I will cut a long story short.  Bitch is let out on breeding agreement, accidentally gets mating with the carers own dog, returned to bitchs breeder when pups are 3 weeks old.  Bitch is painfully thin, nails are uncut has had severe ear infection.  Pups are immured in their own waste!  Bitch is in the name of her breeder, not the carers.  Breeder does not really want to let bitch go back, but carers are becoming threatening.  Does anyone know who will be the rightful owner of the bitch, bearing in mind that the breeder has footed all vet and food bills for the last year?
Any help or suggestions to pass on will be appreciated.

Whos name is on KC papers ? If she is microchipped - whos details are on the database. Whos details are registered for the vet ? And for any possible insurance that there may be????
Also is there any written agreement between the two ?

Breeders name is on KC papers and micro chip details.  Carers name is at the vets, although breeder always pays with her credit card at the time of treatment.  Should add that there was no formal contract drawn up just a verbal agreement.

Do the carers have any paperwork at all to say the bitch is theirs - ie receipt of sale etc?

Maybe worthwhile seeing a solicitor about this.
Are you the breeder ? In your verbal agreement was there any decision on what reasons the bitch would be returned to the breeder ? If so , was a situation like this ever mentioned ?
Verbal agreements have as much weight as a written agreement although they are of course a lot harder to prove as its one persons word against another . :rolleyes:
Breeder seems to have the edge here I would have thought with their details being on KC papers - plus the  credit card would be proof of paying for vet fees etc.

Carers have nothing.  They never paid anything towards the bitch.  She was aprrox 18 months old when they had her.  I,m not the breeder it is a friend of mine.  She doesn't do computers, so I offered to ask you guys on here for your opnions.

Your friend would need to assess what circumstances the bitch was homed under and whether there was ever any mention to the other party of the reasons given for bitches return to them

Although she was not "sold" to them it doesnt mean she can be just taken back by the breeder - which is why I would recommend seeing a solicitor.

Has your friend thought of offering a token payment for the bitches return ? Would the carers be willing to return the bitch then ?

There is no way that they will take any money offered for her.  The problem is that they do love her and their other dog, but are quite simply not capable of caring for them.  They are never walked, the ear infection that the bitch has had, has been going on since October last year.  My friend has had many an argument with them about not keeping up the treatment.  The worst part was finding out that she had all the treatment there and this poor girl gave birth to a huge litter with her inner ear swollen.  She came back with bold patches behind her ears where she has been scratching for so long.  They really are neglected.

Surely neglect or improper care for this poor girly would have been discussed as a reason for her return to them ?
Would the vet say the dogs are neglected ?
Though to be fair even dogs who are well loved and looked after can get recurring ear infections :rolleyes:

edited to say I have just read that the carers details are logged with the vet so he is under no obligation to tell you anything :(

Thats the problem even though my friend pays the bills, the vet won't tell her a thing.  She has told them many times that she is not happy with the way that the ear has been allowed to get so bad, but she feels like she is banging her head against a brick wall.  All she wants is for the girl to be cared for the way she deserves and in this home she knows that it won't be done.

personally i would say that legally the bitch belongs to whoevers name is on her papers ie the breeder. athough verbal contracts are legally binding in english law it has to be proven which is much harder to do than with a paper contract. were there any witnesses to the agreement? If not then it is one parties word against the other and the breeder would most likely win. In any case what was this contract? did they say the bitch would be returned? The fact that the breeder has also been paying the vets fees would count in her favour.

There also has to be "consideration" in contracts ie one person gives the other person something in exchange...the breeder let them have the dog and still paid for it, I can't actually see where the carer did something in return for this, unless the mating could be counted but im sure that courts would consider the neglect the animal has suffered in any decision.

If the carers get nasty i would call the RSPCA although they may not be able to do a lot im sure they would make some form of report that could be used in a court if it ever did get that far. As the breeder i the legal owner and does not wish the carer to take the dog back, if they did it would be theft.

In short i don't think the carer really has a leg to stand on.

Edit - I just saw the post about the vets refusing to tell her anything...... the simple solution would be to change the bitches Vets and get her registered there in the breeders name.

Jo
I am pretty positive they cannot just "keep" the bitch .

Although she wasnt sold she would be deemed as a gift , still making her the other partys property.

Unless the agreement mentioned that the bitch could indeed be taken back at any time by the breeder ?!

Lel yes but where is the proof, in law you have to prove things and unless the breeder specifically said the dog was a gift and someone else heard this.
This is the reason for doing it, to make it legally binding there MUST be consideration to stand up in court, this is why people sometimes say i will give you this car if you pay me £1 or this person can live in the house for the rest of their lives if they pay 50p a year. Even with guide dogs, if your puppy fails and you want it back you have to pay £1 which makes the dog legally yours, if they just gave them the dogs then they could turn round and say there was no consideration and so there is no contract and we want the dog back.

Well if I were the breeders I would have taken her to my vets and then get them to "record" the state she was in including my own pho's with date on film or use the camcorder to show what a state she is in.
I would not let her go back at all to somewhere she was not cared for.

KAREN  

But the breeder has voluntarily let the bitch live with these other people.
The vets is proof of this and the breeder has willingly paid for the costs.

If the bitch is currently with the breeder then it will be up to the other party to try and get her back . What this involves would depend on the amount of money they have to spend pursuing the matter :rolleyes:

As I mentioned previously , it looks to be more in the breeders favour because the bitch is still registered to them.

Either party can give their own account of what the verbal agreement was - and no body but the two of them will know which was the right version :rolleyes:

The breeder has to think of the bitches health and his/her own reputation as a breeder as to what actions they take next .

I agree totally with Lel, she has a better way with words than me too :)

Karen