Hi,
     Coming back from Tesco along the Chester Rd this afternoon I saw an elderly man with a middle aged BC on a lead, then all of a sudden a staffieX (sad to say) and a Staffie (equally sad to say) arrived out of no where and attacked the BC I was in the car, a youngish bloke about 20 arrived tried to call the dogs off NO CHANCE, he tried and managed to catch the StaffieX and put him on a lead, but obviously couold not get close enough then to the other dog without the StaffieX trying to get back in the action ;(
I pulled up and offered to hold the StaffieX away from the action. The owner then managed to get hold of the Staffie but he would not let go all the while the BC was screaming and the old man was in tears. I picked the StaffieX up and put him in the back of the car (in Sal's cage) she wasn't with me (thank God)
the Staffie still wouldn't loose and when the owner tried to pick him up all he succeded in doing was lifting the poor BC off his feet as well. I grabbed two 2lt bottles of lemonade from my shopping on the vack seat of the car and as I poured them over the Staffie, his owner had a good hold on the collar and managed to lift him away when he breathed thank God. All this only took about 4-5 minutes, fromstart to finish but seemed like hours.
    It seems the dustmen had left the gate open and the bloke had let his dogs out into his back garden and they'd got out. The old man was near to home and the young bloke offered and did take him and the BC to the vets.
     There were about 6 people standing around at the end, and a woman whose house this happened outside of was in tear and had run for a bucket of water.
    Did we do the right thing? What would you have done?
Karen
 

How awful :(  :(
I've always been led to believe that water (or in your case, lemonade) is a good way to break up a dog fight, but I could be completely wrong. The good thing is, it worked on this occasion.
I really hope the BC is alright, and the poor man too :(

liberty

Hi Karen

I've been told if two dogs fight to take their hind legs and pull. They will loose their balance and let go of the dog they are biting.

I haven't seen it, but its a theory.

Jeanette

As I posted a few weeks up I was in a similar situation..the fight was between an EBT and a staff.The owners were pulling both dogs in opposite directions  and the EBT wouldn't let go.I grabbed a large stick (about as thick as a babies arm) and hit the EBT across the nose...not hard enough to do any damage but hard enough to make him let go.The dogs seperated immediately.
Glad you got them seperated...hope the BC is ok.
Feel so sorry for the BC and the old man!!
Unfortunately Staffies  etc will not let go if you take them off their feet they just hang on and you can do more damage because you are adding to the force of the pull.
Archer

Blocking their breathing thru their nose would require they open their mouth to breath. So sticking fingers up the nose - yuk, indeed - would achieve this.
Peper spray or something powder - from your shopping? - would make them sneeze, but its not very often someone would be carrying something like this around?
But i think you acted well, and the lemonade was quick thinking. 

Wouldn't want to get close enough to stick my fingers up their nose...toooo much risk of being bitten!!!
Archer

If it was an entire male & had a colllar on you could how can I say this tactfully grab the offending dog by the collar & his male bits too Saw this happen at a show once. I have smelling salts in my dogs 1st aid kit & was shown by a greyhound trainer how they used them to get greyhounds & other dogs apart if they were fighting

im sure pulling their back legs would work with most breeds but not so much with bull terriers - they are designed to be able to keep a hold regardless. I think the water idea is the only one id have thought of - anything that keeps your hands out of the way has got to be best.

Hope the poor bc n old guy are ok...

Andy

Something to distract them such as water, (or something wet!) I think is best. But this will not always work and you don't always have access to something like that!  Thing with dogs fighting is thats in a way its a natural thing, they always have and always will (unless people only breed for temperment and health) the natural thinking of a human is to break it up which can end up in hospital. :(  The thing in this case is I get the impression the collie was defenceless and didn't want to fight fight so without Human aid would have ended up dead. :(

Thanks all,
             I was told once the only way to seperate a Stafford from his "victim" was to push his/her nose into the other dog so he/she can't breathe. But as they weren't my dogs and I did not know any of them from Adam, I would not of been willing to do this, I think the BC was saved mostly by his thick coat, thats why the owner got the StaffieX off so quickly he only had hold of coat not dog. Very scary though, and I left thinking "there for the grace of God" it happened to be the BC and his owner but it could have been anyone. :(
And your right Rox, the BC was very defenceless. I am just thankful (don't mean that to sound terrible) now that it was a BC not another Staff or similar coming down the road.
Karen

