hi dont know if anyone can remember me from christmas time i thought my dog was pregnant but she had phantom??well she is now due in season anytime now she is 4 in september she has not had a litter yet i have tried the past 4 times with no joy if she doesnt get pregnant this time im not gonna even try again. well the problem is i take her to the dog they play for a bit then he will mount her and go for it then she turns her head to see what hes doing then she gets on him??ive tried holding her but she doesnt want to know the dog when im there.ive tried another dog with more expierience and exactley the same. the last season i thought it could of worked because all of the dogs privates came out they were there for a while didnt lock though then she moved, dog bless him had to stand there for few seconds before he could move.the lady who dog it is tried to hold her but she wasnt bothered with dog still.i normally start going to dog on day 11 so i dont miss her its good because the dog lives local i can do that.tell you what i thought i could do with one of those things that cows put there head through to hold them still lol ha ha..when shes playing shes putting her butt in his face tail right to side shes a right tart but when he does it she moves???thinkl im getting right dates shes up for it he is but i dont know..do you get bitches that just wont mate??any solutions welcome ..jo

hi Jo

i had a bitch like this before, it took 3 season to get it right. we were taken her to the stud to later in her season. 
on the last go i had the dog stay with me from the second day of her season.  the dog had been used a few times before so did not try anything until he know she was ready.  they tied on her 5th day only the once and we had a good size litter of 8

hi do you think its just staffs then because a number of people with staffs have said they had problems at first lol i wonder then weather i should do that but one time we had him come round ours and he just wouldnt settle was  hear for few hours but wasnt interested in mitz but next day took her up to him and he couldnt get enough another thing is the dog lives with his mum hes fine for her to stay indoors while he tries but for him to stay with me not sure how hell be another thing i could do is go round there from day 2 and then i can see how they act different days .the owner says there really clingy as soon as the bitch goes he goes straight to his mum curls up and crashes out lol .but last season i took her vets and had one of them test done me being thick thought they would take blood and say right in two or 3 days shell be ready i took her on day 8 and they said no bring her in 2 days well try again it was 20pound each time i know its only 20 pound but it would of been 40 then 60 so i didnt take her back i just went up dogs from day 12 .Funny thing is when she gets in my car to go when we start going up street she goes mad wimpering  jumping about as soon as open door she gone standing at back gate waiting for sarah to open it haha ...jo

i think going up most days after about day 3 would be a good idea.
she could be 1 that is ready early. 
let them play for a little say a few mins, then get her to come to you, then hold her and let him do what he wants ;).  she might not like it if they do tie and you might have to hold her.  i had 1 bitch that was a right tart but hated it when they were in the tie and i don't think it was cos we mated her late cos it was only day 8, she wiggled and wiggled for the whole time and you have to make sure that she don't hurt her or him.

i don't think its a stafford problem cos it can happen with a lot of maiden bitches.  hope this helps

thanks i think ill try that we always keep an eye on them secretly any way haha so that if they tied and she moved alot then i could go out and hold her as i know that they can hurt themselfs if move around.just looking at last time she was in season she came in september 18th so she should be in any time now ill just have to wait she always comes 2 weeks either way so not worrying yet??????the lady who owns dog knows she due any time now and shes brilliant any way she gets as excited as me were like school children lol
                                                  jo
                                                                                                           

Maiden bitches often behave this way, flirting up till the last second then getting 'cold feet'. It's best to hold tthe bitches collar firmly on both sides of her neck (crouch in front of her) so that she can't turn her head. Handle her firmly but gently and don't let her faff about. The dog will be able to 'do his stuff' efficiently, and you'll find that your bitch behaves like a right little trollop afterwards!

Jo, having read your post on another thread, I see you are mating your unregistered bitch to an unregistered dog for the simple reason that she has a good temprament. If it doesn't matter that the bitch isn't registered, what else have you decided to ignore, you cannot have had her eye tested or hip scored as she MUST be registered with the Kennel Club for that. Do you think that this is the best way to embark upon a breeding programme?
Dawn R.

Hello Dawn
Just a note to say that a dog does not have to be KC registered for any health check,
be it hips, eyes or any other test. 
A dog only requires to be KC registered to compete in KC registered events or to
have progeny KC registered.
Wouldn't like to think that anyone reading your post out of context would think that
hip and eye checks can only be done on KC registered dogs.
I do agree that the relevant checks for the breed should be done.

Regrds

Abbeypap, can you explain how can a dog be hip-scored without a KC registration number on the X-ray, as that is the ID required without which I believe the KC/BVA panel won't look at it?

