Hi all, I had an experience this morning and I am curious to here both sides of the situation.  It isn't the first time this week that an aggressive owner of an aggressive dog has shouted at my 'pup' for approaching!  Now the first time it was a staffie and it was a lovely sunny evening and lots of people were walking their dogs.  Lana is now 7 1/2 months old and our recalls are getting better as Lana gets older but she does love to play and often approaches dog's to see if they are up for it!  Well, she only trotted off in the dirrection of the staffie before the owner shouted at her and threatened a kick - Luckily the OH was with me and called Lana away from "the nasty man with his nasty dog" and she came, but I was put out by the whole thing!  This morning we were in a busy park where you frequently come across dog's, horses, joggers and golfers - Lana spotted a BC (her best mate is a BC so she always goes over for a look :rolleyes:) as she approached, the owner put the lead on his dog and trotted off!  Lana followed them and ignored my calls, the man turned on her and really shouted, at which point she ran back to me.  I put her lead on and started to walk back to the car...However, I was sooo annoyed at all the shouting I went back and asked him if he thought that was appropriate behaviour towards a young 'over friendly' dog?  He said sorry but his dog is aggressive and would rip her to pieces - I told him I sympathise with his situation and that it cant be easy, and I agreed that he should be able to walk his dog in peace without being 'harrassed' by other dog's.  But my question is this, if a dog is that nasty/aggressive how should it be exercised and how would we know its charachter?  Surely it is inevitable that it will come into contact with another dog being walked (off lead) in a park.  Is my dog to blame for approaching?  My thoughts are that if my recalls were 100% every time does that fully protect my dog from nasty one's...Surely thats the beauty of a nice long walk, for the dog's to have a mingle a race and a chase???  I'm interested to hear your thoughts :)
Sarah

Everyone has the right to walk unmolested by other dogs; some owners have dogs that are extremely anti-social and the responsible ones put them on leads to avoid damage to your dog. Some owners may have dogs that are extremely nervous of other dogs approaching and become defensive, some may be rescue dogs that are being "rehabilitated" and some may be convalescing after an operation and some owners may be training their dogs and do not want to interact with yours.

My dogs are only allowed to play with dogs that I know are safe, who do not wear check or half check chains (dogs can be injured by getting a toe or tooth caught in these during play) and when I have asked the owners permission or vice versa.  Too many dogs can have or have had their temperaments ruined by dogs who "only want to play".  Because you don't know the character of other dogs and even if you ask the owners say theirs is fine when it is not to be followed by the other refrain "he has never done that before"!

Looking at it from the "other side of the fence" owners of breeds such as SBTs and others are trying their best to protect their breed from more bad press and try to prevent possible trouble.  Otherwise all of a sudden it can be your dog that was "attacked" for no reason when it has actually barged into their space!

I have had a dog that was extremely anti social, it was not a problem as he was under full control and on a lead in certain situations; unfortunately this did not prevent him being approached by dogs who were out of control and who were owned by people who did not extend the same courtesy to me that I did to them!  I also have an extremely highly trained dog who is a PAT dog and whose temperament I do not want jeopardised by rude dogs.

I exercise control over my dogs and I expect others to do the same; it matters not to me what their temperamant is as long as it does not interfere with my dogs.  Unfortunately many of the dog owners I meet have dogs with nowhere near 50% recall with their dogs or the foresight to avoid possible trouble but funnily enough they are the first to complain when I "prod" them out of the way!

I am afraid if people cannot control their dogs properly some of us are fed up of trying to reason with some dog owners and so we have given up on conversation!

One of mine does not have a 100% recall...he is therefore exercised on lead in the presence of other dogs.
I have no problem with people with unfriendly dogs exercising where ever they choose ...so long as they are on lead/under control.I do however lose my temper with people who have dogs they know are unfreindly and let insist that they are let off lead...thats whe the problem starts.
Archer

Exactly!

