This is for all you expereinced guys! when i get my pup, which do you advise? crate or paper training? would really welcome any tips or advice that anyone can give us on this subject!
Deb

I personally wouldn't do either, but given the choice of those two options then it would have to be crate training every time. Why teach a puppy that it's acceptable to wee and poo in the house and then entirely contradict that? Seems pointless to me!
:)

Agree, I only use paper to contain pee, not to teach them that it is the place to go.

The only way to reliably train them is to take themout so often that they never, or seldom have an accident indoors.

Restricting the areas a puppy is allowed helps enourmously as lots o people have problems with pup finding a quiet coirner or romm away from it's sleeping area to go.

A puppy that is happy to be in a crate at times is a godsend so definately use a crate from the outset.  By paper training I assume you mean to teach the puppy to toilet on paper in the house.  I personally don't see the point in that because you then have to start again and teach them to do it outside which is much more difficult when they are older and used to going indoors.  A crate will be the den/nest for a puppy so providing you are there to take them out when they wake up they will house train much quicker then, for example, the pup that is asleep under the coffee table and then wakes up, stretches and runs to the other side of the room and pees before you realise they are awake.  At night if you have the crate beside your bed the pup should let you know when he needs out and if you are lucky will quickly learn bowel and bladder control and last all night sooner than if he is left in the kitchen with paper to go on.
Sally

Thanx sally dont know about having the crate in my bedroom, i have a cat that has claimed residence in there and my husband is not over the moon about that. Dont think he would be too chuffed with a puppy crate as well!.Also im reluctant to let it in the bedroom as Bassets should not go upstairs and i wouldnt like to start having to break the habit.

Hi Deb,

Our cats sleep in the bedroom too.  Although we do have a couple of dogs in the bedroom with us the rest sleep downstairs quite happily now.  They started off in the bedroom in a crate and were then happy to sleep wherever we chose to locate the crate.  Of course they were always carried up and down stairs.
Sally

Sally did byou get up in the night to take your pups out or did you just keep cleaninhg up the crate until they could hold it? also could anyone else answer this?

p.s.excuse the typing! av hurt my finger and am hitting the wrong keys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Deb, Yes I get up when they wake me, I lie - I kick my husband and he gets up and takes them out.  ;) After a few disturbed nights it becomes increasingly difficult for me to wake hubby and so pup learns to hold on for longer until they can eventually go all night.  Definately don't want them to have to pee and poo in the crate.
Sally

You should only use the closed crate if yo7u will get up to take pup out, the point is that pup should not dirty it's crate.  If it starts to regularly dirty it's sleeping area then it is going against it's naturally clean instincts and you will be making it harder to housetrain.

If you don't want to get up at night (or are unlikely to be able to reach pup in time) then don't shut them in crate, and just clan up in the morning (obviously pup will have to be in an area where the floor is easily cleaned.

Hi Brainless thanks for this advice, i get your meaning that leaving a pup in a clsoed crate at night could lead to problems if im not prepared to get up.

I must admit I prefered to clean up in the morning than have my sleep broken, and pups still got housetrained fairly quickly :D  It is one of the reasons my crate is never shut in the kitchen.

Hiya Deb
If you are still looking into obtaining a basset, then IMHO, I wouldn't use either :)
Take Care
Jo

p.s. Should really give you my reasons: Why paper train when you can take them outside from the start, to toilet train? Also, they are not so boisterous that you have to crate them while hoovering etc They are happiest (& therefore better behaved) when they have total 'inclusion' in the family home. ;)

My vote would go to garden training every time, why train a pup to eliminate in the house when left to their own devices they will choose to do it outside, once they are able to control their bladders and bowels.

I do crate training and garden training...same thing as far as I'm concerned. At night or when I'm out pup is in his crate...when I'm home pup is with me and put outside regularly..after meals,sleep etc. Crate training is only a way of toilet training when you are not there...we don't crate when we are at home.
Archer

yes that is what i meant Archer, obviously i wouldnt crate train if i was there, it would be the garden every time. Sorry folks i should have made my query clearer;- i meant at night or when i was out. For those of you who do not crate does/did your baby not wee/poo allover the show?
A breeder told me to garden train all day and then either paper/or crate at the night.

