Hi

My husband and I are hoping to get a boxer pup but am looking for an experienced boxer owner/ breeder to answer all my questions! :)
Here are a few of them - I have a bitch Meg who is a lab x. She is 12 and an absolutely lovely kind dog. Which sex of puppy is best suited to her a boy or girl? Is there much difference between bog and bitch boxers? I have seen a few adverts in the local ad mag but know I take a risk getting one from here is there anything I can do to make it safer. ie making sure it's KC registered, heart tested etc.
I have applied to become a member of the northern boxer club, should i be a member anywhere else?

I have loads more but won't over load you right now!!

Thanks
Helen

Hi Helen
would just like ti say welcome to the board and well done for going about the finding of a new friend in the right way.
Sure someone will be along to help you soon
Archer

Hi Helen,
Hopefully I can answer some of your questions...
It really depends on the character & temperament of the puppy as to which sex you go for,
ideally you want something to compliment your bitch.
I had one of my puppy owners choose a dog puppy as he was so laid back and their BC bitch
was a very dominant bitch.
I personally have 3 bitches together ranging from almost 6 yo, 3yo and a 12 week pup.
I've had 2 bitches that live in complete harmony and never a cross word. Although have
known people that have had problems with just having bitches etc.
Some will say a pair of either sex is best..
The difference in dogs and bitches , well apart from size, weight and strength which the males
tend to be bigger and stronger etc. It's character some males that I've handled have been very laid
back whereas some of the females very bouncy, but I do honestly believe it's the dogs personality and
temperament as an individual and the environment in which they are brought up which shapes them.

YES - Check that BOTH parents of the boxer pups are heart-tested and graded clear.
The grades which are considered clear are 0 (Best score) & 1. You can see a listing of KC registered names
of all the Boxers in UK that are heart-tested clear on the internet. website is www.boxerunderground.com/uk
This lists the names in Alpha order and in bitches and dogs. The breeder should be able to produce the heart-testing
certificate of at least the dam (mother) and if they own the sire, his too.

YES - KC registration is a good thing as you can trace any health testing, another obvious thing is you can
show your dog if it is a good enough specimen. If it's not KC registered you cannot show the dog nor breed it and register
the pups. People buy pups which are registered with the 'alternative' registration people and feel cheated when
they find out that the pup they bought thinking it was UK KC registered turns out to be DLRC registered etc.

NO - you don't have to be a member of all or more Boxer clubs if you don't want to be.
Infact with the Northern Boxer club they have a puppyline which helps put you in contact with Boxer puppy
breeders that do adhere to the heart-testing etc. Ring the secretary of the club and she should be able to
put you in contact with the people that run the puppyline.
They also have their championship show on Sunday 11th April at Whitcliffe Mount Sports Complex in Cleckheaton
so you could go and see some of the boxers on show..(you can't take Meg into the show though, unentered dogs aren't allowed into
the show area).

The other things which you will want to ask yourself is what colour (Red/Brindle/White) do you want? Whites aren't rare
but you can't show nor breed from them. They are great companions and you shouldn't expect to pay more than half the price
of a red or brindle for a white puppy. You can compete in obedience and agility with white Boxers..I do know people that do
and they are successful. Important to note that SOME white pups can be deaf but not all are.

Docked or undocked? (short-tail or long tail) The Boxer is normally customarily docked.
Not alot of responsible breeders have undocked puppies, so you may have a long wait to get a puppy with a long tail,
you may have to pre-book and pay upfront for the puppy so that the breeder will leave the puppy undocked.
There are 'backyard' breeders (just breeding for the money and don't care about the welfare of pups or dam's)
that will have pups with tails, but they have not made the conscious decision to leave the tails on based on their own ethics.
If you do want a long tailed puppy please make sure that the breeders have done the heart testing and
other health tests available to make sure that they are a responsible breeder rather than a 'backyard' breeder.
There is the bob-tail Boxer which has a naturally short-tail, if you want to learn more about these go to website
www.steynmere.com and click on the bob-tail buttons.