I had an Afghan who hated other dogs, cars, people etc and was therefore 99% of the time excercised on lead, when he was off lead he was muzzled but did tend to be 100% better with other dogs and people (he was never off lead with cars :D ) When on lead he would go mad at other dogs but people would still say "its ok he is friendly" these were people who obviusly were a bit dumb and couldnt see me struggling trying to stop my Afghan from eating their dog :D :D  basically if a dog is on lead it is best to steer clear unless the owner gives the ok because if a fight were to occur it would be the dog off the lead which would be blamed to be out of control.  Also dogs if a dog is on lead it may be slightly more fiesty because it knows it doesnt have full control of itself as it cant "get away" from another dog.

I know in an ideal world all dogs would have a 100% recall, but unfortunately most don't.

I have one young dog that has an excellent recall, but is not really interested in other dogs anyway.  My other one will run up to any dog looking to play, he is not nasty but his recall leaves a lot to be desired when he sees a potential playmate.

I feel I have every right to exercise them both off lead in a safe environment. 

I am afraid my view is very different to a dog exercised off lead when the owner says >>his dog is aggressive and would rip her to pieces<<., this dog is a danger to everyone and I am sure we have all met one on our walks.  The playfull dog may be a nuisance but that is all.  The aggressive one may well kill your dog or at the very least turn a young dogs temperement.  I think this dog should be exercised on the lead in an area where it will not meet other dogs off lead.  At the very least it should wear a muzzle.

IMO it is totally irresponsible to do otherwise.
Sandra

Sorry Rozzer,
But one of mine is extremely nervous of other dogs and I've also shouted at out of control dogs coming towards her (you can never tell how freindly an approaching dog is). I can't risk my girl getting worse than she already is!!  IMO unless you have a 100% recall you shouldn't be letting you dog off the lead!

I get very annoted with people who allow their dogs to come up to mine. I exercise mine off lead, but as soon as i see another dog approaching i put mine on.
For example, yesterday i was out enjoying our walk and a very playful spaniel bounced straight over, i had seen it coming so put mine on leads. It came straight over and mine had a go at it. The bloke had NO lead with him.
My fear is that mine will have a go and then get ripped to shreds by the one they have a go at.
My sisters dog was ripped to pieces by a pack of greyhounds, who broke from their leads (the stupid woman was walking 6 of them). She suffered psycholigcally as a result, therefore now tries to attack any dog that comes near her.
That could be your puppy! You KNOW your dog, but you DON'T KNOW other peoples.

I do appreciate your opinions, I admit I have always had the same opinion as Sandrah.  Thing is I am always told by friends and people I meet on walks that afghans should not be let off lead - I have tried very hard to make Lana a decent member of canine society :D she always approaches with caution and sometimes doesn't bother at all, it's just the playful that she tends to pursue :rolleyes: - I think that due to her size people think she is older than she is?  I love letting her off for a run and she always looks to see where we are - In fact just before our little incident I called her out of a mid-play with an airdale and was well chuffed with her, then she ruined it :rolleyes:  I think I would prefer her to be off lead if she was to be attacked.

Since my last post I have discussed this with the OH, we agree that her recalls are much better and probably very good for her age and breed, however we agree that we should be able to call her away from ANYTHING, so we are taking the long rein tomorrow and going back to basics!!!  Thanks all, I agree that you shouldn't have a bouncy puppy in your faces, but I dont want a dangerous dog in mine!
Sarah

Hmm, i can see both sides of the fence. My BC is obedient but she is not keen on other dogs. She will completely ignore them and prefers them to ignore her. HOwever if another dog approaches and pesters her, (well sniffs her for more that 10 seconds) she gets uncomfortable and is likely to snap. For that reason i keep her away from other dogs, but i do exercise her off lead, because, keeping her on a lead all the time would make her worse, she wouldn't get enough exercise and she would become even more defensive because she cannot escape. She will not rip another dog to pieces, but if the other dog retaliated who knows what would happen. I find you can tell if an approaching dog is a problem as the owner may put it on a lead or call it away. If the other dog is on a lead i either call my dogs to heel or put them on a lead, just in case.
My retriever though would be happy to go up to all and sundry if i let her, but i try to make sure it only happens if i know the dog is ok. However, i certainly wouldn't be happy with someone shouting at my dog, as has happened several times, but i suppose if you were very worried that your dog was going to fight it may be your only defense though. As long as the aggressive dog is well trained and under control then the problem will be the fault of the dog that was allowed to approach them, surely?
Good luck with your recall training, i've had to go back to basics with my retriver after a disasterous walk tonight! :-(