I used to work at a boarding kennels, i worked there for 5 1/2 years, and in that time i had to break up 2 fights, 1 due to human error- kennel maid cleaning out forgot to lock one of the kennels properly, this was a fight between a mastiff cross and a gsd, the kennel maid that was cleaning out came to myself and another maid to tell us, what seemed forever to stop was more than likely only 5 minutes, these were two big dogs, im only 5'2" and the other maid was shorter than me, we ended up grabbing each dog by the collar and using a broom, a hose and an empty kennel to part them, the maid that left the door open pushed on the gsds chest while i held him, i put the hose in the mastiffs face and the other maid pulled the mastiff back into a kennel and shut the door. Both dogs taken to vets luckily just cuts and grazes, kennel maid left before the day was out. the other fight was 2 JRTs from th e same house hold and there was a bucket of water to hand, and the dogs were kenneled seperatley.
These thing unfortunely do happen, and if you have something wet to hand use that, not forgetting to hold the dogs to pull apart, i have also been told that if its a dog fighting then to grab his testicles, just make sure you can move very fast :D , and the other way is to hit the dogs over the head/nose/body whatever you can get and again grab dogs and run, knocking the dogs off balance doesnt work as it just puts the dog that you knocked over under the other so making the problem worse.
Well done though i know how hard it is to break up a fight, and how you must of felt afterwards, but also good on the staffie owner for helping the BC owner and his dog
tanya

I have heard that if you cant get them to let go and they are wearing a collar to twist it just enough to contstrict breating and they will release.  Obvioulsy as soon as they release then pull the dog away and loosen your grip.  That way your hands and fingers are no where near the mouth area.

I was once at a rescued Greyhound funday when a Westie had been grabbed by the side of the neck by a greyhound. There was lots of shouting, the westie screaming and the owner and others trying to pull them apart, which was just making the situation worse and the poor Westie was already covered in blood.
I remembered something I had read somewhere about breaking up fights, so I grabbed the Greyhound by the base of the tail and lifted his back legs off the ground as high as I could (don't know how I managed to lift a big male Greyhound off the ground, adrenaline I guess, but I could hardly move my arm next day!) He immediately let go and the owner got the Westie away, who wasn't too badly hurt considering the amount of blood.
Now I don't know if an aggressive dog would have turned around and attacked me, but the Greyhound just looked around as if to say 'what did you do that for?'
Liz

Blimey I know what you mean about greyhounds.  Ive got one who caught hold of a cat in our garden there was absolutely no way she was going to let go, if we'd had tried to pull it out it would have caused more damage to the cat and there was no chance of pulling her mouth open - in the end I twisted her collar and she kind of spat it out :( :( but after I was shaking like a leaf :( She looked like butter wouldn't melt afterwards too

I have had to deal with a good few fights with my own dogs, a great dane and a cocker spaniel, not the easiest to break apart but i also found that a broom handle or something over the nose not hard but just enough to give them a fright, worked the best, i have seen the stunt of pulling the dogs legs with a lab but this just dragged both dogs to the ground and they carried on, i suppose it just depends.  luckily with my own dogs it was often just a case of shouting to them that i was leaving and the golden word walkies!!!!  :-)

We have a fair few fights in our house...with fosters in and out :D
I find the best thing is to disorientate them...usually by throwing a towel /jumper/coat over them .
Hasnt failed so far thankfully! :D
Donna x

Thats a good idea Donna

I will try that one next time as we now have 2 great danes and the spaniel, must say that the great danes always come off worst and they always go back to see if the other one is ok, but as for the spaniel she just does not give up  ;-D

The safest way to break up a fight is to grab the tail at the base and lift the back legs clear of the ground while walking backwards.  If the dog has a docked tail then grab the hind legs and pull the dog backwards. 
Dogs get their power from their back legs when they are fighting and when you lift their back legs clear of the ground then they are at a disadvantage. It's also safest for you as they cannot turn round and bite you when you are moving backwards.
Don't wade in and grab collars as you can get bitten.

