I had a terrible walk today. Everything was going well to start with. Then we turned a corner where the path opened up and we encountered 6 small white terriers, a women and her son, an elderly man and several boys on bikes. Although off lead, both of mine were close to me and being very well behaved, despite all the distractions. All of a sudden a couple of the terriers ran up behind megan and started chasing her. Meg was absolutely petrified, and just ran in blind panic. (The owner did nothing to stop them) and unfortunately meg ploughed straight into the elderly man trying to get back to me. He fell over, due to the force (she is a 16kg BC - with a nervous disposition, i might add), and the grass was slippery. I immediately went over and apologised. To my horror he completely ignored me and started shouting and threatening megan, (who just looked a little dazed) shaking his fists at her and growling, "get away from me you horrible dog!" So i shouted at him, "can't you see she was being chased?" He just kept shouting at her, whilst she stood there cringing. so i said to him "don't hit her, she will bite." To her credit she was very well behaved, when she was younger she suffered from a fear of men, which thankfully she has recovered from with a lot of hard work. He just carried on shouting at me, so i'm afraid i just said something rather rude and walked away, because i just couldn't trust myself not to completely lose my temper.
I couldn't believe his reaction. Obviously megan shouldn't have run into him, but i did apologise and explain why, it was an accident - although he saw what happened. There was nothing i couldve done, lets face it if you were being chased by what you throught was a knife wielding maniac, would you see where you were going?! He probably was embarrased and a bit bruised, granted, but had it been me i know i would've just accepted the apology and laughed it off. What amazed me the most is that two of the terriers were his. If he would react to someone elses dog that way, what is to stop him doing it to his dogs if they accidently ran into him?! Meg seemed ok afterwards, but i am so worried that her fear of men may have returned. His bruises will heal in a few weeks, megs mental scars may never heal.

Oh dear, horrible for everyone. Why didnt you put Meg on lead when it looked a bit threatening - 6 dogs is a pack add bikes and you get my worst nightmare. I am a total coward Im afraid and tend to whip out the lead in case, especially when the other dogs are unknown quantities. It does seem hard that you train your dogs and when they behave with good manners something like this happens, but life aint fair I find. Nowadays I live for the solitary walks so I can relax a bit. Do you know a nice man or 2 who can give Meg positive experiences again? I do really feel for you both after all your work some idiot threatens to put you back to square one - full marks to Meg for not biting him. Similar thing happened to us ages ago when we turned a corner and met an old so and so with his hideously aggressive dog. He started yelling and throwing kicks at Morse who bounced about barking. The fella made so much noise Morse couldnt hear me so I was grateful I taught him signals and used the come one while telling Mr Angry to control himself while I controlled the dog. If I see him now we go another way cos lifes too short. Sure youll find a way of helping Meg over come this.

What a terrible experience.  But perhaps the old man had just got a genuine shock and reacted badly in fright, albeit rudely?  The reason I suggest this is that our youngster accidently sent my father in law flying when we were all out walking, and of course, Spike ran up to him to see what was the matter, as we all did.  FIL had got such a fright that he shouted at Spike to get away from him and pushed at him to make him go away.

Fortunately, FIL was not hurt, and as soon as we got him home and gave him a cuppa, he was full of remorse for being angry at Spike and gave him loads of cuddles and told him it wasn't his fault :)  However, the fall had given him such a fright that he had reacted from the adrenaline of it. Perhaps the old man in your case was reacting in a similar way :)

Lorelei is right, see if you can find some nice positive experiences for Meg and hopefully her bad experience won't trouble her in future :)

Lesley

"his bruises will heal in a few weeks"........crikey, you dont get many marks for sympathy! Your dog knocks him over, he gets hurt, he is probably shocked rigid, and all you can think about is that your dog will be emotionally scarred! You should be heaving a sigh of relief he didnt break any bones or your bank balance would be emotionally scarred. old people break more easily than us, and they shock more easily too....and his reaction was probably caused by shock....If my dog had knocked over someone I would expect them to shout, and I wouldnt blame them for having a go. Im sorry but you really are unreasonable to expect the guy to not be mad as hell.
I AM sorry that your dog had a bad experience, but its not the mans fault.