There are lots of good books to learn about the Boxer as a breed - order them in to read from the library if you can,
then it costs nothing to read, and eventually you can buy the book you found most helpful.

I'm sure you'll have lots more questions...feel free to ask as there are quite alot of us Boxer people that come
here :)

Can't add anything to Boxacrazy's lovely informative message except - welcome to Champdogs Forum, hope you find your dream puppy - and well done Boxacrazy for such a helpful message to a newbie! ;)

Margot

i agree with boxacrazy that you cannot make a decision on dog or bitch based ona sex alone, you have to see the puppys temperament and personality and a good breeder who knows there puppies will be able to steer you in the right direction as to which of the puppies is outgoing which are introvertor shy which are dominant etc - i know of a nice litter not born yet out of a nice bitch and excellent dog both are health checked if you want more info then e-mail me and i can give you the details - with boxers it is best to get a recommended breeder rather than buy out of the paper and then you will get a lifetime of invaluable advice from your breeder instead of a breeder who moves house after a few weeks. I have to say that once you have had a boxer then you wil stay with them forever, i said after my last one i wouldn't have another because she had alot of health problems but i couldn't resist and bought a new puppy just after christmas even though i have rottweilers i am a truly boxer person at heart.

WOW!! :)

Thank you for some great advice. I will be at the show next sunday to learn more. I have horses and show them so want to show my boxer as i have been bitten by the showing bug.
I don't have a preference with colour but my husband likes red and whites, i prefer to just go for which ever has the best temprement -  oh and looks the cutest (hmmm i'd end up with all of them!) :)

Can anyone recommend any good books. I've bought a basic owners guide and read that but it isn't too detailed. I'm the kind of person who likes to find out everything they possibly can and then bore my family to death with all the interesting facts. :)

i will put some serious thought in about Meg. She is an old girl (12) but still acts like a puppy herself sometimes and I should imagine will live another couple of years at least as she has the consitution of an ox being a x breed. I don't think she's too dominant, my sister has an ESS puppy and Meg is very tolerant and takes it all in her stride. He's a boy however and I do worry about getting the female puppy that I'd prefer. Any more help on this is appreciated.

Thanks
Helen

Thanks Maxisleepi. Have sent you a message. :)

Helen
Have you looked on the boxer page of champdogs...theres some red and white pups on there looking for show/pet homes
Archer

HI Archer.

Will have a look but have a feeling i've already phoned them and they are all reserved. :(

Thanks Anyway though.

Helen

try www.pedigreedogs.co.uk  ...available litters.Litter from show lines.
Archer

hi

welcome, i have a boxer bitch who is very very bouncy and energetic, boxers can be an hard breed at times as they have endless energy and a love for life like no other, but are very loyal and intelligent so take your vitamin tonic before you get one, if its anything like mine your gonna need it!!!

j

apparently - red/white boxers are difficult to do well in the ring with as the red and white shows the faults, unless its an exceptional red/white - i know someone will come along and tell me this is rubbish but this is what i was told when i was looking for a red and white to show.

I think what 'they' meant was that the brindling can hide sometimes the fact
that the dog has lost weight or carrying too much weight whereas on a red
your eyes can not be deceived. (same problem when you have a white one too!)
It's the solid colour, the brindling can produce an optical illusion, which soon vanishes once
the judge gets their hands on the dog!!
Same as the markings, optical illusion can be deceptive.
I haven't met too much of a problem when showing reds against brindles.
I've been showing both colours for 15 or so years now.
You do get some that do colour judge but to be honest that was more
apparent in my early years of showing, now people don't seem to be so colour biased.