The fight I saw between two staffies at a ahow(same owners dogs too)wasn't ended when the guy lifted one up by its hind legs as the dogs jaws had locked onto the other dog, It was the staffie judge who ran out of the ring & stopped it by grabbing the collar of the male & squeezing it's bits. It almost immediately released the other staffie. It had a massive head & had attacked the bitch for no obvious reason.

I also saw two alsatians having a set too & no way would you be able to have lifted up the dogs by their hind legs unless you were a seven foot tall body builder.

The only time I have been bitten was in the foot by a Golden that had set about a really quiet Border Collie at training . I did the collar & bits(owner was too frightened & the BC owner had fainted) & the Golden let go & then bit me in the foot when he was back with his owner, found out afterwards he was always biting his owners to get his own way It never attacked another dog while I was around tho', i now have the smelling salts which are quite effective for most breeds.

I understand that dog fighters have breaking sticks use to get the dogs apart don't know how they are used tho'

I separate fighting German Shepherds all the time by using the tail method.  Twisting or squeezing testicles is an effective method of breaking a dogs concentration when it's locked on.
It's more technique than brute force :)

Are these your dogs then that you spilt up regularly in this way?  I've had GSDs for years & the only scrap I've seen was these two Alsatian dogs owned by the same guy, believe me no technique pulling them apart by the tails & hind legs would have worked. No I didn't step in as I was in the ring with someone else's boxer puppy. A working terrier guy stepped in & collar & b*lled(his words)the worst one whilst his mate did the other, they were obviously very used to splitting up scrapping dogs. Stuck in my mind as shortly afterwards the terrier guy was in court for poaching !.

My dogs and other peoples dogs Moonmaiden.  I have split up many many German Shepherd fights :(

I must just have been lucky over the past 46 years then Only one set too & it was split up by turning a hose pipe on the agressor before she could get at the other bitch Even had 11 at one stage all in the house 7 males(including three stud dogs) & 4 females(all 11 entire) & no fights :o

Nothing do with my training of course ;) & always having a deputy in the shape of a very strong alpha female all of the time, the set too I prevented was after my old alpha bitch had died & her beta bitch was in season & in the kennel, the males were never invloved., case of the other two bitches vying for status whilst the top bitch was out of view

Dogs I tend to have to deal with are usually aggressive males with behavioural issues from an adolescent age onwards.  That's why they tend to have so much attitude :)

My dogs had loads of attitude but never had behaviourial problems, not even my schutzhund trained dog who I rescued at a year old having never been trained & had been kennelled with a very dog aggressive champion show dog. I trained him from scratch & he never had any aggression towards other dogs, might have been his breeding of course which was all german & agrression has no place of course in the GSD make up. Said show champion was well known as being a fighter in & out of the ring & had a incorrect temperament.

I must really have been lucky

Schutzhund dogs need to be of steady temperament and pass a temperament test which includes strange dogs approaching and walking close to them when they are tied up alone and a crowd of people milling around them first so it's unlikely that a Schutzhund qualified dog is going to be much of a problem.  It does happen of course occasionally as there are never any guarantees with animal behaviour - but it's far less likely than one off the street of an unknown quantity :)

Do they really Lara ? I would never have known that without you telling me. You do Schutzhund in the UK then or wherever you are ?

Hm perhaps I should have known that before I trained my dogs with one of Germany's Top Woman Schutzhund trainers/judges ? :O You would have though she would have done that with me wouldn't you ? If you have done schutzhund & competed in the last two years national tests she will have been your judge ;)

I used to be involved in Schutzhund Moonmaiden - I stopped mainly because I didn't care much for the people who went.  You don't get any Schutzhund qualifications in any country unless you have first passed the BH
You will, of course, know what that is?

When I trained my dog we didn't have Schutzhund here in the UK but my friend took me though all the stages from BH(then known as something else colloquially in Germany, but can't remember what) My boy came from quite strong working lines but he was a real pussy cat with everyone. Had to have instant control as he was 32 ins at the shoulder & I'm only 5' 2". It came in very useful when I was mugged(well an attempted mugging) The police werequite impressed with his detention technique. Couldn't allow it now of course in case the poor wee laddie got hurt or frightened

I presume you mean the people invloved in Schutzhund in the UK or was it Germany ? I've only mixed with the German Schtzhund folks & they are all very pleasant. My friend had the top Schutzhund dog in Germany only one thing he wasn't a GSD he was an ISDS BC who worked sheep & did breed as well.