I think that it is a difficult problem, what to do if another dog rushes up to you. I have a neighbour who has had operations on her feet and they are still painful. She hates dogs that rush up to her as sometimes they tread on her toes. A particular problem is another neighbour's year-old chocolate lab who always charges and jumps up at everyone :( I am a wimp and don't like to say anything (although I will have to soon as I'm fed up with muddy paw prints on my coat). My other neighbour says that she will hit the dog if it jumps up at her :( I can see her side of it, but think that it is a bit extreme to hit the dog :( However, at a year old, the owner should have enough control to stop it doing that - she never does anything and never apologises for the mud :(

Daisy

Hiya Daisy,

In regards to your neighbours problem with her other neighbours teenage labrador, maybe the labs owners are not aware that under the Dangerous Dogs act, they could be prosecuted for their dogs behaviour, even if it is just jumping up to say hello.  This type of behaviour is not acceptable from any dog, whatever the breed or reason for it.  Imagine if it was a small child :(.  I would have a quiet word with the lab owners, just because a breed is quite well known for this problem, it is not acceptable to ignore it.  I have two working labs and they have both been trained from the 'off' not to jump up.

I'm sure that if you had a friendly word, it would be sorted out, I'm sure that you neighbour with the foot problem is not the only one to have been jumped up at.

Good luck-be brave, its in the dogs best interests.
Ali :)

Ali - thanks for the reply :) Yet again this morning I got muddy paw prints on my trousers :( The husband is just as bad and doesn't even seem to notice :( I think that next time I'll be brave and say something :)

Daisy

Sarah

I would love to know how you expect someone to have 100% recall with their dog before they let it off the lead ? Surely all dogs are learners at some stage and 100% cannot be guaranteed ?

I agree with most of what has been said here. Another thing that really annoys me is people who walk up to you when your dog(s) is on the lead and let their dog sniff yours "to make friends" :(

Daisy

Hi Daisy, my dog is definately a learner!  She has good and bad days but compared to a couple of months back she is very good now.  This post has made me realise that her recall should be more reliable for all sorts of reasons, most of all her own safety - there will always be situations that mean your dog wont be 100% (quite a few actually:)) but although my girlie isn't to 'in your face' I appreciate that people dont always want it.
Sarah :)

Sorry Sarah - I was replying to the other Sarah :D

While I agree that dogs should have a good recall before they can be trusted not to run after other dogs, there is always the period when you have to try them off the lead and 'pray' that they will be just as good with the recall when they are just dying to go and see that very interesting dog over there :) Practising on a lead or in an area where there are no other dogs is fine - but there comes a point when you just have to trust them. My dogs are fine when told to 'leave' - but I would never, ever dare to say that they are 100% :)

Daisy

Thats ok Daisy :D
Sarah

Rozza

Once we take a dog into our life we have committed on two fronts:  one committment is a RESPONSIBILITY TO your dog ie to look out for it and keep it safe, the other is to be RESPONSIBLE FOR your dog, ie ensure it does not harm or be a nuisance others.  If you keep those points in mind you should be OK.

Why have I become the bad guy here? :rolleyes: - I do not need a lecture on the basics - and I do not allow my dog to be a nusiance.  I have had experiences that have prompted aggression from two owners which merely involve my dog APPROACHING theirs not even close enough to sniff.  Now I have identified that my recall leaves a bit to be desired when my dog finds a potential playmate - and I'm sure I'm not the only one!  I think a very innacurrate and unrealistic picture is being painted here.  Our walk takes us through a packed field of dog's horses and families and sometimes parachutes!!!  Then passed a deer park and then through a wood...Rarely are you the only one there and if I put my dog on a lead everytime I saw another through fear of its improper upbringing or temperament then I couldn't walk my dog off lead at all...No wonder so many dog's have issue's these day's.
Sarah