I may bump into you at the show :)
As I'm entered there with my middle bitch (brindle)....her mother is in semi-retirement from the ring :D
I have to have a sense of humour to show her and I've lost it at the moment...she's mad and red
and may come out of retirement when she's a veteran and 'calmer'??!!! :D LOL don't think she'll ever calm down!!
LOL some believe that reds are more exuberant and crazy compared to their brindle counterparts.....
Although some say that their dogs tend to go nuts when I'm around, I have this effect on them :D

Good Books, well I have loads of both current and out of print books on the breed.
Other than the Tim Hutchings one that has been mentioned there is also Boxers by Ivor Ward-Davies (Winuwuk)
who actually taught Tim the 'tricks of the trade', Tim is co-owner of the Winuwuk kennel.
Boxers today by Jo Royle, if you want to get into showing another good one although out of print is
Boxer Blarney by Marian Fairbrother and Peggy Thomson, this explains in more detail the breed standard and has
very good drawings to illustrate the points. (You may find this on ebay or at some breed shows)

If you want to show you need to pay attention to the markings and don't go for ones that have too much white,
especially over the face, (I'll explain more in horse terminology markings) The blaze should not go over the eye or up
the side of the face (muzzle), markings on the legs can be described as socks, stockings, feet. Ideally you want to
go for legs that don't have high white stockings that the white comes over the elbows or above/over the shoulder.
Nor do you want white that comes over the quarters on the rear legs.
There can also be white as a collar of half collar on the neck and then you get white chest too.
All these breeders would term flashy or semi-flashy and the more white markings you have remember the higher the likely
hood of producing white pups if you want to breed later on.
The standard says that the dog must have no more than 1/3 white. The 'ideal' for a show prospect is 4 white socks,
and a symmetrical white blaze.....however in reality it don't happen often that you get the best construction/head and markings
all in the same dog....:) But I'm sure I don't need to tell you this if you show horses ;)
It's hard to capaign a dog what some term solid or plains, which means that they have very little if any white markings.
White is normally confined to the toes and chest. They do get 'knocked' when competing against flashily marked rivals in the ring.
They can be plain faced i.e. no white markings on their heads/faces. My puppy has a drizzle of white on her face, but by the time
she's ready to show, she'll probably have lost most of it..
Brindles are the majority colour within the breed and these come in varying shades of brindle. But in the UK in the show ring
the reverse brindle is not accepted. Reverse brindle is where the base colour is black and it has red stripes. The correct brindle
is red (from a deer red to a lighter red/fawn) background with black stripes.
Reds can go from the dark deer red to almost fawn. But I've found the lighter red the worse the pigmentation is, they are almost
chocolate masks/noses when you really need black masks & noses. That's why a lot of breeders will use brindles to reds to keep their pigmentation dark on the reds.

Prices will vary depending on geographic location, top bloodlines, Champion dam/sire etc etc etc.
Prices range from £500-800 for promising pups. Remember that no-one can honestly sell you a guaranteed winner.
All they can do is sell a 'promising' pup, which if they know their bloodlines should turn out ok for the show ring.
There's a lot that can happen between 8 weeks and 6 months of age!!
If you go for a male it must have two testicles descended, so do check the pup to see if it has 2!
I know that some haven't bothered and then been awfully disappointed when they find pup has none or only 1 testicle.

Another health issue which has raised it's head within the breed is cardiomyopathy (Heart). This is a relatively new
problem for the Boxer in the UK. There was a talk on this issue recently, and alot has been published in the
dog papers. (Dog World and Our Dogs, which come out every week on a friday, you have to order these papers in
if you have a small newsagent).

Best Of luck and if you have any more questions keep asking we are here to help :)
Kind Regards
Kirstine

hello boxacrazy - where abouts do you show? i have just got my first showing boxer even though i have had boxers before and i have rotties that i show - i find the boxer people alot more friendly. Have just been to my first boxer training night and was told that my bitch is lovely so i'm very chuffed considering i rescued her from a bad home they say she will do well in the ring and one of the women said she has one of the best mouths she's seen on a boxer for a long time!!!! my first show with her is a boxer champ show in durham will you be there??

I show all over at champ shows...
I have a few lined up for April, if my health allows me to travel to Cleckheaton 11th April,
Builth Wells 17th and Welks, Malvern 25th April.
Which club show is it? Tyne Wear and Tees?

I tend to stick within 2 hours travelling of home for open shows though, and I'm based
in the 'home counties' down south....