Yes Schutzhund UK :)

Ah that explains it then

When we had a family dog who was dog-aggressive on the lead (as soft as a lamb off the lead) we always had to talk a hefty stick with us to whack whichever dog was most likely to let go first.

*i now have the smelling salts which are quite effective for most breeds* - Thats a good idea, hadn't thought of that before I might get some today

as they cannot turn round and bite you when you are moving backwards. Really????????????????????????????????

Has someone told the dogs that.......................... :D

Lift a dog's hind legs clear of the ground by its tail and it won't be able to turn round and bite you when you are moving backwards :)

I can't imagine a dog, with both of it's back legs off the ground being able to hold it's balance to turn round and bite.

i have read all the post and some are good ideas but when a stafford or EBT or most bull breeds or x i would not try and hit them on the nose, body or head at all because they are fighting breeds and might think that they are being attacked and might get more aggressive  i would also not pick there back legs of the floor as they are very good at hanging on and this might just make them hold on more. the water is a good idea and glad it worked. 
i have seen 5 dog fights but only 2 with Stafford's 1 benign my 2 dogs and what i have seen with the stafford is blocking the nose is best, you do this by holding the collar or if there is no collar try grading skin (i know hard) and then pushing the dog down in to the bite to stop them breathing.  this worked on my 2 done by me and 3 out of the 5 fights i have seen

Ive seperated a few fights (k, more than a few).

Thing 1: stop ANYONE who is watching from screaming....... this makes it worse especially if it is one of the fighting dogs owners. Also stop any shouting, dogs will take this as encouragement.

Try and avoid kicking/hitting the dogs, they will just blame the pain on the other dog and fight more.

My best method is tail and scruff/balls and scruff , tail first, move backwards, grab scruff so dog cannot bite you. Not fool proof but then the only way to guarantee NOT getting bitten in a dog fight is to walk away!

Its no good pulling one dog out of a fight if there is no one to restrain the other dog, the restrained dog will just get bitten again.

Em

Hi

Well this was kind of what I meant, but oh its hard to explain in english, when its not my first language.

But I forgot the tail bit - must remember that, incase of running into any dogfight.

Jeanette

But what do you grab hold of, if the dogs fighting are bitches?

Not had that (yet ;) ) - but our little border terrier used to hate the OH's mother's dog (a corgi/collie cross - just don't ask ) when he came to live with us after Nan's death.    We used the bucket of water and broom handle pushed between whichever front legs you could see - worked without too much blood!    The other thing that did work - spectacularly I do have to say - but not one that I would advise was when our 5 year old just DIVED on top of them - both dogs were so shocked, they just started licking him - and forgot about the fight!

Margot

Sticking your finger up her bum can have the same *suprise* factor as the testicle method has the *ouch* factor in male dogs :)

read this post and can not believe some of the misinformation given out on a subject every dog owner should be well versed in as it can happen to anyone at anytime out of the blue.the first thing to do is not panic , unless there is a good size difference between the dogs then they will not do nearly as much damage quickly as most people think.if it is a warm day or the dogs are not super fit they are quite liable to need to stop pretty quickly for breath and could be picked up at this point when both are free from holds.the best and most humane way to stop a dogfight is to carry a breaking stick which is a tapered wedge of wood like a plained down hammer handle etc which is inserted into the gap at the back teeth and used as a lever to open the mouth.as most do not carry such devices though (although certainly bull terrier owners and owners of powerful quarelsome dogs should imo) then the next best thing is to choke a dog from its hold by placing your hand under the collar and simply twisting lightly to cut off the air so dog will come free for breath you need to be careful not to use too much pressure with this method.if no collars or leads are present thenas someone mentioned pushing the dogs nose into his opponent can help but it is not as instant as the above mentioned techniques.many of these other techniques like hose pipes etc may work well for other breeds but if talking about bull terrier breeds then all it does is simply cool them down so they can fight longer.

