Hi all,

We recently adopted the most beautiful Northern Inuit girl.  (Rescue of course.)  I have been doing a lot of research into the breed and noticed that there was a lot of "tension" I shall call it, about the breed being a wolf-dog or wolf hybrid and being a registered breed or not.  Also, if the Northern Inuit is not a recognised breed, then howcome all insurance companies have them registered as a legitimate breed of dog within the UK and not a cross breed?

This makes absolutely not one shred of difference to me as she is the perfect dog in the house, loves my son to pieces, thinks the sun sets when my cavalier sits down and yes, sleeps in our bed.

I was just interested as there seems to be a difference wolf-dog and wolf hybrid.  (Apparently what the Inuit sled-dog society call the Northern Inuit breed.)  Sorry, being very nosey :-)

Many Thanks

A wolf hybrid is the offspring of a breeding between a wolf  and a dog. Not sure about a wolf-dog but I'm guessing its a dog that looks like a wolf but isn't bred from one, like a husky or something... I'm probably wrong but I'm sure someone clever will answer you soon!

This is difficult because even those that are called wolf-hybrid rarely are or if they are the amount of wolf is so small as not to count. The term Inuit is confusing because it means Eskimo and there is indeed an Eskimo Dog, but those who are sold as Wolf-hybrids or Inuit dogs, are cross breeds of one type or another, often one of the dogs being a member of one of the large northern spitz breeds and something like a GSD. So regardless of what the insurance companies say as far as I know there is no such breed recognised by any countries Kennel associations. But if you know different.....

From the research I have done, what I have now gathered, a wolf-dog has some sort of wolf ancestory, be it little, medium or large abouts in it's blood lines.  But although the term "wolf hybrid" has been used many times (Namely by the Inuit sled dog society) this term has not been explained as to the reasonings behind why they use it. 

When looking at state laws (in USA) and DEFRA (In UK) they say a wolf or wolf hybrid (classed as game) must be kept in a primary and secondary enclosure blah blah blah.  Surely this sort of accusation can only be detrimental to the breed?

Yes my Northeren Inuit dog does look like a wolf, but there are no wolf traits in her as far as I can see.  She doesn't try escape, totally the opposite, I can see the GSD lines in her with her excellent trainability and eagerness to please (most definately not a wolf trait.)

What I meant by her being a recognised breed, was I know they are not yet registered with the KC, but surely they are now starting to be recognised by the doggie world and going down as a UK breed with the insurance companies is a step in the right direction for this breed.  I mean, aren't existing lines being bettered all the time by breeders, so why has there been such an uproar about introducing a new breed of dog?

Please, I am not trying to be controversial and don't wish to be thought of as such.  I am really purely curious about the carry-on with the breed.  It wouldn't make a difference to me if she was crossed with 20 different dogs, she is still my little girlie and she loves us as much as we love her.

Sure your lass is lovely, but perhaps you can tell me what a Wolf-dog or Intuit is. It has to be breeding true to type to be a recognised breed, have a reasonably wide gene pool all breeding true to the same type before any kennel association would even think of recognising them as a breed. I am no expert but as far as I can make out GSD's, Mals and other breeds are still being used, if that is so then they are crossbreeds or mongrels.

As far as I know, a Northern Inuit is a mixture of Husky, Malamute & GSD (and the Inuit Sled dog?- i think), they are no longer bred from the aftermentioned, and are now bred from their own lines of dogs that have been created.  Apparently the society is trying to attain pedigree (KC to be more specific) status.

As my topic says, I am also at a loss as to the difference between wolf-dog and wolf hybrid (I think a wolfdog is a dog that is bred to look like a wolf and has wolf ancestory in its lines - either, small, medium or large quantities.)  I was just concerned about the stigma that is attached to wolf hybrids and wondered on what grounds some people refer to Northern Inuit's as Wolf Hybrids (they clearly are not.)

Thank you for you information, can you then tell me how they differ from dogs already recognised like the Malamute, and if they don't what is the point.

Their tempraments differ hugely as well as what they look like.  Aska is a lot smaller than a Malamute and not as jumpy as a Husky, she is eager to please which is definately not a trait of the aforementioned dogs.  She is just wolfy looking.  When our family decided to adopt a wolf type dog, we did a lot of research as I don't want to be another addition to the unwanted dogs problem in the UK.  I met some Huskys and Mal's and not only are there different features, but different personality traits. (this is where the GSD breeding becomes noticable.)

.....and are all the dogs like yours?

Northern Inuits?  Do you mean that they are all the same?  If so, yes, as far as I can see.  There is a breed standard and their tempraments and look does not vary greatly (except for normal personality as any dog.)

Have you actually owned Huskys and Mal's to be able to tell me where your dog differs from them or are you just repeating what you have been told. And how many Northern Inuits have you owned to be able to tell me that they have a different behaviour to other northern spitz

I used to work somewhere (in england) where the owner had 2 wolf-hybirds - that is, they were the direct offspring of the mating of a wolf and a dog.  She was aways saying that legally they were a wild animals, so came under some sort of wild animals Act.  Is this what DEFRA are referring too?
(they were quite friendly by the way - one used to live in my bedroom, with several others dogs).