Hello Jeanenie
Still learning, and willing to as well. (Don't know how to do little round faces)
I know that the KC registration number is required for Hip score by KC/BVA panel as is KC registration required
by the vet that does the eye checks. (Personal experience with my own dogs here)

I was under the impression (maybe mistakenly) that a vet will health check (not score) hips and eyes for any defect
that particular dog might have regardless of KC registration, if you ask.
Not everyone lets there vet know that they are breeding there dogs.
Apologies to Dawn I spoke of checks not scores.
Regards
Joan

The thing is, Joan, although all vets can take the x-rays, not all of them can interpret them correctly, and they cannot issue the necessary proof. So although any animal, as you say, can be checked, without the official certificate neither breeder nor buyer has any legal safeguard. Nowadays that's a big risk to take.
:)

Hi Abbeypap, we go to great lengths here, to ensure that first time breeders understand, that a quick once over by their vet will not suffice, when it comes to deciding if a bitch is suitable, and healthy enough to breed from. In this age of litigation, puppy buyers can and will, persue compensation through the small claims courts if they think the breeder has not done everything possible to ensure the health of their puppy. If documentary evidence of health screening is available the breeder stands a fighting chance.

Vets are usually OK at diagnosis and treatment of illness in our animals, but I would not accept the say so of a vet on how to conduct my breeding programme.
Dawn R.

as i said im letting her have one litter and its not that im IGNORING things i know my bitches background and the dogs background and we have good homes ready for if it ever happens .im well aware of things that can go wrong and so on but every one starts some where and cause shes lovely and dogs lovely were  doing it NOT for showing but for loveable pets as not every one wants dogs for showing (not meaning that nasterly) but some cant afford 500 pound a pup and me and the dogs owner are working together on this and will know where pups are going etc. as all local.....plus both bitch and dog havent had eye test hip score etc. but our vets are well aware what we are doing and both are healthy and every thing up to date with vet...
                                                              jo

Abbeypap, you can have a dogs eyes tested, but you cannot have a certificate from the panelist vet, that also requires a KC registration number. So how then do you prove to the puppy buyers that the dog has passed? I stand by the post I made earlier.

Jo, show breeders, for want of a better decription, breed the best to the best, and in a litter they may if they are lucky, get a puppy of quality to keep. The remainder are destined for pet homes, there is no shortage of nice pets for people who do not wish to show. If you can afford to sell your planned pups for less then £500 then you'll be either selling at a loss or cutting corners in their rearing, it costs alot of money to do this right.You admitted that your bitch has 'bat ears' a big no no, your words not mine. Wouldn't you rather wait until you have aquired a quality KC registered bitch,get her through her KC/BVA health screening, hopefully, and find the very best stud dog you can find, not the handiest local dog, and breed a high quality litter that you can be proud of. On yet another thread you say that you want a pup from your friend because her bitch is KC registered even you seem to feel that one of your own pups will be inferior.

Think about this!
Dawn R.

You would need a microchip or tattoo for most panelists too(was told this at Crufts)for them to ensure the dog they test is the dog on any paperwork they issue

ive never done this before so i wont know if ill be at a loss or not but ill keep you informed: dont worry im not gonna cut corners or be cheap scape they will get everything they need..my bitch has bat ears ,yes it is a no no for SHOWING but as i said before im not and in books it says doesnt mean pups will have bat ears as mitz was the only pup out of 8 with bat ears and  her mum and dad didnt????
the dog im using is not the so called hardiest local dog and when or if mitz had pups i will be proud of her and her pups...
and me wanting one of my friends pups if she had any is purely because i am looking into showing and i know my bitch has bat ears which is a fault and she is not kc. if i decide not to show then i will keep one of my own pups as i know they will be GREAT ???????????????

ps  message to all other readers im not having digs at you just explaining myself to dawn come on here for chat and to learn and get put down for it ???????????

                                                    jo

There is non so deaf as those that will not hear.

Jo, I'm trying to help you to make informed decisions. I'll but out though, you have made up your mind to do this your way, you're not looking for advice are you?
Dawn R.

the only advice i asked for was about my bitch not tying ,yes i am willing to listen , im not doing this either to make money?? eventually i might start showing,the dog or bitch i get might be good,then i might decide to breed for the same purpose as you but until then im doing this for one of as an expieriance for me and my bitch and i would like her to have a litter ???? what dogs do you breed???  i cant see the problem in that unless there were a risk of losing my bitch but if i do everything i can and right and have vet etc. waiting we should be ok .as i said earlier im trying her this season and if no joy then im not trying again????