I dont think that you are a "bad guy" , it is a case of different interpretations of the word "nuisance". As you know, I have 2 affies, and have had 2 others before. It is easy for us to forget just how big they are....even the thought of an approach from such a big dog can be very frightening  - some are plainly frightened of dogs in general, others may have had bad experiences with dogs attacking theirs. People who react in the way you describe are usually not nasty, just anxious.  My old rescue affie had a fear of GSDs and, although she was always on lead as had had no training, I used to C*** myself if a GSD approached off lead, because i knew there could be a problem. I used to be the one who had to ask if the owner could get the dog away please,and I was always polite. All too frequently they used to mutter or say openly that I was a stupid cow, because their dog was ok. You see,they didnt see that their dog was a nuisance, but to me it WAS a problem. Its just a matter of trying to see both points of view really.
The owners you have mentioned, who know that they have aggressive dogs, should keep them on a lead, you are right there. You can then keep Lana away from dogs on leads.
if you wish to continue exercising Lana off lead then do so.....but along with the territory comes clashes with others.  Just learn to accept it :)
Cathy, Delilah and Zorro.

Rozzer

Pinklillies is right you are not being labelled the bad guy here but you asked for other opinions.  You also asked how the aggressive dog should be exercised.  Well, as far as I can see the man was being responsible for his dog, he was walking her/him on a lead, under control in such a way that he could not bother anyone or another dog BUT he can't be responsible for your or anyone else's dog.  Your dog came uninvited and did not respond to recall.  That surely can only be your responsibility. 

Surely it's not unreasonable to expect each of us to take responsibility for our own.

I think if this chap had said "Can you call your dog away as mine is agressive" it would have been more acceptable in the way he did react .

Sorry to disagree with you but I think you should not exercise your dog off lead until you have complete recall with her and she is not allowed to go and be 'over friendly' to other dogs.

I have a rescued dog who had been passed around from one owner to another and was completely unsocialised but nervous not nasty. 

he was scared of everything that moved and getting him used to general traffic, other dogs, busy places was done at a slow (his) pace.

I had him neutered and just two or three days later was walking him in our park on a very quiet (winter) afternoon when I saw a couple approaching with 2 Rotties off lead.  I knew my dog was not ready for this and so took another path that vered off to one side rather than face 2 loose dogs head-on.  We hadn't gone far when the Rotties saw us and made off in our direction.  The owner called them back they took no notice.  I carried on walking but the dogs kept coming and paid no notice to their owner.  they caught us up some 100 yards from where they orginally were and rolled my dog over into brambles.  he is a long haired dog and he got caught up in the shrubbery.  I had him on lead and tried to get between him and them - he was frantic, they were jumping all over him.  When the owners arrived they said 'they're only being friendly - they play like that with dogs here all the time'!!. 

They undid in those few minutes, weeks and weeks of patient work.  The damage they could have done to him with or without his recent op was serious.  They were 2 full grown Rotties.   What would the outcome have been if I'd had a child with me and it screamed if fear - Rotties are known to have a dislike of shrill noises and will attack. 

Luckily 2 men playing tennis on courts nearby came to help and they gave the owners a right telling off but the owners couldn't see what was wrong with their friendly dogs going to play with dogs uninvited.

You and your dog do not know the background or circumstances of every other dog out walking and allowing your dog to be a nuicance is at best rude at worse dangerous.  It is up to owners to ensure their dogs are kept under control and not be a menace to others.

Just a suggestion here!
How about when you think that you're dog has mastered the recall, you ask a couple of locals, who you know have FRIENDLY dogs, to just sort of 'PASS BY'.
At least YOU'LL know that your dog won't get hurt if it fails and neither will theirs.

This post has been a little one sided so far me thinks :) - I have to stress that my dog is well mannered and FRIENDLY and not 'in your face' just persistent in her approach.  While the emphasis appears to be on my recall training how about everyone elses proper socialisation?  And no I dont refer to rescue or mentally scarred dog's here either!  I'm pleased that I can let my dog off at her age and I'm pleased that she is good mannered and friendly - I'm also pleased that she can be a dog on walks and mix with her own kind.  If she did have a totally reliable recall (hands up if yours does!) then I still wouldn't put her on a lead everytime I passed another dog - FACT...But I do identify when another dog is on its lead and I do put my dog on her's in such a situation.  I mean come on, dont let her off until 100% recall...How about dont take aggressive dog's out in busy public places until 100% rehabilitated!!!
Sarah

If my dogs are on lead they are with me.  If they are off lead then they are free to socialise.  I wouldn't let them approach a dog that was on a lead.  In my experience most dogs are a lot more sociable than their owners give them credit for. 