Cooper has mentioned  Breaking sticks for use on Staffys and bull breeds but I have read that these shouldnt be used by the novice as they can cause  injury to the dog (injury aside from the fight that is )

Note:these are NOT to be used on other breeds of dog

Sorry but if you have two large dogs attacking one another they will inflect a lot of dammage to each other The local stud Labrador that is allowed to roam is a replacement for the guys previous two bitches who were left to fight it out & they both ended up having to be PTS due to the severe damage they inflicted on each other

The staying calm is the most important that's why the terrier guy s who separated the two alsatians were so impressive no shouting just a quick  1 2 3 to co ordinate the "b*ll squeezing"& the dogs were separated. The owner was totally useless screaming at them to stop ! The terreir guy told him to shut up in a very anglo saxon way. The memory is still fresh with me even though it happened years ago

Re the piece of wood being carried Hm might be trickyif the owner is a young man & he got stopped by the police could be considered as a weapon by some officers

moonmaiden i am not saying dogs can not cause severe damage , i am saying that they can not do it in a very quick time (seconds) unless there is a big size difference, you mentioned the dogs were "left to fight it out" well i never said that should happen , of course you need to get them apart at the first opportunity.the breaking stick i use is a pvc design and could not really be mistaken for a weapon so maybe that is better than wood for some.
lel i never saw any damage done by the use of a breaking stick but then agan i took the time to learn how to use one properly and safely.like anything else they are only a danger in the wrong hands, they are very handy for peace of mind for myself.

Hope i am not repeating anythign anyone else has said, but someone mentioned theywould be worried about separating bull breeds ....these  are the ones who will most probably not attack a human even in a fight because they had to be bred to be handled when their adrenalin was up.

I really hope that BC recovers - an attack like that could make him dog aggressive for life :( but it's  good that the young man did offer to take owner and dog home etc.....

Lindsay
X

We have used the 'breaking stick' method many times when splitting up same-sex aggression fights between two old female terriers I used to have.  We didn't have a 'breaking stick' as such, and until I read your post i never knew they existed.  We just used our common sense to try and get the jaw to release as quick as poss.  we used anything that came to hand...TV remote control, mobile phone, kitchen utensils...basically anything that we could get in to the back of the mouth, and work on levering the jaws open.  Worked every time.  The trick was to remove the dog asap once you have got them apart...but with terriers it is easy as you can just pick one up.  can't imagine what i'd do if they were big dogs and i was on my own.. ;(

All the scruff pulling, back-leg pulling and choking in the world won't work with these guys.  Block their nose, and they'll just breathe through the side of their mouth....the only way we could get them apart was to lever the jaw open.... We did get bitten on occasion, but I'd rather have a bite to my own hand, than have to deal with the left-over carnage from a full-scale terrier fight.

Fortunately i don't have to put up with this behaviour at the mo (current residents are all very civil with each other) but i would use this method again for stopping terrier fights, and wouldn't waste time faffing about with anything else.

Cooper, do you have a link or address for the PVC breaking stick?

not the same one i use as he no longer makes them but here are some pvc sticks

http://www.pbreporter.com/superstick.htm

I have been involved in separating a few fights in my time and can state that hoses, water etc generally don't work if the fight is serious, nor does picking up the legs and dragging the dog - like a pull toy it just holds on harder.

The only time you can get them apart is when they come up for more air and a better hold - blocking noses does not work with all breeds as they can still breath through their mouths.

Both these methods can be used if you are on your own.

1.  Make sure dogs have tight collars able to withstand a lot of pressure.  Tie one dog to a tree or other immovable object.
Put the lead on the other one and manouver them so that the dog tied to a tree cannot come any further forward and the dog you are holding cannot go further forward.  When both come up for air - you may have to wait a few minutes, get the dog you are holding well away as fast as possible and in a secure area before hte other one chews though its lead

2.  Manouver the dogs so that there is one each side of a door or (high) gate.  Again as the dogs come up for air or a better hold gradually shut the door.  Again this may take a few minutes but ultimately you will be able to shut the door between them so they are separate.

Next:

Clean yourself down and check for injuries, you may not always have been aware of them as they happen.  Treat them.

Hose dogs down to wash off blood and muck.  If any punture wounds or tears, especially around the stomach or throat (risk of swelling and internal damage) ring vet and take them straight there - keeping separate en-route.  Take an ice pack with you for yourself if you have been bruised as the shock is bound to set in as soon as the dogs have been seen.