachother and started playing again!!!

If you stop your dog from playing you will cause serious problems IMO

Absolutely let them play. If they're all aproximately the same size (as opposed to say....my 75LB Doberman and my 5LB Chihuahua) they'll be fine. If things get too rough, your pup will let them know. And most dogs will respect her yelp or if she shows any pain....they'll back off. I've seen it many a million times and have had dogs all my life. They don't want to hurt her. This is all normal and natural play that even dogs in the wild do. It's practice actually for the hunt and kill. It's play and very healthy for normal socialization. Don't worry. It's good for her. If she has had enough and tires, she'll come to you or you can leave. Let her be a  puppy. That's my .02 worth.

Carrie

Sorry - I disagree there Ice Queen - young dogs will carry on playing and making the most of social contact like this even if they aren't happy - maybe even trying to get away, only to be bowled over by an over enthusiastic playmate.  Often they learn that the only way to stop this kind of 'play' is to up their defence and make it an attack, and once that is succesful they WILL repeat it.  It is the owners job to manage playtime and to make the decision to withdraw the dog if necessary.

I'd say leave her to play, they will soon back off I suspect if it gets to boisterous for her and she tells them so - she's going back and as long as she is not bothered then I would try not to be either. They all sound about the same size and I think I'd grit my teeth and leave them to play, maybe if your concerned then stay there for a shorter time.
Karen

Thanks for all your replies, I didn't mean to start a major disagreement though. I was standing watching her thinking surely she'll come over to me if she's had enough but at the same time felt sorry for her. She never yelped so must be o.k. I probably am being over-protective and will talk to the owners rather than watch her like a hawk next time. I tried to make my exscuses and we went ot go but they were walking the same way. I think I need to have an extra coffee before I walk her to chill that little bit more and let her have fun. Thanks again for all your replies, very helpful.

Hi

My 1 year old girl Luna a choc lab and her best friend a 11 months old gsd, Bella plays like this all the time. If Bella gets to rough Luna comes running back to me, and stands between my legs. She then stands with me for a while until she runs away to play again.

If she doesn't come running back to me, we let them play.

I always look at her for signs. GSD's are very vocal, at least Bella is, so it can sound serious when they play, but you can see on their bodylanguage that its only play.

Jeanette

But she wrote: "she doesn't complain try to have a go back, just runs away but comes back for more."

I agree...that if the dog is obviously miserable and submissive, crying and obviously not enjoying it at all, then some intervention would be applicable. But, she's a good sized dog at 11 months. She's not bellowing or tucking her tail. She's going back for more. This is normal play. She'll develop normally and with some confidence if allowed to do what she wants and interact. The two dogs on top of her with her underneath are showing her that they want to play, but they're making up the rules. And she's saying, "Ok, ok....I'll do it how you want." She's younger and that's just the way it works. They have to practice setting up an order of heirarchy, an instinct that wolves, their anscestors do in order to survive. They have to have a "government". This is good and natural and best not to interfer more than is absolutely necessary.

Even with my Chi's who are a lot smaller than the Dobe, they still let him know (g-r-r-r) if he's getting too pushy and he backs off. Still, when he was younger and not as wise, I did have to watch him because one false move could really injure such tiny dogs. Now, he knows how to be more careful and they can all play unsupervised out in the yard for a while. If he's running near them, he sometimes leaps over them to avoid bumping them. He knows now.

You'll know if it's positively more than she can take and if she's cowering. Then you can get her with some dogs that play less rough. But it sounds by your post that she is holding her own and she is after all....almost a year old. She is not a tiny pup anymore. She'll be ok. IMO.

Carrie

my 2 do this in the house, my 2 being a 10 year old collie x male and a 19 month old GSD female, they both give as good as they get and it does look pretty rough a lot of the time to us that is, obvioulsy not to them or they would stop, my hubby gets quite worried about their rough play and tries to stop them but, as a lot of you have said if there is no yelping etc involved then it is perfectly normal behaviour if either of my 2 hurt each other and yes it is usually my GSD, (after all she is still a puppy lol)  ive never seen a dog move so fast to give kisses!! she apologises to him straight away to let him know she didnt mean it, he either chooses to leave it at that and walk away if hes had enough or he will continue their game? to me its all fine,  to us it looks and sounds horrible but to them its just their way of life. :-)

Michelle 

Yes, I can relate to your description of rough play. My Chi who's 5lb and Chi mix who's 15lb play rough and it looks like the little one is getting wooped, but she just goes right back at it. They have fun.