Sarah, are you saying anyone with an aggressive dog, even an under control one, on the lead, shouldn't take their dog out for a walk, so that YOUR puppy is safe?

Most aggression comes from having had a BAD experience.

I'm sorry Sarah, but people like you make me mad.
My youngest dog nearly got run over one day, because he thought a rough collie was going to harm him. It only wanted to play.
His fear of other dogs was started by a labrador puppy, who wanted to play. This 'puppy' was at least 5 times the size of him.
I put my dogs on leads when approaching other dog walkers, cos i don't want MY dogs to bother theirs. I would like my wishes respected and for others to do the same.
If you know you're dog won't bother the other persons then thats different, but if you're dog's the type who will, what gives you the right to spoil their walk?
When your puppy gets bitten, it will be nobody's fault but YOURS. :(

Thats fair enough - but do you honestly think that you can walk your dog in a public 'dog walking hot spot' without being approached by another off lead dog?  My dog isn't exactly a botherer, just approaches nearly every dog she see's, thats not to say she jumps on them and bother's them.  All these caring and sensible owners who find it acceptible to shout at other peoples dog's I also find interesting - would that not upset my dog or maybe make her nervous?  Surely if it is that much of a problem then shout to the owner or tell them their dog is unsafe or frightened??  As to my puppy getting bitten - well I've seen more dog's bite at show's (all those cramped, on lead dog's) than I have at the park!  My pup could be bitten anywhere - If people who have dog's who are likely to bite then they should watch them as much as I watch mine.
By the way, I consider myself a good owner - I picked my dog carefully when she was very young, I enroled her onto classes which she started at 15 weeks, she socialises all the time, she was carried out before all her jab's were done to acclimatise her to different surroundings, she is bombproof and extremely friendly.  She is easy to examine at the vet, she is happy and content, she loves children and doesn't jump all over visitors.  We have worked hard to cure a cycle and jogger chasing problem - and she is now very much cured and doesn't bother anymore.  I travel miles every week to another class seperate from her usual so she can experience adult dog's over her teenage pals!  If I'm the sort of owner that makes you mad then...Well, what can I say but clearly my efforts are in vain?  Perhaps I should be more like the staffy owner I saw the other day who was clearly a meat-head who was a nasty man with a nasty dog, by the look of him and his aggressive attitude I dare say he hasn't trained or socialised his dog properly perhaps we should be more like him?
Sarah :)

I agree with Suzieque, I too have rehabilatated nervous type and insecure rescue dogs. I also own a very dog and people friendly sociable dog.
My dog is off lead in parks, and does like to go up and play.
*However, she does not rush/charge/zoom up/jump on to the other dog.
I would put it like this. If i was in a bar and fancied someone, I wouldnt rush straight over, plonk myself right in her space, look her straight in the eye and ask her out!
*I* know i'm genuine and sincere, but she most probably would wonder if i'm an oddball - at the least she would find my invasion of her personal space an unnerving violation.
Obviously, I would gain better rapport and respect if I took things slowly, surely, and "worked the room" - i'm more likely to get a date that way, too!
So, I trained my dog according to the Calming Signals as described by Turid Rugrass, which means if dogs have "proper communication skills" they will see a dog from across the park, sniff the ground, stretch (possibly), and approach in ever decreasing wide arches at right angles (hard to describe in words). If the first dog does this, the second dog would receive 'calming signals' saying, :"dont worry, i'm not a threat to you, i just want to meet you" - and is more likely respond with reciprocal inviting Calming Signals.
Same as if when i'm "eying someone up" I quickly interrupt my gaze each time they notice!
So, if my dog does look as if she is going to rush up excitedly "just to say hello", I would put her back on the lead - as I would not want her to be the type of dog that is perpetuating the insecurities of the other dogs that I spend time trying to rehabilatate.
So, I think the answer is a mixture of the two viewpoints.
Yes, your dog should have recall before being let off lead, but I think you can let your dog carry on approaching other dogs when it is off lead if
*it is taking it slowly* - which also has the added advantage of giving you time to communicate permission from the other dogs' owner*.