Lucyandmeg, try to put this unfortunate event behind you and concentrate on whats a head :) hindsight is a wonderful thing, and if we could see into the future wouldnt life be boring :) we have probably all had bad moments with our dogs, I know I have,  and I expect you have been just as shocked and upset by this incident as the man was :)

once my horse bolted with me off of the track down a country road! that joins onto the SWest coastal path, so one side of the road was  almost a cliff(big drop) anyway i couldnt stop at all & round a corner met 3 eldery walkers ,the two men jumped into the hedge But the woman jumped towards the cliff!!!! luckily she landed in a tree! about a mile up the road i managed to stop so turned around & went back, she was still in the tree & had twisted her ankle! so i tryed to help her out & once the men stopped shouting at me i managed to tell them that i couldnt stop! they thought i was just going for a ride!!then they were quite under standing,especially when they realised i could have met a car! (narrow road /cliff!OMG!)
anyway it was all fine once they calmed down.
i know this isnt much help to you, but you are not alone!!!

It is certainly horrible when things like this happen. I didn't really have a chance to put meg on a lead, as everything happened so fast. It is something i simply couldn't foresee. Pinklillies, i totally disagree. I was totally sympathetic to the man until he turned on my dog. I was not just going to hold my hands up and say "oh i am so sorry, please attack my dog!!" What if it had been a child? Young children can do exactly the same thing, but i hope he wouldn't threaten a child in such a manner. Meg was not being a nuisance, she was running scared, there is a difference and he did see that. Nobody has any right to attack a dog, becuase of an unfortunate accident. Surely that would be justifying road rage? If you swerved to avoid an oncoming car and smashed into another, would you allow them to smack you round the head because they had every right? The way i see it is if someone apologises then at least be nice. Then perhaps i am too nice, but if i was in the position of that man, i know i wouldn't react that way, i would laugh it off probably. A similar thing happened to my friend, unfortuately it was her fault as she threw the ball straght at someone and her dog ploughed into her and she broke her elbow. However, she was extremely nice about it, despite it being the dogs fault. This world would be a better place if people weren't so quick to shout.

The world would be a better place if everyone considered each other a bit more, so they trained their dogs not to chase others etc. Ive been there and been caught out too often myself - The Guide Dog Incident, The Akita plus Collies Incident, The Rabbits at Night Incident and have had my dog chased by a Tag Team. Hence the swift production of leads and horizon gazing, not always 100% effective.. Nice people like yourself often fall into the trap of thinkig everybody's like them and the same is true for responsible dog owners/parents. Nowadays I dont make this mistake. Nobody has the right to hit out at someone elses dog and it is really upsetting - I couldve murdered the old git who lashed out at mine but didnt because I  felt it wasnt good for him to see me losing the plot as well.  So whats your future plan?

Thats so true. I'm sorry to hear that you have had similar incidents before, it certainly shakes you up doesn't it! So far meg seems ok, (only time will tell) i am going to make sure that we meet as many nice men as we can, as we have done before. I am currently working on her dog problem with a behaviourist, which is an on going thing, but i don't even think my other dog would've been ok with the snapping terriers. In future i am going to have to be more careful with the horizon scanning, however i usually just get her to walk to heel, as i am trying to not put her in a position where she feels she can't escape, which causes her to be aggressive, but i shall have to be quicker with the leads.

I am afraid that you still dont seem to understand that shock is a MEDICAL condition. It releases adrenalin into the system  and causes extreme reactions, often irrational ones. If this mans system was full of adrenalin he would not have any control over his anger, he would not have been able to control himself. I am sure that you did apologise, but an apology does not do anything to get rid of the adrenalin, it takes time. You really cant blame a person suffering from shock for their angry reaction, any more than you can blame a person with a cold for sneezing, or blame a person with a broken toe for limping. They just cant control it. I hope I have explained it a little better.