Hi Jo, most people avoid breeding from any animal with obvious faults, to stop those faults being perpetuated. I have had several pedigree, KC registered dogs with excellent bloodlines, but like 90% of pedigree dogs, they had faults which made breeding from them out of the question. One was cow-hocked, one 'pins-in' at the front, and another is simply too slightly-built. Delightful temperaments, but although that is vital in a breeding animal, it's not enough on its own. They were/are still much-loved pets however.
:)

hi jan, but even though im not doing for showing and the people there going to are not interested in breeding they are simply just going to be loving companions etc. im doing this once with my bitch if it works this time, if not then i wont be mating her thats it end of..it just would be nice to let her have one litter and while im at home for her it seemed good time im not going to keep doing it. if it dont work this time obviously it isnt meant to be ....
                                   thanks anyway jan
                                                                 jo

You're very lucky if there are so few of your breed in rescue that you don't run the risk of adding to them. It's not something I was prepared to do. It's very odd the way people who say "Ooh, we'd love one of her puppies!" melt away like snow in summer once the pups arrive ...

Good luck!
:)

im not saying there are not many staffs in rescue homes but i dont see how im adding by doing this the once and like i said the people who are having them are not wanting to breed from them??tell you what you think im really bad for doing this theres a girl who lives in our town and she has 2 bitches both unregistered and breeds all the time she must do it every season she does it purely for money id hate to think what you all would say to her if this is what i get for doing it the once???????????

                                           thanks jo

Hello Jo

Biggest problem with this site is that we don't all know each other. Which is understanable considering we live scattered across the British Isles if not the world.
We might even have the kettle calling the pot black on here and not know it !!!!!!!!!!
You asked for some advice and that initial question led to a discussion taking place in which a number of people gave of there opinions.  Advice can only be given, it is up to you if you use it or not. 
The girl in your town did not do as you have done, which was to seek advice, therefore I would think that you are a little more sensible and will make the right decision for you and your dog, whether posters on CD approve or not.
I had a friend bred her SBT once(unregistered) had 11 pup 8 of them bitches, all went to good homes.  3 of the bitches were mated on there 2nd season and two more have just been mated, muliply that out and ask how  many ended up pts or in rescue, all because there owners just wanted them to have puppies to go to good homes.
Please take your time with your girl, learn as much as you can about your breed and read/listen to the happy stories of puppies and good homes, but do remember the not so good homes that are  out there and the whelpings that don't always come to a happy conclusion.
Regards
Joan

hi joan,
          i dont mind reply its just that i feel that dawn was getting sarcastic with me and yes i do want to listen and learn i really thought i was doing it for good reasons after seeing so many people abusing there bitches time after time but perhaps your right maybe i wont bother???im going to my 1st staffordshire bull terrier show on may 2nd to have a look and get more info. etc. so might just go shows for a while looking and learning then possibly next year get a good dog and show it????and leave the breeding to the experts?????

                                                 thanks every one any way
                                                                 jo

            

Hello Jo

I wish I knew an expert breeder, I have and do breed my girls, but I also know a lot of people who have been breeding for a number of years and I would say they maybe have more confidence and experience to deal with a situation that may arise from a whelping, do the health checks and breed suitable KC registered and pedigreed dogs.  That is why when someone wants to breed for the first time I would say speak to people and ask for advise and if needed help, most breeders that care for there breed will be only to happy to help in any way they can.

Let us know how you get on at the show, it's an experience you will always remember, even though trying to remember names of people and dogs is the harderst part of all. 
Main part of the day is to have a nice day with other people who enjoy the same thing you do, and that's dogs.  Be they big, small, pretty or brawny.  Enjoy your day.
Regards
Joan

JO,

Being honest with you and not being mean in anyway if anyone came to most of us ( I think and hope) and ask advice on buying a puppy that was not KC registered and from non Health tested parents they would be adviced to run in the other direction. Whist you say you have homes lined up for them you have no idea how often this same things comes up here.  

Although the KC is not a 100% guarantee of parentage and history it is the best method we have.  You have nothing to back up where your bitch has came from.

If your bitch had 8 puppies can you assure homes for them with you if you cannot home them?  What if there was a ressessive health issue you didn't know about etc etc?