Well funny you should say that kiwi, my hound has been going to obedience/clicker training classes since she was 15 weeks old, one hour on a Wednesday often turned into three due to Lana's "sweet natured body language" - so my trainer put it!  She was used to help the nervous out from under chairs and the bossy she could control!  She does indeed approach in ever decreasing circles and from quite a distance away she can decide if she is going to pursue her inquisition!  If she reads strong body language she backs off.  I would say that on my walk I see 99% of the dogs are off lead and those that are on lead I try to spot at an early stage like I do horses or those annoying remote control cars :rolleyes: - I read this post and it sounds as though my dog is bombing round like a tazmanian devil and I have no control whatsoever!  I was merely curious to hear the other side of the argument but feel that it has proved a little one sided at the moment - but thats ok :)
Sarah

Hi Rozer

i have a staffie and i always put her on a lead when there is another dog around, NOT because I do not trust my dog, but because i don't not turst other peoples, i Do let other peoples dog come over to jazz but i always have complete lead control in case the OTHER dog starts, because if they did and my dog retaliated then my dog would be in the wrong because of the way other people perseve (sorry about the spelling) the breed, you cannot rely on other peoples dogs to behave just because your dog approaches them.

Emma :)

If your'e walking along a path with your dogs off lead and  another person with their dog coming toward you with their off lead dog,what would you do?? I call out and ask if it';s o.k for my dogs to approach,it always is and then they play,some folk are acting like this a high form of science or something :rolleyes:
I have shih-tzu's so they are incapable of getting into anyone faces! I agree i would never let them approach a dog on a lead,as they are more likely to attack when they are strung up.
When i hear people saying "oh i hate when people let their dog approach me,blah,blah  to be honest you sound very stuck up and i wouldnt want to meet you on my walk anyway,you can tell people like that from a mile away !I honestly wish a law would be passed that all vicious dogs must be muzzled when out in public,this would save so many worries for those of us who have friendly well adjusted dogs,but i know this will never happen as it would be too hard to enforce.
The majority of us take our dogs out to excercise,but mostly to socialise with other dogs,this provides the most fun for them,well for my dogs anyway! To be honest,if someone has an anti-social dog then why on earth would you want to take it around other dogs,9 times out of 10 your dog will be approached by another dog IF you are walking at an OFF LEASH area.
I think our countries differ in 1 big respect,here in Australia there are designated on/off leash parks(it's different in the u.k isnt it??)If someone wants to bring their anti-social dog to an off lead park and then complain that other dogs approach them,well then it's their fault,they should go to an on lead area.
Most of you have bigger dogs than mine who would be able to defend themselves if need be,i have much bigger worries than the fear of my dogs being emotionally damaged,my fear is that they will be killed by a bigger nasty dog.My walks are never calm or carefree as i am always on the lookout for bigger dogs who want to eat mine for breakfast BUT i choose to frequent off lead area's so this is MY problem not anyone elses!(altho people with vicious dogs should not let them off lead but it does happen!
I agree 100% to never let an off lead dog approach an on lead dog,but i wholeheartedly disagree with people who take their problem dogs to off lead area's,they have no right to have a go at anyone else as it is THEIR dog with the problem,not ours.
All of the above would be completely irrelevant to all of you if you dont have our system of on/off lead parks.Come to think of it i have never read about any of these problems on Aussie dog sites
My question is, do the people with problem dogs take them to off lead areas?do you have access to on/off lead trails?
I dont want to start any arguments but it does get annoying for those of us with good dogs always have to be pussy footing around those dogs and owners who have problems,i hope i have made my point with out offending anyone,which sometimes feels impossible :( ooohh i can feel my words being cut and pasted now ;)

christine :)
,

One of my dogs has a problem with other dogs, he is dog aggressive. We take him in remote areas for off lead exercise and keep scanning the horizon for approaching dogs so we can get him on his lead ASAP in case of trouble. If we are going to a place where we know other dogs will be plentiful then he wears a muzzle.
I think the onus should be on the dog owner of the aggressive/problem dog to take measures to ensure the safety of other dogs and walkers. I wouldn't dream of taking my aggressive dog to a popular dog park etc without keeping him on his lead or putting on his muzzle. As for other dogs approaching us, that's fine with me so long as they are friendly, if they are not then why aren't the owners taking safety measures the same as I do?