Wish you the Best of Luck with your bitch, enjoy showing her!
I've had 15 years of fun with the Boxers I've shown and am still enjoying myself now.
I can't wait til July when I bring out my 'new' baby who is co-owned with her breeder.
She's a monkey but has the right attitude for the ring ;) :D

yes it is tyne and wear i am the same i will only travel within a certain distance of my home the furthest i am going is skc. hoping my puppy will do well as i've not shown boxers before so have alot to learn first though.

I agree with everything you've said there. I'm a Boxer owner too. However, I do find it sad that you label those who choose not to dock as backyard breeders. If only more responsible breeders chose not to mutilate a dog so unnecessarily, things would be a lot different. :(

If you read my posting carefully I would hope you'd understand that I DON'T tar all those that don't dock
as irresponsible.
If you re-read  my posting I hope you will notice that I advise that Helen checks to ensure that those breeders that have
tailed puppies have done all the necessary health checks to ensure that they ARE responsible breeders.

:)

I thought you put it very well and if I bred boxers would not have taken offence at all :D

Phew, had to go and re-read my posting to make sure that I had written it before posting the reply :)

I would also like to point out that just because some breeders dock doesn't mean to say that all of
them are responsible either, you have to make sure that they DO do the health testing etc to make
sure that they are a responsible breeder ;)

Thanks Christine.
I know the docking debate is a emotive subject, that why I like to keep a balanced in 'perspective'
view when informing potential puppy enquirers.
I hope that the above now redresses and makes it a completely balanced view :)

No, sorry, I didnt take it badly, what I meant was that you said that those that dont dock are generally backyard breeders - it was the wording not the thought behind it. I suppose thats true, I just wish more responsible breeders chose to leave a pup with what he/she was born with. I didnt mean it badly against you.

Theres a great book called The Complete Boxer by Tim Hutchings ( got mine off www.amazon.co.uk - only took 1 and a half days to arrive) it has loads of info. If you're set on having a Boxer I would recommend it.
Dexy

did you get my message about the pups maxisleepi? still new at this so not sure :) Would love to know about any forth coming litters.

Having looked through some sights we are open to any colour, I didn't know that about red/whites. I would only be doing a bit of showing though so it wouldn't really bother me. I have to be honest and say most boxers look the same (to my inexperienced eye) and I wouldn't be able to tell the faults unless they came and smacked me in the face. ;)
It's a good job i've got you guys.

Helen

Since your not experienced and you want to show its most important that you choose a breeder who breeds for the ring and who you trust.You can then be led by them as to which pups are show quality and they will help you with your pup and showing long term.
Don't be frightened to phone breeders and ask questions...you'll soon get the feel of wether this is a person who you can communicate with...if not find another....help from your pups breeder is invaluable.
Archer

THANKS Boxacrazy, when you explain it in horsey terms it's easy!! :)
I have a fair idea about what i'm lookin for now which is fantastic and makes it alot easier. I have emailed a few breeders and am hoping for some to get back to me.
I will defiantely look out for you at the show on sunday.
I have decided to look at getting our pup in or after June so I can make sure i'm fully researched. If anyone knows of any forth coming litters then please message me.

I am off to the library tomorrow to order some books in - although I have just been on amazon and bought a couple. :)

Once again Many thanks to all who have helped me on this post. It is greatly appreciated.

Helen

Thanks Archer, it's frustrating how posts seem to cross.
I will definately take your advice and phone a few breeders, I agree I need someone for the long haul as it were. It's one of ther easons I am joining the boxer club as I want to be as clued up as possible.
I think now having found this site i'll be fine, you're all so lovely.
THANKS :)

post moved to below

hi i have got a 6 year old bitch boxer and she acts like a pup still. she is very energetic and also very intelligent. the only obvious difference between dogs and bitchs are that the dogs are bigger in size. When you do get your pup be aware of the very loud snoring and the smelly pops that they do.  good luck with your pup

lauren :)

HI,

Just thought i'd update you all. I have found a breeder (Meniscus in Lancashire) who is due some puppies soon. I am now on their waiting list for a dog and as it was a brindle/brindle mating i'm guessing the colour will be brindle. :)
I am very excited but it seems such a long time to wait as they won't be ready until the end of June!
The sire in ch Wildax father ted and he looks a lovely dog.