I am completely aware that shock is a medical condition, as i am a pychology undergraduate taking my finals this year. However, i do not agree that adrenalin cuases people to lash out without being able to control themselves. Yes, sometimes this can happen, but whilst limping is a physical reaction to the pain, behaviour is different. How many times have your dogs bumped into you, whilst playing, particularly if they are puppies? Do you immediately shout/hit them? I just shout "careful", (and yes, mine has knocked me over before) but i have never reacted like that, and certainly wouldn't with another dog. The brain can override anything, that is why some people can ski down mountains with a broken leg before the pain becomes noticible. This is where the concept of freewill comes from. You do have the power to control yourself, otherwise how many parents would be hitting their children all the time for accidently hurting them. He appeared more embarrassed than hurt, and was just lashing out to make himself look like less of a fool. I have never seen a 60-70 year old man get up so quickly and easily before, so he clearly wasn't that hurt, except for his pride. If shock is a medical condition then, does that mean that if some one shoots somebody because they are in shock, does that make them innocent? No, in the eyes of the law they would still be guilty.

Although I love dogs, I'm sure that if I was knocked down by one I didn't know and it came back towards me I would ward it off. When I've fallen and my own crowd around me they prevent me getting up so I shout at them to "back off" and these are dogs which I know have friendly intentions.

I'm afraid if my border collie had knocked over an 'elderly man' I would be more concerned about the man. 

You need to get this into perspective.  Perhaps if your dog is so scared of other dogs you should keep it on a lead??

"His bruises will heal"!! Classic!

<<<<<Perhaps if your dog is so scared of other dogs you should keep it on a lead??>>>>>>>>

I'm sorry But I once had one of my dogs chanced by two hunting whippits when she was only 16 months, noway was she scared of dogs living with 5 others, knowing ALOT more but she was petreified of being chased, she didn't knock anyone over but I know I would be scared if a couple of people started chasing me, but I'm not scared of everyone!!!!

So sorry Tim, I cannot agree with that! 

As it was in my bitches situation the BIG setter lad (bitches "bodyguard") Followed these whippits untill they realised how big he was, all he did was trot behind them not showing any sighs of aggression!!!!

Rox

She has actually never run away from a dog before. She certainly doesn't like them, she will ignore them, and if they pester her she will snap at them, but she has never been as scared as that before, and because of the unusual circumstances, i do not think it warrants keeping her constantly on a lead on the off chance that 6 out of control terriers may come up behind us. I will certainly be more vigilan, but as i said before, there is very little i could have done, but perhaps the owners of the other dogs could have done more.
As i have said before, i was concerned about the man - i apologised, right up until he turned on my dog and me. Perhaps i am unusual, but i do not believe any man that can turn on a dog because of an unfortunate accident and tell a woman to "f*** off " deserves any kind of concern, no matter what his age. IMO, (probably not shared by others, but that is life) age does not give anyone the excuse to be violent and agressive towards people no matter what happens. Where i live many of the elderly people round here, think that just becuase they are getting on in years, they are allowed to be rude, obnoixious and downright nasty.
And it is true his bruises will heal, as i am sure megans will, it must have hurt her too. Do you believe that people are more important than animals? I believe they are equally important, but animals can't speak up for themselves so sometimes we have to speak for them.

I agree rox, with dogs you simply cannot be prepared for all situations. Yes you can keep them on the lead for the rest of their lives, on the offchance that one day something may happen, but that is not fair on the dogs. Whilst on this occasion someone got knocked over, no one was seriously hurt, it was a pure, unfortunate accident, which you cannot predict.

Jeangenie, i appreciate that, probably very sensible.  Unfortunately meg had not been given the chance to get away from him at the time. she was a little dazed, but she wasn't actually running back towards him or anything. However, thinking about it, mightn't it be a bad idea to react in the way this man did, because, as you say you know your dogs have friendly intentions, but shaking your fists and shouting at some dogs that you do not know may trigger them to attack. Perhaps not the best thing to do.

It certainly wasn't the best thing to do, but I think under the circumstances I might have done the same. We never know how we'll react in an emergency.

I have to agree, JG. In the days before we had Sparky, and the girls were much younger (about 2 and 3 at the time, I think), we had gone to Cornwall for our family holiday. As soon as we arrived we went down to the beach. We had just sat down when a French poodle came bouncing over to us, barking like mad. Now in those days, neither of us had ever owned a dog, or had much to do with them, so had no real idea of a dog's body language, etc. All we could see was a big black dog, bounding towards our babies. Have to say, as it ran up to them and started jumping at them, my husband's reaction was to shove it away, at which point the owner came racing up and shouting at him not to "Thump" her dog. I know the circumstances are slightly different here, but when you feel threatened, you can act in ways that might make you think back and shudder. Fear and shock can do that. With hindsight, my OH might have overreacted, but as he said at the time, he wasn't going to wait and find out.