Hear Hear to the last two posts!

Me too.  Taz has been attacked several times, starting as a puppy at training and now immediately goes defensive when he sees another dog.  The other 2 are absolutely fine, but like you I just try to keep out of the way.

I agree that if you take dogs to a designated off-lead area you have to accept other dogs will approach yours, but I don't go to them at all. I strongly resent any dog approaching me, or my dogs! 
My youngest dog had a bad experience with a large dog once (trying to play with him) and he was extremely fearful of any dog larger than him (he is a mini dachshund, so that would be most dogs LOL) to the point where he would pee and sometimes even poo. I spent months with a trainer (not to mention dollars) and we were finally at the point where he could meet a larger dog, while both on lead, and he was not as fearful.  One day we were out, and my dog was on lead, and a Rottie came bounding over, not on lead. The owner called to me "She is friendly, she only wants to say hello"  My poor little boy evacuated his bowels immediately!  We are right back at square one!
quote: "to be honest you sound very stuck up "  If that makes me stuck up, so be it!

Pauline

Pauline, i agree with what you say. My dogs aren't aggressive but will SNAP if a strange dog comes over to them.
I had to pull a somoyed off my mini smooth one day, fortunately she was alright, but it could so easily have killed her.
I tend to walk my dogs where there are few people around, or when i can see a long way as to what is coming. But why should i apologise for my dog when they are on a lead.
Like i said with my sister's dog, she is aggressive BECAUSE she got attacked by a pack of greyhounds. So who's fault is that? Her psychological problems run very deep. She shouldn't have to worry about other dogs approaching hers, but irresponsible owners let them.
I've been using reward based training to calm my three down when on walks, when another dog passes, but then i get the stupid owners who STILL let their dogs approach, even though they can see what i'm doing. Which just puts me back to square one.
It's just about having consideration for other people.
AS for other people shouting at your dog, well consider first why? YES you get the idiots who do it for no reason, but the likes of my sister, her dog being attacked on lead, didn't just affect her dog, it affected her too. Do you know what it's like seeing your dog ripped to shreds and no teing able to do anything about it? She was lucky there was some young lads nearby who came to her aid.

I havn't read all the replies so excuse me if I am repeating what others have already said. My thought on the subject go along the lines of keeping the dog on a very long flexi lead until the dog responds to recall.
This way the owners dog is still under control and not cause problems with other dog owners. This is the advantage of going to dog training classes so that the dog get used to being around other dogs and when out will not take any notice of those around him.
Bazza

Just have to say that those who allow their dogs to run up to on-lead dogs are showing a total lack of consideration. That dog may be on lead for all sorts of reasons - as shown above. My pet hate is people who shout "It's all right, he/she won't fight." How do they know that mine won't? When my dog is on the lead, he's under control. Dogs running free aren't. My mother has a permanent injury caused by "he won't fight" dogs running free who knocked her over.

I think that there is a lot of difference between owners who 'allow' their dogs to wander up to other dogs and those who are genuinely trying to train their dogs NOT too. There seem to be a few, rather superior people on here whose puppies have miraculously gone overnight from not being allowed off the lead, to being off the lead with 100% recall. Somewhere in between are the people who have done a lot of training with their puppy and have to test the water with them. How can you train a dog to ignore other strange dogs, without letting it off the lead at some time ? Owners of aggressive dogs have to recognise the difference and be prepared for it. I don't mind owners whose dogs run up to mine and are obviously making an effort to have them under control - I used to be one of those once and make allowances for it :) What I do hate is people who just don't try to train their dogs and don't seem aware that not all dogs are friendly and want to play.