Anyway i'm hoping all will go well, I can't wait for the loud snoring and vile smells. Oh the joy of dogs! :)

great to hear your good news the time will fly by. will you be seeing him at 4 weeks?
once again good luck with your new puppy.  :)

lauren bailey  :)

Awwww...so pleased for you.I waited for 12+ months for my new baby...it'll be worth the wait!!Loads of time to look for puppy goodies!!
Archer

If you are going to show it would be worthwhile to subscribe to "Boxer Quarterly". Also, the Boxer Blue Books would be of interest.

If thats what you want good luck, but in your e mail to me yesterday you said you had both set your heart on a Red boy, were looking for show quality and were prepared to wait for the right dog. You cannot know for sure that there will be anything in the litter which is show quality, I know nobody can guarantee when you buy a puppy it will live up to it's potential but it is pretty impossible to ear mark one from an unborn litter - If you do like the idea of showing don't compromise now get exactly what you want even if you have to wait a little longer and I would be looking towards a kennel who have consistently helped newcomers or are at least exhibiting their own dogs with  some success. I cannot coment on the quality of this litter as I have never seen a dog from this kennel they may be lovely puppies the sire is indeed a very nice dog, just be sure as some breeders can be very persuasive to get a sale. It would also be nice to e mail any kennels who have offered help to say thanks but I am fixed up (when you are) I have stopped taking names for litters unless I know the people personally, but I have spoken to breeders lately who have sifted through people on their list who seemed definitely interested to find they have bought a puppy as they couldn't wait and not bothered to inform them.

My dogs parents were: Very dark brindle (mother) x light brindle (father) and there were reds + brindles in the litter. I think it depends on the genes? So you never know there may be reds in the litter.

Dexy

hmmm. Well things are certainly not set in stone now and to be honest i'm more confused than when I started!!

I have my name down at one breeders but there are questions regarding the dam, also yes it would be a compramise to get a brindle as we do want a red and white. I'm just unsure as to what to compramise on colour or quality? Hopefully there will be reds in this litter, but what if a brindle is more show quality?
I have talked to a couple of other breeders but feel a bit uncomfortable putting my names down with them as I don't want to let them down. Do people just go for one breeder and then just wait for the right puppy or do they go with a few only to let others down?
Also the whole show quality thing is a little confusing, if the breeder can't tell whether a dog will be suitable for showing when it's older then isn't the whole thing a gamble anyway?
We definately don't want a pup until June or after and I would prefer to spend the money on exactly the right pup i just don't know if it's out there of how to find it without letting people down!
I hope i'm not rubbing anyone up the wrong way with my questions, I just feel a little lost and dissapointed. I never thought it would be this complicated.

helen

Hi Helen
we took the wrong direction when we started and it has taken us a good while to get the dogs we really want on the end of the lead, if you do hedge your bets and approach a couple of breeders just be honest and say you have left your details with a few breeders and will let them know if you get a puppy elsewhere, that is all I'd ask, I would advise if you are going to the Champ show on Sunday buy a catalogue and look at the dogs which most appeal to you (rather than just those who are winning on the day as this can change dramatically from show to show) all the telephone numbers are there for you if the people are too busy to talk on the day just give them a ring.
It is a gamble when you buy a puppy as so much can change as they grow but a knowledgeable breeder will point you in the direction of the puppies most likely to be of show standard and if they value their reputation they will not want you in the show ring with a puppy they consider below par as they will have their name on it. If you want to e mail me again I can let you have details of the kennels I would approach now I have more knowledge of the breed. (we are the kennel in Mansfield) and don't worry about offending anybody, I would rather people do their homework and get what they really want.

HI

Thanks for that, I feel a little better as boxacrazy has put me in touch with someone who might be able to help.
My main worry is messing people around as I can imagine it is awfully frustrating.

Anyway this experience has certainly opened my eyes.

Thank you all

Helen

IMO if you want to show always pick quality over colour. If you are set on a particular colour then you are making the task of finding a good show prospect doubly difficult.