I must say Lucy that I agree with you, old people are just too obnoxiuos (and yes I am very young) but I get sooo many filthy looks from older people because I am a teen still!  Yes I wear hipsters etc but by no means do I get into trouble and I am steryotyped, old people go around telling ladys to "fuck off" and then they are the first to moan about people of my age saying the same thing!!!

If I am knocked over by a dog (normally in something yucky) then 99.99999% of the time the dog didn't mean it and if I moaned everything a dog ran into me or jumped up at me then I would be forever moaning and complaining!

Rox

Exactly. I would expect a fellow dog owner to be a litlle more understanding. I think one of the reasons he had a go was because i am in my early twenties, but i look much younger. I think if i was an older woman, he would not have reacted in such a way. They are supposed to be setting us an example and yet often they behave worse that teens do. Young people are completely stereotyped and old people just do not give us a chance. Of course there are many nice elderly people too, just as you do get some teens who are trouble, but why should we bother to be nice to people if they can not even bother to be polite back?

Yes I agree, the amount of time my grandad has been knock down, he gets up laughs it off and is more worried that the dog is ok when he goes limping home!!!!!!!!!  There are just as many nice erdely people, but watch they are not the ones who steryotype teens to be "rebels"  I must admit I easily lose my rag and if I get a horrible person (young or old) talking to me in a nasty way they will get back what they give!  If someones nice then I will be more than happy to sit and talk to them about "the weather!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Rox

You sound just like me! :-)

Oh dear double trouble!!!!! LOL

I have just been on the help the aged web site and found this on the message forum:

"Nightmare Walk

I have just come back from a terrible walk, and now I am home alone, lonely and frightened with no family to talk to or share this experience with.

I was just out walking my two dogs when they went running towards a border collie to play with it.  Unfortunately this dog was obviously not very friendly, and instead of playing with the dogs and doing the usual bum sniff it came charging towards me.  I was terrified, I thought it was going to attack me.  It bowled into me and knocked me flying.  I fell straight over and ended up lying in the grass.  All I could think was oh my god, have I broken anything.

The dogs owner did apologise and I am ashamed to say that in my anger, fear and shame at falling over I did shout and wave my stick at the dog.

I am now sat with a very stiff back and bruising all up my legs.  I dont think young people realise just how much it hurts when we fall over at our age, I am 75.  I have no children and I am terrified that I will loose my independence and have to go into care.  My legs are very stiff and I cannot manage the stairs.

I am old, lonely and in pain."

Timhere can I have a link for that please????

I can't find a forum on thehelp the aged website, can you help please!!!??

Rox

Edited to say, found forum but found nothing about a walk, I would really like to see it

I think Tim's point is that there are two sides to every story :) :)

storm I know there are two sides but I want to read it on the site myself!!!!!

Rox

I doubt if you'll find it, I think Tim (although I might be wrong - which case I apologise :D) was using it as an example for what someone could have been posted.
Clair

I assume your are  joking Ice Queen.

I was making a point

Here another example then from the same person
"I was out walking yesterday when my two precious little darlings went to say hellp to a strange doggie which for some strange reason didn't like them talking & smiling at it  fancy a big doggie being frightened of my little ones & then the nasty thing rushed at me & attacked me so I set about it verbally & physically to teach it  a lesson. About time people realised I fought in the war for the likes of them & I should be able to let my darling do as they please, dogs never needed all this fancy training when I was young & why should have to train my dogs if I don't want to

Everyone should have some respect for older people like me who fought in the war & suffered hardship for them, young people today would never manage if they had the same things to go through, they are all too busy taking drugs to learn to obey & respect for their elders & betters.

That dogs owner was wafflling on about the dog being frightened what rubbish I'll be seeing the dog warden to get the nasty thing put down  "

Exactly, the dog doesnt like other dogs so it should have been on a lead.

And I do happen to think that old people deserve respect.

Moonmaiden I don't know where you live but I don't know any old people who are like your example. The elderly man in question was probably in shock, Ive been in shock a few times and it was horrible, i reacted agressively everybody reacts differently.  unforseen things do happen when out, its all part of owning a dog - normally no big deal.  But to imply that it was all this nasty man's fault and that he had an attitude is wrong IMO.
Clair

Well me and Rox both were taken in by it.  I found myself searching a help the aged forum for it.  :(

Gald I am not the only one sally!!!