There are hundreds of thousands of Staffies in rescue and registered everyday.
you have to ask yourself why anyone would buy from you with no paperwork etc when they can go to a known breeder and buy a puppy with a guarantee , KC , test etc for nearly the same money.    You just have to look in a paper there is aways loads of litters TOO many.
Now you may say your bitch has a nce temperment  but so does the puppies of experienced and tests dogs so you have truely nothing to give in your puppies more than anyone else. Does that make sense??

Sorry but even though you have only ask for one particular peice of advice members of the board are not going to support or advocate breeding outwith good general guidelines.

I do hope you wait and find a nice sound bitch in the future , have a bit of fun showing her etc and get as much help as you can on the way.

BFN.

Hi Jo

I know none of this is what you were hoping to hear, and you must be really disappointed at the comments.  But in your excitement at the prospect of a lovely litter of puppies, please remember that it is the people who aren't prepared to pay £500 for a pup whose parents have had all the health checks and is KC registered who are the most likely to discard it when it needs a big vet's bill or kennelling at holiday time, or does damage in the home.  It cost me more than £500 to get my car serviced, so for a dog that will be a member of a family for hopefully 12 years, it's not a great amount.

In my breed (boxers) white puppies are sold for about half the price of the coloured puppies, and I am so careful where they go, because it is human nature for someone to think "Hey I'm not paying £300 vet's bill - that is more than the dog is worth".  All my friends say that same when it comes to selling white puppies, and the proportion of whites in a litter is usually 25% or less, but guess what - rescue has more whites than coloureds.  I wonder why. 

>it just would be nice to let her have one litter <

Im afraid bitches are not "let" litters unless you allow them to roam with every mongrel - they have no say in it.  How nice if it does go right.  How awful if it doesnt - first litter at age 4?  Id be thinking hard by now.
I am not digging or picking.  As you say, some people cannot afford five hundred pounds for a pup.  These are maybe the people who just arent prepared to do what the rest of the population do, and save their butts off!  Raising a litter of poor quality unregistered, possibly health compromised mutts is as costly as rearing the next crufts best in show.  I swear that in terms of cash, time and worry, without fail it would be cheaper for me to always buy a puppy than breed one for myself.  I do so though because Im a blasted fool, and never learn.  But then I show and health test above and beyond what is required for my breed.  I also buy back pups who are in trouble.  And believe me, the cheaper you sell them and the less people will think about getting one.  See it, want it, get it, no loss to get rid in 6 months.  not  see it, want it, save for it, value it,

hi jane
   as i just wrote in previous thread you had replied to im no longer mating mine ive been told everything your saying and ive listened and i know not to mate her now im looking into showing now if you read the show forum im leaving the breeding to the experts....
                                                    thanks jo

Jo
<<<like i said the people who are having them are not wanting to breed from them like i said the people who are having them are not wanting to breed from them>>>
Thats what they say now!! Did you buy your bitch with the intention of breeding? I bet not and so I would be 99% sure that if your bitch has a reasonable sized litter some of those 'pet only' staffies will go on to add to the non registered population of staffs.
This is the way breeds end up looking nothing like they are supposed to.How many times have we all seen staffs that look like small brindle labs,or GSD that are lightly boned or have soft ears etc...?? I saw a westie at the vets the other day...it was as big as a basset hound!
I'm not saying this is what yours will look like but responsible breeders who breed for the good of the breed research the pedigrees and virtues of the 2 dogs they are breeding and breed to produce a dog as near breed standard as possible.To breed for temperament alone is not enough.
Archer

IM NOT BREEDING HER NOW I KNOW ITS FOR THE WRONG REASONS???

Jo
wasn't meaning to get at you.Its obvious you love your girl!! We're not ogres on here really...we just love dogs.
Hope your freinds litter goes well later in the year....and if you decide to show with your next pup I wish every success.
Archer

Thanks for that jo

how nice for once that the original poster has actually listened to the experienced advice, and if does decide to do any breeding in the future at least has something to go on now...Good luck Jo!

thanks for that im also reading book of the bitch aswell.so in year or so i might be able to help some one like me who doesnt know where to start and wants infomation lol still looking forward to dog show?? cant wait
                                     thanks again for reading this jo

Jo
where are you going and when.Can remember my first champ show....only 3 years ago so I should!! I took my elkie...he was 6 months and 1 day...a first for both of us. Been hooked ever since!
Archer

hi archer,
              im going on 2nd may its the east midlands staffordshire bull terrier show at asfordby amatures,which is only about 3 miles from me which is ideal for me...
                                                      thanks jo