No, I haven't owned a Husky or a Mal (see previous posts), but I don't take dog ownership lightly WHICH is the reason I decided not to get any of the previous breeds after much research and going out my way to meet different dogs.  You purely have to see the Northern Inuit breed for yourself to realise the difference in temprament, you obviously have not met any Northern Inuits. 

I did not open this topic as a debate, but purely for my informational purposes about the diffences between the wolf-dog and wolf-hybrid and why is the Northern Inuit declared a wolf-hybrid.

(P.S.  I don't appreciate being patronised by saying "or are you just repeating what you have been told".)

I have seen 3 all bred by different people and they were all different in looks and temperament, I am not patronising you just want to know from what experience you are speaking, be it personal or hearsay, sorry if you find that an odd or patronising request, but under the circumstance it is an important. The impression of the owner of one example is not helpful if you are trying to form an opinion of the whole.

Do you mean the Inuit, or all 3 of the breeds we have discussed?  Naturally there will be personality differences between all dogs within the same breed.  It is the same as humans, some are bolder, some are timid.  But I think in general they do all conform to the standard that has been set.  From the Inuits I have seen, they seem to have a general appearance, but I have heard of pups being bred and sold on as another breed!  (Here comes the problems with it not being registered.)

I mean dogs being named as Inuit, they are so different I can't see how anyone can call them a breed. It does not matter to their owner they are their dogs but to request registration is as far as I can see nonsense.

Have a look as the northern inuit society webpage.  It is rather informative.

www.northern.inuits.7p.com....how can you say these dogs are uniform in type...I just don't see it,sorry.Some look like huskies some like poor GSD's most look like cross breds...
Archer

Probably because there are some GSD's on the photos?!  I think we should just agree to disagree as it is quite obvious that new breeds are not welcomed (even if it is bettering a breed) until they have a crufts medal. 

I would like to re-iterate that I did not open this topic to debate the relevance of any breed, but purely to understand the diffence between wolf-dog & wolf-hybrid and why the Northern Inuit is classified (slanderously?) as wolf-hybrids.

Hi Space, as you are not able to stand back and look at what we are saying then perhaps you are correct, there is not a lot of point in talking about it.

There is no need to be funny about it. You are obviously not impressed with "New breeds"  being intoroduced into the doggie circle.   If you have a problem with me owning a Northern Inuit / mongrel please take it to PM.

I no longer wish to discuss the breed with you, please refer to my topic for instruction.

space
there is one dog on there which is quite obviously a GSD...it is in a photo with another dog which I assume is an inuit.All the others are represented as inuits...and all are very different.
Its got nothing to do with crufts or any other show..
Archer

Yes I agree they clearly are not of a uniform type and look mainly like gsd or husky crosses rather than a distinct breed. One thing on the breed standard is how can you have a leg length that is slightly longer than overall height?

Jesse

To be honest, I would say that the reason the advertise them as Wolf Hybrids, when they are not, is to sell them to folks who like the idea of having a wolf

Simple really :)

They don't sell them at all as wolf hybrids at all, they has been (sladnerously?) refered to as wolf hybrids as far as I am concerned.

Why do they mention the word 'wolf' if they don't want them to sound fierce and dangerous?

here :)

To me a dog should not be claimed to have wolf in it if it does not :( Either it does or it doesn't.
I have a wolf hybrid who is now 10 years old, and can view him by clicking on my name. His Father is a Timber Wolf and his mother is a Rotti. Thats a hybrid as long as one parent is wolf and the other is dog. he does live in the house with us, he is gentle loves people and other animals. Plays fine with our ferrets and won't even harm our rats or our birds. I have even heard them called wolf dog because of one parent being wolf and the other being dog.

Hi, if the description of your dog is correct and you live in the UK, then I hope you are in possession of a Dangerous Wild Animal Licence?  If not and you have your wolf hybrid living indoors or out walking the street with you then you take the risk of being in very serious trouble. How ever much you love your companion, the Council will not have a sympathetic ear if they are doing their job correctly and you mention timber wolf.  

Pat
No I do not live in the UK, thank goodness (sorry folkes) but I don't believe in banning animals. Its not the animals but the people on the other end.

As for my hybrid he is alot gentler then alot of dogs I have met around here. He slept in my daughter's room until he can no longer climb stairs do to arthritis and hipdysplasia, his loving companion was a shepherd collie who passed away 2 years ago. I trust him totally if I didn't he would not be part of my family cause I would never go for any animal trying to be on top ever (if you can't trust your animal what kind of pet are they?),had him fixed at almost 2 years old. He's one of those animals that you would see laying on the front porch basking in the sun. Check out the Czech Wolfdog and the saarloos wolf dog. As for being mean any animal can be mean just depends  on how you raise them.