I can only tell you what I've done with my puppies. During the day, when they're awake, I watch them. Constantly. The housework gets done when they are having a sleep. I use these few weeks to study the pup and learn it's character - what makes it tick - because they are all different. I watch for its own particular signal that it needs to go out, and I learn to pre-empt that by taking it into the garden at the first sign. After a couple of days intensive study you don't make many mistakes! At night, and if I need to pop out for an hour or so shopping or walking other dogs, then the pup is shut in the kitchen with one piece of paper by the back door. By about 10 weeks they are usually clean and dry day and night (the record-holder was our first pup, who was completely housetrained by 9 weeks.)

Hi again jo, thanx for the pm's i replyed. i know that you said Rosie was 5 months when you got her was she totally toilot trained day and night then or did you have to do it?

Hi jo thanx for the pM's i replyed. I know that Rosie was 5 months wen u got her, was she totally toilot trained day and night then? when you go out where do you leave her? not sure i would leave a young puppy to roam the house.

IMO The problem with paper training is that you have to train the pup to use the paper.A pup will not differentiate between night and day and if trained to use paper will use it during the day aswell...after all you have trained it to use paper while you have been there during the day.
To crate train the theory is that a puppy will not soil his bed area and so aslong as the crate is a suitable size he will not toilet in his crate.I've had Frankie for 7 days now...no accidents at night and going out 99% of the time during the day....
I think its down to personal preference...whatever works for you.
Archer

HI Archer whats IMO? can i just ask how old was frankie when he started going thru the night.  but b4 this, Did u take him out for one last toilet trip late at night and then put him in his crate? did he soil by morning or did you get up in the nite with him?
p

Hi Deb
IMO means 'in my opinion'
I bought Frankie home at 7 weeks and 5 days old...he has never had an accident over night ...but my other 2 took 2/3 nights to get the hang of it.
I always take him out last thing at night ...about 9:45(then go to work) and he then goes in his crate.I get in at 6 am and he does not go out during the night.I consider he is exceptional..I am very lucky. I(or my hubby) have never had to get up to take him out during the night.We were obviously prepared to get up and take him out if he woke but he has never 'asked' to go out during the night....
Archer

Hi Archer your Frankie sounds great, thanks for all your responses to this, im learning all the time....

Hi Deb
Yes, Rosie was toilet trained...however, she had a new home to contend with as well as a new mum and dad and it was obviously difficult for the first day or two for her. Its not that straight forward and almost like starting all over again. The poor might had to learn where the new 'toilet' door was for a start. :(
Then of course, she was coming to a household with an abundance of love, but little experience. At her last home she would circle to let her owner know she wanted 'out'. However, with us, we learnt that she'd just sit and stare at us - and that was our que. Also, because we were so affraid of her wanting to go out, but not knowing how to tell us at first, we made a huge mistake....this was by actually going up to her and asking her if she wanted to go out....while showing Rosie her lead while she was on her bed :rolleyes: What an embarrasing mistake to admit on this forum....basically, it ended up that within a fortnight, we un-house trained her!! Of course...she started to associate toilet as her bed :rolleyes: [I'm sharing this in the hope some may possibly learn from our mistake?]
Anyway..hope that answers your question, while throwing in a little word of warning if you end up taking on a young rescue basset :D
Take Care
Jo
x
:)
p.s. We're lucky that we live in a bungalow, so Rosie has her own bedroom [with radio & lamp], opening on to a double hallway that is safe for her to freely roam when we're out.

Hi Jo, thanks so much for sharing this, im sure others like me find it all abit confusing and its great to find out and learn from other people's successes and failures. Mine will def be a pup - we only spent some time at the Basset rescue cos we wanted to see and handle the dogs in the flesh as opposed to pictures from a book/websites.
Your bungalow sounds ideal you lucky thing!!! my house sounds a tad more chaotic than yours! we (me,hubby,2 daughters aged 11 and 9 and two cats) live in a large old style semi mind you we do have a big garden and a warm cosy utility room off my kitchen which will hopefully be pup's bedroom at night - tho of course she will be with the family in the day.
Jo how old is Rosie now?
Take care and speak to you soon
Deb X 

Hi Deb
Rosie is just over 10 months old now....and has very much entered her 'Kevin' stage
Jo
x

p.s. Just thinking about the crate pro's and cons for you...do you and your hubby go out to work?

Hi,
I only work 4 hours per day 4 days per week, he works long hours from 7 ish in the morning until 7 ish at night. Why?

What does the Kevin stage entail in doggy speak do tell more...