Daisy

I couldn't agree more. I have one elkie I let off lead...he is not a dog who wants to play with other dogs and if he is approached or comes across another dog he will stand still in a submissive pose and then walk away. The other one is on a lead because he wants to play with everything!! He will bound up to another dog wanting to  sniff and play but I consider that is impossing on people who may not want another dog near theirs for whatever reason. Everyone has a right to exercise there animals where they choose AS LONG AS IT IS UNDER CONTROL!!To not be able to keep your dog away from another means it is NOT under control. The law is that a dog must be under control at all times!!!not that unsociable dogs should be exercised away from other dogs.
I take full responsability for my dogs and their actions...if I cannot control those actions then I must modify my methods so that I can.
Archer

Emma
<<<i have a staffie and i always put her on a lead when there is another dog around, NOT because I do not trust my dog, but because i don't not turst other peoples >>>

That is us too.
My dog is friendly with anyone and any dog but I too worry about other dogs.
I also dont walk him locally or take him to the local park because it just seems to be full of idiots ( with exceptions of course) who dont care if their dog annoys others. We take him to the woods which is about a 20 minute drive away purely because it seems to be frequented by genuine dog lovers with well behaved dogs. Luckily we have yet to have encountered an aggressive situation and fingers crossed we wont but being realistic , I know that of course we will.

Thanx lel :)

prime example today, went to a boot sale, there were lots of dogs, I allow any dog to approach my staff, as i am in control with the lead, everyone commented on how nice she was, wagging her tail at the other dogs, there were also 5 other staffs there who we ended up talking with (the owners that is!!) and all the dogs were fine together, I have brought mine up socially and she doesn't have a problem with any other dogs (yet!) but that is not to say she never will, the label 'aggressive dog' is not a nice one and all staff's seem to get branded the same, THEY ARE NOT! as Lel and most other staff owners will say. Imagine as a human if a complete stranger bounded up to your face and wanted to play! your automatic reponse is defensive because of the surprise, also you never know how two strange dogs are going to react to each other. Nobody IMHO should ever let their dog go up to any dog on or off the lead without mutal owner consent. I do trust my dog as i have already said, but one day there may be a dog she does not like and I just like to have her on a lead whenever another dog is around so if that ever happens I am in complete control.

We staff owners are not all aggressive people with aggressive dogs!

Emma :)

I sooooo knew this would happen!  I am refering to a situation where the man in question was using colourful language, was aggressive and battling with a drooling staff at the end of his lead that is all...It could have been any breed.
Sarah

Ozzie,

I have very similar views to yours, and perhaps that is because here in Japan too there are designated off-lead areas, often divided into a small-dogs' area and a general area.  Despite the rather limited size of some of these dog-runs, they are perfect for solving the problems that have been discussed in this thread.

I have also been surprised at this thread as these are problems I never encounter - how on earth do you decide who doesn't mind a dog approaching, who does, who will forgive an excited jump, an only 99% perfect recall, etc etc?  It really sounds exhausting...  I would say my dog has about 80% recall, and is certainly one of the better-trained dogs in the dog-run I visit every day, but despite this lack of perfection, it is so enjoyable to see the dogs racing around, investigating one another, and becoming beautfully socialized in the process.  And I have seen only a couple of dog-to-dog reprimands and not one (yes, not one) serious fight on my twice-daily walks.  Perhaps the reason for this is that the dogs can work out their relationships in an open, unrestricted space, and are not influenced by paranoid owners who cannot relax on their walks!!

personally, i do prefer for Kara to go and have a look or a play with other dogs while walking but would take a lead from the other person (if that makes any sense) i.e if they place their dog on the lead or it is already on one then kara is placed under control as i would take that as a sign that they do not wish for their dog to interact for whatever reason.

I can to a certain extent understand why people would get annoyed if they were doing their best to keep their dog under control and had someone elses dog following them  - If they have taken precautions to prevent any trouble then they would expect others to do the same IMO.

We were playing ball with our dogs on a feild (size of a football pitch) quite happilly at the far end and some one entering (path runs along other side) put their dog on its lead. we were no where near but we stopped playing ball just in case then as he got to the road he let his dog off the lead!!!!!! to wander the streets with him. Wheres the sense in that!

Sorry Rozzer, dont know if I am the only one to admit, that out of four dogs, one of my bitches has 100% recall, yet I still put her on a lead when close to another dog, this also alerts the other owner to place his dog on a lead if he has not already done so, I do this purely out of courtesy, (the just in case factor),.

Kay