All dogs originated from wolves people just made them to what they are today. I would never condem any animal or breed just because of what its genetic makeup is. I do take him out for many walks, now we are only down to a block do to his problems, and people come up to see him all the time even children. I have had people ask to use him for studd and said no. I'm very fortunate to have an animal as big as him and as gentle as him and able to share my life with such a beautiful animal. Sadly I don't think he will be around to much longer since his old bones are starting to get tired. I would be more worried about my boston's then him :D He is also obedience trained, he gets on very well with other dogs and loves puppies and kittens. We were looking after a cat for a year she was already a year or so old and her and taz were the best of friends. Just seeing him play with the ferrets is very cute he just lays there and lets them crawl all over.

If you do a search on here you will see all the discussion about hybrids/wolfcross/wolfdogs

I take it from your post you do not approve of certain breeds, one to their own. I never put myself or my animals in any situation that could have a bad outcome, just common sense.

Edit: If I didn't keep him indoors or outdoors where would I keep him: serious trouble ?  He lived outdoors most of his life came indoors at age 8 and well fully house trained. 
You are entitled to your opinion no matter how misguided it is :)

Yes I have done and it is propergander by people who are enthused by what they think they have achieved, but I am asking is what have they achieved. As I said I have seen 3 dogs all presented to me a Intuits and the were so different it was silly to think of them as one 'breed' they were cross breeds, nothing wrong with that as long as you do not try to say they should be recognised.

Space

I think you may find that ALL dogs have wolf traits simply because the dog (whatever breed) and wolf share THE SAME ancestor.  It has been scientifically proven by tracing DNA back approx. 12,000 years.  There is only 0.2% DNA difference and dogs share most of the 15 ways of communicating that wolves have.  Jumping up at people in greeting, circling to make a nest, barking, chasing, digging, hunting, pouncing, play-bowing etc etc is wolf behaviour - all wolf traits in our dogs.

Most dogs have been domesticated to live amicably alongside people and do not bite (hopefully) the hand that feeds them but dogs are, in essence, immature wolves.    Some LOOK more wolf-like than others but dogs and wolves have many commonalities.

Hi space,
Was looking at some websites about wolfdogs and wolf hybrids las tnight so couldnt beleive when i found you discussion.  There is no difference, they are the same breed.  Its just they were always called wolf hybrids before.  That however wasnt a true description because hybrid is meant for the breeding of two different species, whereas the dog and wolf are the same species, therefore wolfdog is now what they are increasingly called.  You should have a look at some of the american sites on wolfdogs / wolf hybrids there is a lot more information on the history of the breed as they are more widly owned and breed over there.  Hope this helps answer your question. ;o)

Space, I found this and think its worth reading.

Sorry, cant do links

http://www.dogstuff.info/northern_inuit_ripoff.html

Jessie

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/gwd/wolfdogs/wolfdogs.pdf

Excellent link, Anwen.

Hi ritchab, could you please post the addresses of those websites you checked out.
I was intrigued by their use of the word "species".
In my ferret days, we were taught that a ferret was a domesticed version of the polecat, and the polecat the ferrets wild ancestor, but still two 'different' species. So, when a ferret was mated with a captive polecat, the offspring was called polecat hybrid.
But, according to what youve learnt, the ferret experts would be wrong, as the ferret and polecat would be same species, so you couldnt call offspring "hybrid", but it would be called "polecatferret"?.
Is the word species being defined as members of the same family, ie, all canines are the same species?
So is a cat the same species as a lion, a donkey the same species as a horse?
I'm confused! 

Sorry kiwi, can remember the site i was on last night as i got to it through links when looking up rare breeds, however I had a quick search and found a site that says the same as the one i read last night -  ''Hybrid Wolves, Wolf-Dog Crosses, Wolfdogs, by our definition are canines of 'recent' wolf heritage. As Canis lupus (wolf) and Canis lupus familiaris (dog) are the same species, "hybrid" is an inaccurate outdated term. It is most appropriate to refer to more recent wolf x dog crosses as 'wolfdogs'. ''
Put wolf dunn in your search engine and it will bring it up, i wish i had kept a note of that site i was on last night as it gave you a full hisoty of the breed and beautiful pics. ;o(

Hi ritchab,
According to the DEFRA link posted by Anwen, wolves and domestic dogs are still classified as different species, although closely related, so a cross between them is still called a hybrid. Such a cross requires the owner to have a Dangerous Wild Animals licence, and so does all its offspring in perpetuity.
:)

Thanx ritchlab (spelling?), i'll check it out.

You might want to also look at Czech wolfdogs and saarloos wolfdog (Dutch kennel club).  The wolfdog is a recognised breed in these countries.  :)

Dogs and wolfs are classed as two separate species, canis familiaris and canis lupus, hence why we have wolf hybrids. However I believe there is some recent thinking that they are actually the same species and this is probably where ritchlab is getting this from.

Edited to add that according to the wolf soc uk dogs are now a subspecies of the grey wolf - canis lupus familiaris

http://www.wolfsociety.org.uk/education/general/about-the-wolf.htm