I am sorry but Tim all you say is "your dog was scared, keep it on the lead"  Read one of my above posts!!!  I HAVE HAD A DOG IN A SIMILAR SITUATION where it was scared, my dog in no-way is scared of everything, infact it was only the ONCE when she was chased when she was scared!!!

Would you go up and play with two people who were chasing you?  I know I wouldn't!

I think old people should be given respect and I do give them respect, but ONLY if the don't steryotype me as the rebel teen!!!  So many times I have been given the evil just because i am a teen, yes in the summer i am in Hipster and shorter tops, does this make me a rebel or a slapper?, which is how they look at me!!!!!

I will help out older people and many atimes at shows I will talk to/help the older people on their own if they want, as I will open doors and remeber my Ps and Qs, for not just the older members of society but also of all ages!

Rox

Nobody is to blame here.  Like the saying goes - S**t happens - :D  Lucy shouldn't have to keep her dog on a lead, that is silly.  I too had a similar experience whilst walking on the common with two dogs.  As we rounded a corner a man whose house bounded the common was cutting his hedge and he immediately turned on my dogs (who were just minding their own business and would have walked by without giving him a second glance normally) waving the secatauers in the air and effing and blinding.  I asked him to stop waving his arms about but then I had to correct myself quickly and ask him to stop waving his arm about because he only had one arm. :D  He was clearly terrified of dogs.  One of the dogs just ran past and waited ahead but the other reacted to his anger and would have taken him on.  Now my dogs do a down stay when we go that way and I go ahead and check the coast is clear but one day when I have plucked up the courage I'm going to walk all 12 dogs past him and borrow next doors Rottie and a couple of their Shepherds too.

The point is that people should realise that not everybody loves dogs, and not everbodies lifes revolve around them

You CANNOT possibly try and justify a dog knocking down an elderly gent, and then saying, "his bruises will heal"

I should add that my life does revolve around dogs, but I also appreciate that not everybody is the same.

I've lost count on how many times i have returned from a walk with muddy paw prints all over the front of me,the paw prints were not from MY dogs! How could i possibly get angry at a dog for being a dog when i have dogs myself!
You apologised to the old fella,he should have accepted it and moved on!I 100% agree with the disrespect some old folk show the younger ones,i'm 32. They do think just because they are old they can treat us however they want,well i dont care what age a person is,if they ill-treat me then i will reciprocate,just as if they treat me with respect so shall i to them,being elderly does not give them the right to treat anybody with dis-respect.
The bottom line is,if someone gives it,then they must be prepared to take it,ofcourse is ego was BRUISED,he will get over it,but will your dog??I have so much more compassion and understanding for dogs than i do for humans ;)
The last time i got bowled over by another persons dog i jumped to my feet and had a giggle with the apologetic owner,the more a person says sorry to me,the more i say "no worries" (if that makes sense??) i cant be angry at someone if they are profusly apologising to me :)
Your dog reacted the way she did because of their dogs,i blame them not Meg :D

christine

Forgot to say,i walk my dogs along a river,which is a designated "off leash" area for dogs,so i think iff people are scared of dogs or dont like them they shouldnt go there and if they do then it is at their own peril,i will not put my dogs on a lead for the benefit of someone else when we are at an off leash trail.

christine

Well all I can say is what a miserable, uncompassionate lot some of you are.

You may think your dogs are wonderful, but perhaps strangers dont want them bowling into them and knocking them over.

Ofcourse nobody would want their dog to bowl someone over,i personally dont have that problem as i have shih-tzu's ;) ,i beleive Lucy apologised and when the man reacted aggressivly toward her dog,then she did what any  loving dog owner would do and protected her dog! I dont think many people purposly let their dogs bowl people over, and if they did then "yes" they would deserve a mouthful,but when it is so obviously an accident and the owner apologises and clearly feels bad and then they cop a abuse,well i would react defensivly aswell,i defend my dogs just as i would my kids,i would feel the same way if someone abuses my children or my dogs,i will automatically stick up for them!

christine

Look Tim I do not, and sure that no one else does set there dogs up and make them run a knock someone over.  I understand not everyone like dogs and we run upto 5 dogs together at times, and when see people, who are out for an afternoon stroll for example, we call some of the dogs back because we understand that someone doesn't want to have 5 dogs running around them, the dogs are more likly to ignor them BUT if one did go up then we understand they might not like it!