It's the dogs who are not exposed to this puppy socialization who can become dog aggressive. They don't learn how to act around other dogs and don't learn about the setting up of an order between eachother. Male Dobermans are notorious for having a tendancy toward excessive male to male dog aggression. It was reiterated to me by my breeder, as well as by my trainer that Lyric, my male Dobe should be exposed early and a lot to not only human and situational socialization, but to dog to dog, to let him play with other dogs. And yes, they can get rough. He plays with a Weimeraner pup a little smaller than he is and my nieces mix breed boy who is also smaller. They play hard, but my nieces dog is about 2 yrs old and gets tired of the puppy brat stuff after a little play time and then gives a little growl and walks away. The puppies, mine and the Weim finally get the message and leave him alone. Then they tear into eachother. Sometimes one gets bitten to hard by accident and gives a little yelp. Then the other, like you described gives kisses as if to say, "Woops....sorry." This is how they learn to interact and learn that it's all normal. That way when a dog comes along and something isn't normal about it, your dog will recognize it and not go headlong into a confrontation. They'll be able to sense when something isn't right because they will have seen what is normal.

That's the same idea behind socializing a Doberman (and all dogs) thoroughly and excessively with friendly strangers. They learn that strangers are normal and fine most of the time. Then when a robber comes into the house at midnight and you're sleeping, they know that this IS NOT what they've been experiencing all this time with strangers. This is super weird and then they go into their protection mode. It's so vital to socialize dogs, especially Dobermans and other protection dogs to prevent them from making a mistake and indiscriminately biting the wrong person or acting aggressively for no good reason.

I kind of got off the subject, but in a way it's all the same thing. And yes, you don't want a puppy to have frightening experiences with dogs or people or bombard them when they're not ready. But the poster above described a dog that doesn't sound fearful, just recognizing that she is not top dog in that play group.

Carrie

From your post it sounds like you and the other owners are standing around while they play.

Could you not let them have a quick play and then walk off in the opposite direction so your girl will follow you.  This gives her a chance to get out of the situation if she wants to, but you are not actually intervening to split them up.

Sandra

If you walk away and your puppy feels they must follow, you are stopping the game, if your pup does not follow then your are going to have to call and if that does not work you are going to have to start some recall training.

If you need to move on then call the dog and go but don't please stop a game because you are not used to dogs playing. Hang in there and watch you will begin to understand how things work out. Sure anyone who owns more than one dog would not be at all surprised or concerned by what you describe but I can understand if you only have one it does seem some what alarming and too rough, but believe me it is normal and don't stop it unless you wish to move on for reasons of time or because you wish to do some training.

I think it is that kind of situation that we expect animals to behave as we would.  I'm waiting for the weather to clear up to get the chance to introduce Glazby to another boxer - hoping that they will want to play.  I know that dogs don't integrate as we do and won't walk up to each other and shake hands etc lol - I've got to expect a bit of rough and tumble as its their way.  I'm going to be looking for real agression before I call them apart as I think it often looks (and sounds) much worse to us loving owners than it is to the dogs!! 

If the pup does not follow then she is obviously not as concerned about the situation as the owner is.  It would give her the opportunity to escape from it should she want to.

I would leave the decision to the dog, but give her a 'get out clause' should she want it.

Leaving the decision to the dog may be OK with some breeds but with most if you walk away you expect the dog to follow, or am I way out of touch. When it comes to the dogs I am the one to make the decisions and expect the dog to follow me, and I try not to perform an action that will lead to their deciding to do something different.

Sorry Carrie, IMHO it's not always the dogs who aren't exposed to 'puppy play' who become dog aggressive - it's the ones who are allowed totally unsupervised playtime - where one more wary pup is bundled by one or more bigger pups and then learns aggression is the only way to stop it.....

Digger, who is suggesting unsupervised play, unless you walk away the play is not unsupervised and if a dog is crying and the others don't not move back (very unusual) then of course you intervene. But well bred pups who have been in the nest for a reasonable time know how to deal with the play situation and should be neither scared nor aggressive.

Unsupervised is different to unattended - you can be present and still not supervising (ie removing a puppy if things get too rough......)

Dont think this lady is taking her eyes off - but think we are getting to the nit picking stage, have made my point clear and have no more to add.

Hi Spotty Dog

Having read all the replies I would probably be inclined to split the difference.  Let them all play for a few minutes then put one on lead and let the other two play, a few minutes later put one of the loose ones on a lead and let the on-lead one off. 

When you have dogs playing in a group like this is is an excellent time to practice recalls, stays, all sorts of things.

I remember when Saffy was younger and was playing with other dogs - it would be quite scary to me, but she loved it.  HOWEVER, when she was scared herself, or it got a bit too rough or noisy for her (she hates any noise/growling when playing with other dogs), she would come and stay beside me.  If the dog she didn't want to play with came over, she would just move away from it and come back to me again. Now, she seems to know even from a distance which dogs will play with her and which won't even if she hasn't met them before (must be body language).

My friend has a GSD puppy which is quite uppity (barks at other dogs) and sort of 'creeps' towards them, making the other dog, (even Saffy who knows her) a bit wary.  When she and Saffy get close, they recognise each other and play really well.  My friends dog does get a warning bark from Saffy though if she steps over the line too far!! Once Saffy even made her yelp, but the puppy came back for more and must have realised that Saffy didn't mean to hurt her. I think if your puppy was really bothered she would keep coming over to you, and not keep going back to the other dogs.

Fiona