Hiya.....I was only thinking, that if you didn't go 'out' to work, then perhaps there'd be less need for a crate at all? Anyway, we all need to earn a living and I sympathise...my OH who sickeningly loves his job is also out from 5.15am to 7pm :(         *me and Rosie sulking*
The 'Kevin' stage is a term of phrase I've learnt from this forum :) ...if you key it into the 'search' you'll find loads on it...its basically the 'terrible teens' stage and can start from about 6 months to 2 years....now you have something to really look forward to
Jo
;)

Hmmmn i shall look into that, tho i have it going on at the moment for real with one of my daughters!!!! i have some news for regarding my hopefully soon to be pup will pm you so i dont bore everyone with basset banter!
Deb

Uuummmm....I'm waiting.....albeit impatiently *tapping fingers*  ;)
Come on...give us the news the Deb !
:D

ps. Hold your cursor over the smilies and it shows you how they are done...for others...see 'Help'
Jo
x

What news??? do you mean about whether Ethel has got buns in her oven? if so dont know yet...
did you get my pm last night? my lap top is going to have to go in it keeps just blanking out even when plugged inot the mains and it went fynny last night when i was pm ing you. Am going have to hijack the kids for now :D

Hi jacking as in the kids computer!! :-D

Hi
Got your pm and replied Deb.....it contained the news I was weighting for. Congratulations on choosing your breeder - I know you'll be overjoyed with her litter ;) ...(although Rosie's mum isn't Ethel its - Dam: Bassbarr Mystery Maid and, Sire : Dereheath Jolly Jon (2CCs) )
Jo
:D

Thanxs Jo i  really really HOPE that she will be my  breeder but like i said Ethel may not have caught :-( Im dying to email her to find out but my hubby wants me to leave it until after Easter. I have a pessimistic feeling tho that she may not be pregnant - i dont know why maybe its just paranoia!

Anyway, ouside of the family you shall be the very first to know!!!
TTFN
Deb

IMO both paper & crate, plus frequent trips outside to learn what you really want!

Thanks!
Deb

Hi Deb, I begin to paper train home bred puppies in the whelping box at > 3 weeks. I put in a very low divider with comfy vetbed on one side and newspaper on the other. They generally get the idea fast - though not infallibly. :D Once they begin to come out of the box one area of the whelping room floor is papered. Again I find that they use it most - but by no means 100% - of the time. When the pups come into the main house they have a papered area in the kitchen. Again not 100% but they use it most of the time. Ideally at this stage they also get taken out after sleep, meals and every hour. Fine in summer, but try herding a large litter outdoors when it's freezing and pelting it down! So with winter litters I hope to send them to their new homes mostly paper trained and with some idea of going outside. I hope to do better than that with summer litters.

With the pups I keep or bought in pups I use a cage mostly for safety but also as a house training aid. My cage is large so as with the whelping box the pup(s) have a comfy bed at one end and paper at the other. At the same time I take the pup(s) out hourly at first, plus after food & sleep. I also set the alarm and take them out once in the middle of the night. When there is only one pup or at most two, they go out - willing ot not! - regardless of the weather and out we stay until the pup performs and can be lavished with praise. :)

Have to say I've never had the slightest problem moving from paper training to 'outside to toilet'. With some pups the paper can be removed completely within days of beginning 'formal' toilet training. With others it stays down longer (sometimes as much as 2 - 3 weeks) as a 'safety net' should I miss the pup's signals or if (s)he forgets or is caught short. Maybe it's luck and maybe my breed is simply quick to toilet train, but the majority of new owners tell me that their puppy is almost completely clean within a few days in their new home.

Thanx so much for this Jas! what do you breed? i think i will do what you do garden train every hour and efter food/sleep then put paper down in one area at night, because if i am being honest  i know that i wont get up in the night to let pup out of the crate. This is not because im being lazy but for years i suffered with insomnia and it really affected my well-being. Even now if i wake up in the night i can hardly ever get back and broken sleep can really set of an attack of insomnia so obviously i dont want to go down that route. But  what you said makes good sense; garden, crate and paper what ever helps sounds good to me.
Thanx again Deb

I never thought I would wake up in the night either, both of us being deep sleepers, when Millie was downstairs in her cage, but have you ever heard a puppy wail in the night because it wants to go to the toilet? Trust me, you would wake up and get up!;-)