The thing is the man in question is a dog person, he owns 2 dogs, therefore, maybe if his dogs will chase other dogs he should keep them on leads!!!!!!!!!!??? Don't you think???  Or have more controll that he can call them to him, away from this dog!

Rox

Maybe he's scared of bigger dogs - maybe he was bitten by one like yours last week - who knows? It sounds as though everyone over-reacted. It was an unfortunate accident, that hopefully everyone involved will learn from.
:)

Then those strangers should not be walking their dogs off leash who might bowl other people and dogs over.

Pots and kettles??????

I do agree that he probably reacted out of pain and fear once he'd been knocked over - and fair enough, hopefully he did realised later that lucy&meg did apologise and he's okay.

There are two sides here - I agree with both of them, but if he's not being responsible for his dogs behaviour then it's kind of ridiculous to be defending him on the basis that someone else didn't have their dog under control.

Wendy

ozzie, getting mud on you is one thing, potentially breaking a hip is another. At the time of his fall the man may genuinely have been in fear that he had broken a bone, and believe me that a trivial fall can break a hip in an elderly person. Every day I have to pick up the pieces of the lives of elderly people, for whom such a "minor" incident  has led to long term incapacity. Frequently, as in this case, the person is made to somehow feel as though it is their fault.  I am not exaggerating when I say that. When someone is in pain, and shockand frightened , you really cannot hold them responsible for what they say. ( you should hear what women in labour say to their husbands).
One day, if you are lucky, you will be old too. ( And so will the others of you that are shamelessly whining about the elderly) I suppose if you get hurt and frightened you will expect a bit of concern and sympathy. Its got nothing to do with young versus old. Nice considerate young people turn into nice considerate old people, inconsiderate young people turn into inconsiderate old people. Dont all of you  ever wonder what you will be like when you are old and frail? Or do you all think you will be young forever?

Well said Pinklilies :)

Well, for what my opinion is worth, i think Wendy has hit the nail on the head; if the man didn't have his own 2 terriers under control, and they were part of the problem, one cannot defend him on the basis that someone else allegedly did not have their dog under control. I bet his dogs behave like that all the time, and he lets them.

Lindsay
X

the way i see it everybody is responsible for themselves!& their own dogs!
to be honest it WAS a accident,lucy did not intend for her dog to knock a old man over!

the elderly man must be held partialy responsible for the incident as his own dogs started the chain of events!!

i would go completly nuts if anybody threatened my dogs!
lucy is bound to be concerned about megs reaction to the situation as megs her dog,she loves her & has to live & deal with any problems that occur  with meg as result of the incident,& she hasnt been a easy dog!
collies are so sensitive & any negative situation like this can throw up many problems with them!

im sure lucy would have been much more sympathtic if the old man hadnt started abusing meg & her!

my full support lucy!

Thanks everyone. I was starting to think that i was being unreasonable. I have lots of respect for the elderly - i work with them. But as it has been said here, i give respect where i get respect. When i am working as a carer i give as much support as they need, when i work in the shop i am polite to all the elderly customers (ever then ones  who are really tude) and help them as much as i can and i can sincerely say that i have many elderly friends. But when someone treats me like dirt, when i am not working, over an accident after i apologise i see no reason to give compassion or respect. You are certainly right michelle, meg has not been easy. She developed a fear of men after being kicked when she was a pup, and from then on she would bark at every men we met, and it took a long time to get over it, so i was terrified we would go back to square one, so easy to do with a collie.

Just being picky here, but from the original post it seems that the elderly man was an innocent party, just walking along. It wasn't clear (at least not to me) who the dogs belonged to. Nowhere does it say that the dogs belonged to the woman, the man or the children on bikes.

Not wanting to be nasty, but it's all very well saying "I give respect where I get respect". Does it have to be the other person who starts it? Why not give respect regardless of whether you receive it in return? That at least gives you the moral high ground. Otherwise you're no better than them.